Bills "can't wait to unleash Tyrod Taylor"

[thebandit27]

 

*nods*. I think what folks are asking, Bandit, is what's the comparator passer? Are we talking plays Drew Brees wouldn't leave on the field? Sam Bradford? Andy Dalton? Cam Newton? Mariota? Glennon? Hoyer? The point being if the argument is "he's just a backup", it's reasonable to ask, not just whether the top tier guys would leave those throws, but whether the bottom tier would leave them.

 

 

Up through this past week, I would've called it the "Alex Smith" standard; throws that I expect Alex Smith to see and make (then Smith went ahead and played the game of his life against NE and blew up my baseline ).

 

It's arbitrary of course, but that's kind of my measuring stick.

 

 

 

This is true, but I also did see a couple plays on Sunday where he did step up into the pocket and make a contested throw instead of bailing out wide/taking off. So there is some progress.

 

I would have really liked to see the Bills make a serious push to improve the OL, esp. the right side. I think it would help Taylor a lot if he were able to have more faith he'd have a pocket to step up into.

 

Maybe it's a mental thing; sometimes he shows a willingness to step up, but it's not often enough IMO. Were I to characterize it in platitudes, I'd say he lacks a feel for the pocket.

[Direhard Fan]

92 QB rating Sunday. He is our Quarterback. Except it and be happy about it. It's called a positive additude.

[thebandit27]

92 QB rating Sunday. He is our Quarterback. Except it and be happy about it. It's called a positive additude.

 

 

 

 

92 QB rating Sunday. He is our Quarterback. Except it and be happy about it. It's called a positive additude.

 

I don't see anyone that isn't accepting of it; it's okay to accept that he's the best we've got right now while also believing that the team will need to upgrade at the position next offseason if they want to build toward long-term success.

[teef]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see anyone that isn't accepting of it; it's okay to accept that he's the best we've got right now while also believing that the team will need to upgrade at the position next offseason if they want to build toward long-term success.

i have no idea why so many people have trouble with this. taylor isn't nearly as awful as some like to make him out to be, but an upgrade is certainly needed, (and i don't say that as a bash on taylor at all).

Edited September 12, 2017 by teef

[GG]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see anyone that isn't accepting of it; it's okay to accept that he's the best we've got right now while also believing that the team will need to upgrade at the position next offseason if they want to build toward long-term success.

 

That's the rub. It was clear that the Bills are using 2017 as the final evaluation to see if TT can be a franchise QB. I didn't see anything that came close to answering that question on Sunday and the evaluation continues.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I don't see anyone that isn't accepting of it; it's okay to accept that he's the best we've got right now while also believing that the team will need to upgrade at the position next offseason if they want to build toward long-term success.

I think we are pretty much aligned as far as where we see the team going, from a building standpoint. Upgrade is the key word there, and I think that will be more difficult than many around these parts want to believe.

[thebandit27]

I think we are pretty much aligned as far as where we see the team going, from a building standpoint. Upgrade is the key word there, and I think that will be more difficult than many around these parts want to believe.

 

Agreed...it's not as simple as it is for a team like Cleveland last year, where literally anyone would be an upgrade over what they had.

 

If nothing else, Tyrod has proven himself as a competent starter; a guy that's capable of putting a team in position to be competitive throughout the season.

 

To expect any rookie--even a high draft pick--to come in and match his level of competence as a veteran with over a half-decade of NFL coaching under his belt would be asking a lot.

[Kelly the Dog]

Tyrod is not an elite QB or what is normally called a franchise QB. That's obvious. But people seem to want him to take more chances which will yield more yards and scores, and almost assuredly lead to more turnovers. It's like they want the benefit but not the downside.

 

I want him to play a little better, too. I think he leaves plays on the field. I think a lot of his completions arent good passes so the receiver doesnt get as many YAC that he could or should. I think he doesn't go through all of his progressions at times, and he won't throw to a guy that is covered. But his receivers for the most part have been very pedestrian, except when Sammy was healthy, which was about never. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for not turning the ball over, which is clearly what the coaches have wanted him to do since he became a starter.

 

You can get more scores. But you will get more INTs. It may not be worth it considering we already score enough. We could score more, sure, that would be great. But scoring what we do AND not turning the ball over doesnt get nearly enough credit here.

[GG]

Tyrod is not an elite QB or what is normally called a franchise QB. That's obvious. But people seem to want him to take more chances which will yield more yards and scores, and almost assuredly lead to more turnovers. It's like they want the benefit but not the downside.

