Tyrod Taylor 2.0?

[GunnerBill]

One hopes not. The guy is who he is, does some really good things and at times some bad things. Why this is such a difficult concept to grasp is mind boggling.

 

Could be worse. We could have traded for Andy Dalton.

 

I do wonder if you look on Bengals forums and Dolphins forums (when Tannehill is healthy) are they having these same debates with the same passion and need to portray everyone as being on one hill or the other? Because they are the two Quarterbacks Tyrod is right there with for me.

[oldmanfan]

 

I do wonder if you look on Bengals forums and Dolphins forums (when Tannehill is healthy) are they having these same debates with the same passion and need to portray everyone as being on one hill or the other? Because they are the two Quarterbacks Tyrod is right there with for me.

Would be interesting to see. But this has been standard fare for Bills fans since some felt Johnny Green should replace Tommy O'Connell in 1960. Other than Kelly the starting Bills QB has always been the wrong guy in the eyes of many fans. Lamonica was better than Kemp. Harris better than Shaw. Marangi better than Fergy. Flutie better than Johnson. Losman over Bledsoe. Anyone over EJ. Holcomb over Edwards. And now Peterman over TT. Just that having an Internet chat room exacerbates it now; back in the day we'd argue army the fence after school. And if a guy actually did move up and beconecstarter he'd immediately get ripped because he was now the starter.

 

And there were ever some who wanted Reich over Kelly. Go figure.

[Scott7975]

What transpired in that thread was the product of many posters insulting and making personal attacks...the same thing that goes on here now, and not by me.

 

I've now come to learn that this is the way of many, and I usually just bow out instead of retaliate.

 

Instead of condemning and looking down on others here, maybe you should reflect upon you're own conduct and ask yourself why you continue this kind of posting.

 

I'm simply trying to help you not only become a better poster, but maybe a better person as well.

Lets not act all innocent. You always came into a thread with an aggressive nature. No one had said anything to you because well.. you hadn't even been in a thread yet. There you were on your very first post insulting people. Then you would play victim. That's why people would "attack" you. You know, I know, anyone BBMB knows it except for maybe xRUSHx because he is just as hateful about Taylor as you.

 

I will say that you have toned down a lot here and haven't done so as much lately.

 

You're trying to help people become better posters and persons? LMAO all hail our Savior Crusher. He will show us the light! Get over yourself.

[Bills Pimpin']

Tyrod was closer to 2.0 than I thought he would be last week. Not "franchise", although I'm not 100% sure what that means other than you kinda know when you look at one. I think McD knows what he has and is going to see how it plays out. Depending on injury, the growth of the WR core and especially any growth of Taylor towards 2.0 and the Bills could be in the hunt for the playoffs deep into the season. Also it possibly could be the year the AFC east is up for grabs. NE defense looks terrible and Brady is 40.

All Bills fans should be excited about what they saw last week and the direction the team is headed regardless of what they think of Taylor. To let your opinion of his talents ruin an entire season of Bills football because you are afraid they are going to win too many games is foolish. I would rather root for TT2.0 and the playoffs until it's our of reach.

[r00tabaga]

Very well said man and I agree 100%, you have a wonderful night as well.

Of course you agree with Crusher....lol

Edited September 14, 2017 by r00tabaga

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

I do wonder if you look on Bengals forums and Dolphins forums (when Tannehill is healthy) are they having these same debates with the same passion and need to portray everyone as being on one hill or the other? Because they are the two Quarterbacks Tyrod is right there with for me.

Can you imagine this board if Tyrod had Dalton's stat line last Sunday?

[Blokestradamus]

Can you imagine this board if Tyrod had Dalton's stat line last Sunday?

 

Every thread would be started by SaviorPeterman.

[JohnC]

 

I do wonder if you look on Bengals forums and Dolphins forums (when Tannehill is healthy) are they having these same debates with the same passion and need to portray everyone as being on one hill or the other? Because they are the two Quarterbacks Tyrod is right there with for me.

The issue isn't whether TT is on the same hill or not as it is whether the hill he is on is high enough to get you where you want to go. If Taylor is as good or better than Tannehill or Dalton is that good enough? Without a doubt he is a good option at qb right now, and we are fortunate to have him at this point. But if your aspirations are to be a team that not only qualifies for the playoffs but also win in the playoffs then is he good enough?

 

Whaley wanted to cut Taylor altogether. McDermott was willing to keep him on the condition that he took a pay cut and reduced length of contract. What does that tell you? Taylor is a very good bridge qb until a better option of qb is attained. If this franchise makes it a lesser priority to find a more impactful qb it will continue to meander along the path of mediocrity.

