Gugny Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Some people just need to watch more football. Whether you like it or not Tyrod is the highest rated QB that the Bills have ever had!! Is he the best QB that they have ever had? Of course not but he is a solid NFL starter. Debating that is beyond ridiculous at this point. He's 16-14 and has 3 times as many TDs as turnovers, led 2 top 10 scoring and DVOA offenses. If you don't believe he is the long term answer that's fair. If you think that he's less than a solid NFL starter in a league starved for QBs you aren't watching enough football. Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical.
dave mcbride Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical. Huh? Brees is great and should never be judged by one game. It has to be done over a long stretch, which is what Kirby is doing. The Vikes may have the best defense in the nfl, btw, although I know Seattle's is good too.
mannc Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical. Do you have any evidence that Tyrod's stats are inflated by garbage time numbers to a greater extent than other QBs' stats? Or do you just think all QB stats are junk?
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical. Except that's not a "great" game for anyone, it's a below average game for Brees considering they don't run well or much, AND, Tyrod getting his stats in garbage time has been debunked here several times with real applicable stats.
Gugny Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Huh? Brees is great and should never be judged by one game. It has to be done over a long stretch, which is what Kirby is doing. The Vikes may have the best defense in the nfl, btw, although I know Seattle's is good too. I'm not judging Brees, the QB. I'm judging Brees, the QB tonight. He sucked. Just like Brady sucked on Thursday - but he's still the best ever and likely the best this year. Brees was terrible, but his stats - without watching the game - show that he was awesome. And most of his stats were against a soft D who was protecting a big lead. EDIT: And 6 years in the league - including the last 2 as a starter - is a long enough stretch to judge Tyrod Taylor. And yesterday proved it. Except that's not a "great" game for anyone, it's a below average game for Brees considering they don't run well or much, AND, Tyrod getting his stats in garbage time has been debunked here several times with real applicable stats. 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT is a great game for any QB on any Sunday since the beginning of professional football. Edited September 12, 2017 by Gugny
dave mcbride Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 I'm not judging Brees, the QB. I'm judging Brees, the QB tonight. He sucked. Just like Brady sucked on Thursday - but he's still the best ever and likely the best this year. Brees was terrible, but his stats - without watching the game - show that he was awesome. And most of his stats were against a soft D who was protecting a big lead. EDIT: And 6 years in the league - including the last 2 as a starter - is a long enough stretch to judge Tyrod Taylor. And yesterday proved it. 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT is a great game for any QB on any Sunday since the beginning of professional football. This argument strikes me as a category error. Kirby is judging a player on a 30 game stretch, and you're judging a player on one.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical. There are 32 starting spots in the league. I would welcome a logical argument and list of the 32 better options. On a side note I agree on the misleading nature of Brees from tonight. I love Brees and think that he is the most underrated QB of this generation. His numbers are ahead of Brady. Edited September 12, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Gugny Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 This argument strikes me as a category error. Kirby is judging a player on a 30 game stretch, and you're judging a player on one. I'm simply showing how stats can be deceiving.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 I'm not judging Brees, the QB. I'm judging Brees, the QB tonight. He sucked. Just like Brady sucked on Thursday - but he's still the best ever and likely the best this year. Brees was terrible, but his stats - without watching the game - show that he was awesome. And most of his stats were against a soft D who was protecting a big lead. EDIT: And 6 years in the league - including the last 2 as a starter - is a long enough stretch to judge Tyrod Taylor. And yesterday proved it. 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT is a great game for any QB on any Sunday since the beginning of professional football. No it is not. At all. 284 yards on 37 passes is not great. At all. 1 TD is not great. It's not even average. That's 16 a season.
Gugny Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) There are 32 starting spots in the league. I would welcome a logical argument and list of the 32 better options. On a side note I agree on the misleading nature of Brees from tonight. I love Brees and think that he is the most underrated QB of this generation. His numbers are ahead of Brady. Where I'm coming from, I am not prepared to tell you who is better than Tyrod Taylor. I am saying that Tyrod Taylor isn't good enough to help make the Buffalo Bills a good team. I'm basing that on watching him hold the ball too long, not find open receivers, bail on plays too early and come up empty in crunch time (with the exception of the TEN game in which we were behind SOLELY because he was so horrible for the first 3.5 quarters) for the past two full seasons. He is what we we thought he was ... and what Baltimore knew he was ... a high quality backup. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'll also add that there are MANY teams with crappy starting QBs. I just want the Bills to raise their bar higher and find someone better. EDIT: I agree with you re: Brees. I think he's incredible. No it is not. At all. 284 yards on 37 passes is not great. At all. 1 TD is not great. It's not even average. That's 16 a season. If Tyrod Taylor had 284 yards with a TD and no INT, half of this board would go blind from jerking off so much. Give me a break. Edited September 12, 2017 by Gugny
Kelly the Dog Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Where I'm coming from, I am not prepared to tell you who is better than Tyrod Taylor. I am saying that Tyrod Taylor isn't good enough to help make the Buffalo Bills a good team. I'm basing that on watching him hold the ball too long, not find open receivers, bail on plays too early and come up empty in crunch time (with the exception of the TEN game in which we were behind SOLELY because he was so horrible for the first 3.5 quarters) for the past two full seasons. He is what we we thought he was ... and what Baltimore knew he was ... a high quality backup. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'll also add that there are MANY teams with crappy starting QBs. I just want the Bills to raise their bar higher and find someone better. EDIT: I agree with you re: Brees. I think he's incredible. If Tyrod Taylor had 284 yards with a TD and no INT, half of this board would go blind from jerking off so much. Give me a break. A) that's not true. There are just as many Tyrod heretics. And 2) So what. That doesn't make it a great game. 300 yards sometimes is not a great game. One TD is almost never a "great" game. Not to mention that his team scored 19 points, which is not a great game.