 

I want him to play a little better, too. I think he leaves plays on the field. I think a lot of his completions arent good passes so the receiver doesnt get as many YAC that he could or should. I think he doesn't go through all of his progressions at times, and he won't throw to a guy that is covered. But his receivers for the most part have been very pedestrian, except when Sammy was healthy, which was about never. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for not turning the ball over, which is clearly what the coaches have wanted him to do since he became a starter.

 

You can get more scores. But you will get more INTs. It may not be worth it considering we already score enough. We could score more, sure, that would be great. But scoring what we do AND not turning the ball over doesnt get nearly enough credit here.

 

But this is the Tyrod that you know, and that Tyrod is good for max 9 wins, because to get 10 or more wins requires a couple of come from behind victories late in the game, which is something that he's only done once (twice if you give him the defensive collapse vs Miami). That's not the kind of guy you build a team around, and to my eye I didn't see him taking that next step.

[bobobonators]

 

My statement was more meant as a cautionary note than a defense.

 

My main beef with Tyrod's play has been that he bails from clean pockets too soon and too often fails to see the open man. My comment about leaving plays on the field is more symptomatic of these two traits, and like I said, we saw it again on Sunday (along with the things that he routinely does well, like extending plays with his legs and being willing to take the easy checkdown yardage on early downs).

 

 

While I absolutely don't deny that he leaves plays on the field, as you say, again if there is no point of comparison, what is the purpose of brining it up? What if you analyzed every single starting QB in the NFL and broke down their plays and it turned out that Tyrod in reality was within the top 15-20 QB's in the league at leaving the fewest plays on the field? What if Tyrod was in the top 5 in reality at leaving the fewest plays on the field? Maybe Tyrod would be ranked 32nd in the NFL at leaving fewest plays on the field.

 

My point is, b/c you have absolutely no point of comparison for your statement that he leaves plays on the field, the entire exercise is jaded and pointless b/c in reality the few plays he leaves on the field may actually be better than 50% of the QBs in the league (or it may not be).

 

In essence, you're building a "cautionary tale" about something for which you have no sensible idea if it requires caution or not.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Where I'm coming from, I am not prepared to tell you who is better than Tyrod Taylor.

 

 

Then saying he's a backup in the NFL is a totally meaningless statement. That's a cop out. If he's a backup, by the definition of backup it means there are 32 guys who play QB better than he does.

Name them. Go.

[NewMexBills]

TYGOD will take us there!

[GG]

 

Then saying he's a backup in the NFL is a totally meaningless statement. That's a cop out. If he's a backup, by the definition of backup it means there are 32 guys who play QB better than he does.

Name them. Go.

 

That's an equally inane comparison given the dearth of good QB play. The goal is to be a good enough team to consistently get in the playoffs and win once you get in. Tyrod doesn't strike me to be that kind of QB, even though he can be a "starting" QB for about half the teams.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

That's an equally inane comparison given the dearth of good QB play. The goal is to be a good enough team to consistently get in the playoffs and win once you get in. Tyrod doesn't strike me to be that kind of QB, even though he can be a "starting" QB for about half the teams.

There's like 4 teams in the entire league that fit that description right now.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

But this is the Tyrod that you know, and that Tyrod is good for max 9 wins, because to get 10 or more wins requires a couple of come from behind victories late in the game, which is something that he's only done once (twice if you give him the defensive collapse vs Miami). That's not the kind of guy you build a team around, and to my eye I didn't see him taking that next step.

I just don't believe that I guess. With Schwartz's defense and either of the last two year's offenses, I think we make the playoffs. Another thing people don't realize about TT's stats are just how bad the defense was the last couple years. We rarely had good field position. They rarely came up big and changed momentum. We always had to go the length of the field.

[section122]

 

Up through this past week, I would've called it the "Alex Smith" standard; throws that I expect Alex Smith to see and make (then Smith went ahead and played the game of his life against NE and blew up my baseline ).

 

It's arbitrary of course, but that's kind of my measuring stick.

 

 

 

Maybe it's a mental thing; sometimes he shows a willingness to step up, but it's not often enough IMO. Were I to characterize it in platitudes, I'd say he lacks a feel for the pocket.

 

Alex Smith and Sam Bradford were 2 guys that made me go wow this weekend. Bradford looked fantastic last night.

 

 

That's an equally inane comparison given the dearth of good QB play. The goal is to be a good enough team to consistently get in the playoffs and win once you get in. Tyrod doesn't strike me to be that kind of QB, even though he can be a "starting" QB for about half the teams.