[JerseyBills]

I see this has descended into the usual spat. Are we going to have to go through this every game?

This thing descended days ago. Apparently I can't come on the teams message board I loved since I can remember, and point out improvements in our 3rd year starting QB in a new scheme , without getting disrespected , laughed at, etc.

 

I'm no expert, I'm not on a college or NFL sideline but I played ,study and love this game.

[GunnerBill]

The issue isn't whether TT is on the same hill or not as it is whether the hill he is on is high enough to get you where you want to go. If Taylor is as good or better than Tannehill or Dalton is that good enough? Without a doubt he is a good option at qb right now, and we are fortunate to have him at this point. But if your aspirations are to be a team that not only qualifies for the playoffs but also win in the playoffs then is he good enough?

 

Whaley wanted to cut Taylor altogether. McDermott was willing to keep him on the condition that he took a pay cut and reduced length of contract. What does that tell you? Taylor is a very good bridge qb until a better option of qb is attained. If this franchise makes it a lesser priority to find a more impactful qb it will continue to meander along the path of mediocrity.

 

 

I meant the hill comment as in people have to be portrayed as pro-Tyrod or anti-Tyrod. I don't consider myself as either, but am regularly accused of thinking he is terrible. I wouldn't have paid Tannehill big money or Dalton big money and I wouldn't pay Tyrod big money. I didn't want to keep him on the old contract. It was too much money committed for too long a time to a guy I don't think the Bills should be standing pat with. On the halved deal it is an absolute no brainer to have Tyrod Taylor here. He is our best Quarterback (though I remain unconvinced after a 2nd watch of the game that I saw "progression" against the Jets... it was a solid game but not a whole new Tyrod) and he should start as long as this season is live.

 

The problem for me is the debate rarely exists in those nuanced terms. On this board, and it has definitely got more noticeable since BBMB closed, everyone has to be pro or anti. It doesn't actually add anything to the debate.

[JohnC]

This thing descended days ago. Apparently I can't come on the teams message board I loved since I can remember, and point out improvements in our 3rd year starting QB in a new scheme , without getting disrespected , laughed at, etc.

 

I'm no expert, I'm not on a college or NFL sideline but I played ,study and love this game.

There is a solution to responding to juveniles: Don't! Be selective and respond to people who have something to say and say it in a reasonable manner. Just ignore the people who are attacking the poster rather than responding to the points being made. It seems that there is now more back and forth dueling going on without any advancing or exchanges on the points being brought up.

 

Kirby and even the irascible Badol (Badol is in an oddball category onto itself ) often go back and forth with me but their responses are replete with good points. Don't allow yourself to be enticed into the mud. Pick and choose and be smart enough to disengage when it is called for. When you are drawn into others' childish tit for tat game you are the one who ultimately decides to play the lowly game.

[TakeYouToTasker]

[JohnC]

 

 

I meant the hill comment as in people have to be portrayed as pro-Tyrod or anti-Tyrod. I don't consider myself as either, but am regularly accused of thinking he is terrible. I wouldn't have paid Tannehill big money or Dalton big money and I wouldn't pay Tyrod big money. I didn't want to keep him on the old contract. It was too much money committed for too long a time to a guy I don't think the Bills should be standing pat with. On the halved deal it is an absolute no brainer to have Tyrod Taylor here. He is our best Quarterback (though I remain unconvinced after a 2nd watch of the game that I saw "progression" against the Jets... it was a solid game but not a whole new Tyrod) and he should start as long as this season is live.

 

The problem for me is the debate rarely exists in those nuanced terms. On this board, and it has definitely got more noticeable since BBMB closed, everyone has to be pro or anti. It doesn't actually add anything to the debate.

You bring up a good point regarding the conditions you wanted him under. This new staff was willing to retain him under the right conditions. They got a deal done under their own parameters. It was a good deal for TT considering the lackluster market for him and it was a good deal for the organization. In general, it was a well reasoned and executed decision. This qb decision fit within the framework of the bigger picture. That type of smart strategic and tactical thinking is reason for optimism.

 

Without wanting to indict everyone from the BBMB room it had to be a raucous spit balling room. A lot of noise with little listening going on.

[grb]

Whaley wanted to cut Taylor altogether.