QCity Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 It's impossible to grade QB play with a single number, and there are enough variables in the QB formula to support whatever cognitive bias is being pushed. If Tyrod is your starting QB you better be looking for another one, and thankfully it appears our front office is doing just that.
Bill_with_it Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Where I'm coming from, I am not prepared to tell you who is better than Tyrod Taylor. I am saying that Tyrod Taylor isn't good enough to help make the Buffalo Bills a good team. I'm basing that on watching him hold the ball too long, not find open receivers, bail on plays too early and come up empty in crunch time (with the exception of the TEN game in which we were behind SOLELY because he was so horrible for the first 3.5 quarters) for the past two full seasons. He is what we we thought he was ... and what Baltimore knew he was ... a high quality backup. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'll also add that there are MANY teams with crappy starting QBs. I just want the Bills to raise their bar higher and find someone better. EDIT: I agree with you re: Brees. I think he's incredible. If Tyrod Taylor had 284 yards with a TD and no INT, half of this board would go blind from jerking off so much. Give me a break. Tyrod had 329 yards passing 3 tds and no int during wk 16 last year. Edited September 12, 2017 by Bill_with_it
Gugny Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Tyrod had 329 yards passing 3 tds and no int during wk 16 last year. Yes, he did. And I will always cite that game - and the SEA game - as his two good games as a starter. I give credit where it's due.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Why are you using some random secondary website? Go to NFL.com and click on the play by play for the game and do it yourself. Don't be lazy and post some link that could easily be wrong. Go count it up. It doesn't take long. pro-football-reference isn't "some random secondary website". It's widely used, well respected, and has all sorts of good (and accurate) information. Support is also excellent, have had a couple problems when they've made changes, reached out, and gotten a prompt response and a fix. BTW could just be me, but counting through a game from the play-by-play can be inaccurate, especially if other stuff is going on and one gets distracted. Edited September 12, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
transplantbillsfan Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Credibility of PFR > You Hey man... everyone makes mistakes, including PFR, apparently
transplantbillsfan Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Are you going to be extra mad when Tyrod has two huge stinkers in the next two games? Of course we all will be especially if (and it likely will) result in losses. We're friggin die hard Bills fans, aren't you? The better question maybe if you and a few others will be extra mad if Taylor plays really well in the next two games I think the most vile and loathsome folks on here are those who are actively rooting against Taylor, even going so far as rooting for injury. And there are clearly a few of those. Are you one of them? Dude. No offense, but you don't know of what you speak. PFR - which is an offshoot of the legendary www.baseball-reference.com (the best sports stats pretty much ever - e.g., bWAR), is the best football stat site around. Not even close, actually. Nfl.com pales in comparison, and I never consider using it given PFR's existence. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not. Do yourself a favor and check out the suite of sites it operates. You can start here for background: http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/the-sublime-simplicity-of-baseball-reference-com-20151028 . This too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball-Reference.com . Pfr is run by the same people. Nfl.com is for amateurs, in my opinion . Oh --and pfr has game play-by-play for every game in which such records were kept. I don't doubt that PFR is a nice, often reliable website. But they aren't officially a part of the NFL. When I said that other poster was wrong, I was looking at the play by plays on the NFL's official website. Are you honestly telling me that I should trust PFR's play by play more than the NFL's play by play? And if that's what you're really telling me, when I have time I'll have to just go to my game pass subscription and rewatch all the third downs. But boy oh boy, it sounds really suspect to say that PFR has a more reliable play by play breakdown than the NFL's official website Kirby - I think you're a great poster. Seriously. But here's a very recent, real life example, of how stats can be deceiving. The first MNF game tonight - Drew Brees was not good. With 4 minutes left, he had a little over 200 yards and no TDs. He ends up 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT. Great game, right? No. Garbage time, fluff, crap stats in a loss. This explains Tyrod's great rating, his "protecting the ball," his AWESOME rushing numbers .... when all of those things are usually because he sucked for the first 3 quarters of the game ... just like Brees did tonight. You can't just go by stats and that horrific QB rating. It's just not practical. Sounds like you're implying that much of Brees's career stats have been in garbage time. I mean, the Saints have sucked for years now, haven't they? That guy better not go in the goddamn Hall of Fame!
transplantbillsfan Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 I'm simply showing how stats can be deceiving. Yeah, Brees has had a lot of garbage time stats. That guy sucks! 27/37, 284 yards, a TD with no INT is a great game for any QB on any Sunday since the beginning of professional football. Holy crap. You're nuts.
transplantbillsfan Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Yes, he did. And I will always cite that game - and the SEA game - as his two good games as a starter. I give credit where it's due. Weird that you used the word "great" for a 284 yard, 1 TD and 0 INT game but "good" for a 300+ yard game with 3 TDs and 0 INTs. Truthfully, really makes you seem like a Troll. I don't think you're one, but you look like one here.
QCity Posted September 12, 2017 Posted September 12, 2017 Holy crap. You're nuts. What would you call that performance?
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