 

Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger have skewed this for most fans imo. Those 3 have dominated the AFC playoffs and made people feel that a great qb is necessary to get to and win the super bowl. Recent Super Bowl QBs include Russel Wilson (who got there and won where he passed for 103, 215, and 206 yards on his way), Cam Newton who Tyrod outplayed last year, Peyton Manning on his last legs, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick, Matt Hasselback, and Rex Grossman. It takes a whole team to win a super bowl not just a qb. Peyton Manning is the perfect example of a transcendent qb who routinely couldn't win in the playoffs because he dragged subpar teams with him. Drew Brees can't even lead his team to a winning record!

[thebandit27]

 

 

While I absolutely don't deny that he leaves plays on the field, as you say, again if there is no point of comparison, what is the purpose of brining it up? What if you analyzed every single starting QB in the NFL and broke down their plays and it turned out that Tyrod in reality was within the top 15-20 QB's in the league at leaving the fewest plays on the field? What if Tyrod was in the top 5 in reality at leaving the fewest plays on the field? Maybe Tyrod would be ranked 32nd in the NFL at leaving fewest plays on the field.

 

My point is, b/c you have absolutely no point of comparison for your statement that he leaves plays on the field, the entire exercise is jaded and pointless b/c in reality the few plays he leaves on the field may actually be better than 50% of the QBs in the league (or it may not be).

 

In essence, you're building a "cautionary tale" about something for which you have no sensible idea if it requires caution or not.

 

Let me see if I understand this...

 

You're essentially saying that unless I'm going to commit to doing an All-22 breakdown of every throw from every NFL QB every single week, that I cannot make a comment about Tyrod's missed opportunities?

 

Sorry, but that's just slightly unreasonable IMO.

 

I think, on the other hand, that for me to say that I've watched enough NFL QBs both live and on All-22 to say that guys like Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, and Sam Bradford don't miss those opportunities is hardly going out on a limb.

 

For example, here's a breakdown of Alex Smith from Thursday night:

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/11/16286126/alex-smiths-all-22-vs-the-patriots-so-that-was-pretty-good

 

You're welcome to disagree with me if you like, but I find the measuring stick that you're asking for to be a bit much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Re: Cam Newton - he is about 200x the QB Tyrod Taylor is and I stand by that statement.

 

Re: 4 1sts for Luck - I don't recall saying that and it would shock me if I actually did. I would never endorse such a move. In fact, I've stated that Andrew Luck is overrated many times.

 

Re: Drew Brees' career stats will put him into the HOF on his first try. That has nothing to do with his name. It has everything to do with his accomplishments, including being a Super Bowl Champion.

 

You know, Gug, if you want to "stand by" a statement, the usual procedure is to cough up some sort of objective justification. Stats, film evaluation, something.

 

Otherwise it's just Dior 200x better than Ecco. You little Fashionista, You.

[GoBills808]

 

But this is the Tyrod that you know, and that Tyrod is good for max 9 wins, because to get 10 or more wins requires a couple of come from behind victories late in the game, which is something that he's only done once (twice if you give him the defensive collapse vs Miami). That's not the kind of guy you build a team around, and to my eye I didn't see him taking that next step.

Yep. Agree 100%.

 

But let's not pretend he didn't play a fine game on Sunday, albeit against an inferior opponent.

 

Then saying he's a backup in the NFL is a totally meaningless statement. That's a cop out. If he's a backup, by the definition of backup it means there are 32 guys who play QB better than he does.

Name them. Go.

I feel pretty comfortable saying there aren't 32 QBs who play better than he does any given Sunday.

 

The main point, however, is that QB for the Bills is a position in need of an upgrade, and that shouldn't really be controversial given the way the league is moving.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

That's an equally inane comparison given the dearth of good QB play. The goal is to be a good enough team to consistently get in the playoffs and win once you get in. Tyrod doesn't strike me to be that kind of QB, even though he can be a "starting" QB for about half the teams.

 

And that goal is a totally fair statement to make - I think Taylor is about a mid-rank NFL QB, the kind who might get you into the playoffs if your D is strong, but maybe not take you very far once you're there.

The kind Alex Smith has been, since he was traded to KC. I think the Bills should be turning over every rock and watching this year's crop of college QB with exquisite care in the hope of turning up 1-2 guys with a chance to be better.

 

But that's a very different discussion than saying Taylor's an NFL backup, or crap, or whatever the word of the day may be.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan