dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 It's not a real stat Dave. It's another way of looking at a game or a player but it's not an official statistic.It is most definitely factored into total qbr, and thus a real stat for many. Check it out: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Huh? Please explain your logic. It makes no sense to me. It seems pretty obvious that one could adjust the completion percentage by including passes dropped that should have been caught. It is actually factored into the newer total qbr rating, the ooint being to provide a more accurate and true measure of the qb's performance. All the qb can do is deliver the ball; if a good throw is dropped, he shouldn't be assigned blame for it. Dave...nothing can be official or real when it doesn't happen. Drops are part of the game, just like holding, pass interference, illegal motion, illegal player downfield etc.... It's a "what if" stat. You're not going to see an adjusted completion percentage stat in the record books.
bobobonators Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Tyrod played a nice game. If you take back the drop in the end zone it was really good. I always judge a QB on a few things (because it's all that matters): TD to turnover, 3rd down and RZ efficiency. He played well in all of those areas. It wasn't perfect but it was a good and effective game. That was a solid "B" from me. Agreed. Id give him a B+ for the game.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 It is most definitely factored into total qbr, and thus a real stat for many. Check it out: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating The QBR isn't an official stat. It's an ESPN statistic.
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) Dave...nothing can be official or real when it doesn't happen. Drops are part of the game, just like holding, pass interference, illegal motion, illegal player downfield etc.... It's a "what if" stat. You're not going to see an adjusted completion percentage stat in the record books. Then why do most f the major stat sites feature total qbr now? Pfr and espn all feature it. It is part of the statistical landscape now, for real. Edited September 11, 2017 by dave mcbride
4_kidd_4 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 "Total quarterback rating (abbreviated as total QBR or simply QBR) is a proprietary statistic created by ESPN Inc. in 2011 to measure the performance of quarterbacks in American football" It's just another formula 'made up' by ESPN. I don't buy all these nonsense attempts at number manipulation. Simple as that. "ifs" and "maybes" and "context of the throw" factored into "statistics" seem way too overboard to me.
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) "Total quarterback rating (abbreviated as total QBR or simply QBR) is a proprietary statistic created by ESPN Inc. in 2011 to measure the performance of quarterbacks in American football" It's just another formula 'made up' by ESPN. I don't buy all these nonsense attempts at number manipulation. Simple as that. "ifs" and "maybes" and "context of the throw" factored into "statistics" seem way too overboard to me. I am WELL aware of where total qbr comes from. Yet answer me this: why is that the best -- meaning far crunchier and analytical -- stat sites like FO and PFF factor in drops to to their qb evals? Basically, every every modern stat approach to qb play factors it in. Edited September 11, 2017 by dave mcbride
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Then why do most f the major stat sites feature total qbr now? Pfr and nfl.com all feature it. It is part of the statistical landscape now, for real. See Kidds response. Total QBR is an ESPN stat.