 

Not to quibble, but that statement is based on absolutely nothing. Yes, there was a feeding frenzy of speculation in the media saying just that, but no one got a direct quote, or a background quote, or a deep background quote, or anything like a reliable second-hand deep background quote. Someone was being very careful with what was said. If I had to speculate, this was the chain of events :

 

1. Post-15 season : Whaley signs a deal with Taylor which is a simultaneous bet TT is either a spectacular success or flop. If the former, Whaley has him locked down long-term at cheap rates. If the latter, Whaley can dump TT after the season. Taylor signs the deal because it's his first shot at real money.
2. Post-16 season (a) : Taylor was neither spectacular or a flop. Whaley does not want a long-term commitment, but had no foreseeable alternative. Renegotiation was the obvious choice
3. Post-16 season (b) : The dance begins. The Bills have to write TT off as yesterday's news without actually insulting someone they look to sign

As for Taylor, his payout this season is equal to - or slightly more - than his old deal. Believing in himself, he thinks he'll do better with a future contract over the old one. He wasn't going to get the long-term guaranteed money of the old contract on the open market, but probably could have gotten short-term money equal to - or slightly more - than the Bills deal. He thought the Bills were a better vehicle this year to show himself for the contract to come. Time will test his judgment. Overall, once the Bills decided they couldn't commit long-term, the deal worked-out was pretty good for both parties.

Edited September 14, 2017 by grb

[xRUSHx]

What transpired in that thread was the product of many posters insulting and making personal attacks...the same thing that goes on here now, and not by me.

 

I've now come to learn that this is the way of many, and I usually just bow out instead of retaliate.

 

Instead of condemning and looking down on others here, maybe you should reflect upon you're own conduct and ask yourself why you continue this kind of posting.

 

I'm simply trying to help you not only become a better poster, but maybe a better person as well.

That thread was disgusting on all parts and that thread showed how nasty it can get when posters gang up on someone. That thread is now gone and so is BBMB. Crusher I used to enjoy many of your threads I can only hope this board will get a chance to see some of the hard work you used to put in to make them. I also understand why you backed off making them when you have a gang pushing to provoke and discredit you. Stand strong brother, we all have to learn this is a message board filled with many opinions but the gang up stuff needs to stop.

[JerseyBills]

There is a solution to responding to juveniles: Don't! Be selective and respond to people who have something to say and say it in a reasonable manner. Just ignore the people who are attacking the poster rather than responding to the points being made. It seems that there is now more back and forth dueling going on without any advancing or exchanges on the points being brought up.

 

Kirby and even the irascible Badol (Badol is in an oddball category onto itself ) often go back and forth with me but their responses are replete with good points. Don't allow yourself to be enticed into the mud. Pick and choose and be smart enough to disengage when it is called for. When you are drawn into others' childish tit for tat game you are the one who ultimately decides to play the lowly game.

I guess it's just sort of mind boggling to me how certain posters could have such distain towards a guy who is 15-14 , with 49 TD and 13 int! Who absolutely has faults but has so many positive attributes as well and how they relentlessly zero in on the negatives.

I just can't wrap my head around this mentality towards a team they love.

Thanks for the wise words though. Go Bills!!!

[xRUSHx]

Of course you agree with Crusher....lol

And of course you would add to it, pile on right?

Lets not act all innocent. You always came into a thread with an aggressive nature. No one had said anything to you because well.. you hadn't even been in a thread yet. There you were on your very first post insulting people. Then you would play victim. That's why people would "attack" you. You know, I know, anyone BBMB knows it except for maybe xRUSHx because he is just as hateful about Taylor as you.

 

I will say that you have toned down a lot here and haven't done so as much lately.

 

You're trying to help people become better posters and persons? LMAO all hail our Savior Crusher. He will show us the light! Get over yourself.

SMH

I have a opinion of Tyrod just like everyone else, sorry it's not the same put him on a pedistol as the COT.

 

Crusher is a very good poster and turned mean on BBMB when constantly attacked by the same group that is posting in a gang attack almost as bad as before.

 

We all love our Bills, I have been a season ticket holder since the Kelly days but to post on here and expect the garbage makes it much harder to want to put any work in making any threads. I miss the good old days and the really good posters that left BBMB because of this gang, I just hope this board doesn't fall the same way with the gang leading the way. We all have a opinion and have a right to express it.

Edited September 14, 2017 by xRUSHx

[oldmanfan]

That thread was disgusting on all parts and that thread showed how nasty it can get when posters gang up on someone. That thread is now gone and so is BBMB. Crusher I used to enjoy many of your threads I can only hope this board will get a chance to see some of the hard work you used to put in to make them. I also understand why you backed off making them when you have a gang pushing to provoke and discredit you. Stand strong brother, we all have to learn this is a message board filled with many opinions but the gang up stuff needs to stop.

Can I suggest again that you each get rid of the martyr, victim mentality and discuss football rationally? When you make claims as your compadre did that you want TT to fail so you can rub it in the faces of others on the board you are asking for negativity back.

 

You go on and on about how terrible the guy is. TT is not likely to ever be one of the great QBs. I understand that, and would support them looking at drafting one as high up in round 1 as they can next year. But the bottom line is that the offense does fairly well when he is behind center. They were in the top half of offenses last year, and while one can focus on deficiencies like throwing receivers open those who don't like him refuse to accept his strengths like his mobility and his keeping defenses of balance with his running ability. He is by far not one of the worst QBs in the league.

 

Maybe instead of blindly criticizing anyone who looks at the guy with anything less than a jaundiced eye you should just look objectively at things. In this thread there are individual posts criticizing plays where the guy made things happen, the throw to Matthews being among them. That is simply looking for any way to be critical, even when the criticism isn't justified. That kind of behavior from those who do not him as QB is self explanatory; it is simply an agenda at that point.

 

And I would say the same as those who praise him to the hills for a play a QB should make.

[likei've]

Can I suggest again that you each get rid of the martyr, victim mentality and discuss football rationally? When you make claims as your compadre did that you want TT to fail so you can rub it in the faces of others on the board you are asking for negativity back.

 

You go on and on about how terrible the guy is. TT is not likely to ever be one of the great QBs. I understand that, and would support them looking at drafting one as high up in round 1 as they can next year. But the bottom line is that the offense does fairly well when he is behind center. They were in the top half of offenses last year, and while one can focus on deficiencies like throwing receivers open those who don't like him refuse to accept his strengths like his mobility and his keeping defenses of balance with his running ability. He is by far not one of the worst QBs in the league.

 

Maybe instead of blindly criticizing anyone who looks at the guy with anything less than a jaundiced eye you should just look objectively at things. In this thread there are individual posts criticizing plays where the guy made things happen, the throw to Matthews being among them. That is simply looking for any way to be critical, even when the criticism isn't justified. That kind of behavior from those who do not him as QB is self explanatory; it is simply an agenda at that point.

 

And I would say the same as those who praise him to the hills for a play a QB should make.

I mean, to be fair this is the most articulated and coherent you've been in the entire discussion.

 

You were just as quick to blindly jump on anyone that had any criticisms of Taylor.

 

You can't really get on people for doing exactly what you were doing in the beginning of the thread.

 

Criticisms aren't unjustified just because you believe they are.

 

I'm willing to meet in the middle. I'm giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to believe that the Bills when into their shell because they were playing the Jets and not that they don't trust Taylor.

 

I hope I see them "unleash" Taylor like they said they would. Because if going into a shell, completely losing offensive momentum and relying on a late game int is unleashing then I don't know what that means.

 

Against good teams that can score (and I believe Panthers are) I want to see them score and keep it going aggressively, even with a lead.

[oldmanfan]

I mean, to be fair this is the most articulated and coherent you've been in the entire discussion.

 

You were just as quick to blindly jump on anyone that had any criticisms of Taylor.

 

You can't really get on people for doing exactly what you were doing in the beginning of the thread.

 

Criticisms aren't unjustified just because you believe they are.

 

I'm willing to meet in the middle. I'm giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to believe that the Bills when into their shell because they were playing the Jets and not that they don't trust Taylor.

 

I hope I see them "unleash" Taylor like they said they would. Because if going into a shell, completely losing offensive momentum and relying on a late game int is unleashing then I don't know what that means.

 

Against good teams that can score (and I believe Panthers are) I want to see them score and keep it going aggressively, even with a lead.

I would argue that I have never in this board or on the BBMB ever blindly jumped on anyone who ever has any criticism of TT. I in fact have shared critiques of him when I feel it's justified. Last year's opener for example I bluntly stated TT stunk. Ask transplant how many times I've challenged him on his inventing stats to try and put TT in a positive light.

 

In this thread there have been numerous postings that I would say criticize the guy for making a play. And those I will debate. May I humbly suggest that your contention that I always do whatever is a symptom of what is wrong with postings on this and many other boards: you generalize in a black and white way without really reading what has been posted. I believe in gray; answers generally lie between the extremes.