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) See Kidds response. Total QBR is an ESPN stat. See my most recent post above and soend some time on football outsiders. More importantly, i can't actually believe I'm arguing about drops being a valid indicator of a qb's performance. It's patently obvious that they are. Edited September 11, 2017 by dave mcbride
4_kidd_4 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 For the clicks? For statboys? I don't use those sites. I watch the game and if necessary, check out box scores. To each his own.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 I am WELL aware of where total qbr comes from. Yet answer me this: why is that the best -- meaning far crunchier and analytical -- stat sites like FO and PFF factor in drops to to their qb evals? Basically, every every modern stat approach to qb play factors it in. Because those are FO and PFF. It's another measurement but it's not an official stat. Let me know when someone wins an MVP based on his PFF stat. PFF can also be very flawed. You can keep arguing your point but these aren't official stats. Rodgers completed 24-of-35 passes for 333 yards and five touchdown passes against zero interceptions, good for a 138.5 passer rating. But PFF, which grades every player’s performance on every play according to its more nuanced model, saw it differently. Take a look at how Rodgers, who graded a negative 0.8 for the game, stacked up against other QBs in Week 3: http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/pff-aaron-rodgers-negative-grade-packers-chiefs-mnf-092915
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) For the clicks? For statboys? I don't use those sites. I watch the game and if necessary, check out box scores. To each his own. Then we are talking past each other. Not a fan of the attempt to cast my point aside by referring to clicks and implying I am a "statboy." That is argument through insult, which isn't really arguing at all. Like you said, though, to each his own. Because those are FO and PFF. It's another measurement but it's not an official stat. Let me know when someone wins an MVP based on his PFF stat. PFF can also be very flawed. You can keep arguing your point but these aren't official stats. [/size] http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/pff-aaron-rodgers-negative-grade-packers-chiefs-mnf-092915 Let me ask you this re official v non-official: what do you think actual nfl teams use when they evaluate qb play? You think they don't factor it in? They definitely do, and stressing the point that it's not "official" seems to me like a legalism to escape the import of the point. Edited September 11, 2017 by dave mcbride
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 See my most recent post above and soend some time on football outsiders. More importantly, i can't actually believe I'm arguing about drops being a valid indicator of a qb's performance. It's patently obvious that they are. Okay if you want to go that far, then a stat about a QB missing an open WR or throwing a bad ball should be counted too. Lets make that an "official" stat. That is a valid indicator of a QB's performance?
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Okay if you want to go that far, then a stat about a QB missing an open WR or throwing a bad ball should be counted too. Lets make that an "official" stat. That is a valid indicator of a QB's performance? Huh? We have a stat for that: it's called an incompletion. In adjusted completion pct, it's also called an incompletion.
4_kidd_4 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Wasn't trying to insult anyone. Didn't think "statboy" was an offensive term. Sorry to violate your safe space?
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Total QBR or not, he only got sacked once or twice- threw the ball away a few times on the run, had a couple batted down early, and had some drops. Other than that... he had a great pair of throws to matthews, the play to oleary was nice, and added some first downs with his legs. While i agree the jets will be bad, they didn't look inherently bad at any one facet of the game. Just young all over, and don't have a particularly threatening passing attack.
mjt328 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Why can't we just accept Tyrod Taylor for what he is. Fans are so concerned about being "right", they are completely blind to anything he does that runs contrary to their opinion. Taylor isn't going to put the team on his back and carry us to the playoffs. He's limited and has lots of flaws as a passer. But he's also 100X better than anything we ever saw from JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, etc., etc.
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Wasn't trying to insult anyone. Didn't think "statboy" was an offensive term. Sorry to violate your safe space? "Safe space" is a term meant to insult too, fwiw (and please don't argue that it isn't), but whatever. I have never had much tolerance for argument through insult, but i do recognize that it goes on all the time here. Bottom line: we disagree on certain statiscal measures, which is fine.
Crusher Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Each drop has to be evaluated on it's own. If you are putting all on the receivers, or all on the QB, you are wrong. I believe adjusting for drops gives the QB the benefit of the doubt that the pass should have been caught, when that's surely not always the case.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Then we are talking past each other. Not a fan of the attempt to cast my point aside by referring to clicks and implying I am a "statboy." That is argument through insult, which isn't really arguing at all. Like you said, though, to each his own. Let me ask you this re official v non-official: what do you think actual nfl teams use when they evaluate qb play? You think they don't factor it in? They definitely do, and stressing the point that it's not "official" seems to me like a legalism to escape the import of the point. You know what I think NFL Teams use to evaluate a player? Film. Film tells the whole story. Eric Wood was talking about this on WGR last year and thinks PFF is a bunch of BS. He said if he pulls but the guard is pushed in the backfield and he can't get to his block....he would be graded negatively even though it wasn't his fault. Do you know where PFF is evaluated? It's evaluated in England with the "Experts" watching broadcast footage. Yep, it's a legit stat. PFF has been criticized by the analytics community regarding the accuracy and veracity of its ratings. [7] In contrast to the purely quantitative ratings released by sources like Football Outsiders, TeamRankings, and numberFire, PFF uses qualitative and opinion-based grading as the root of their ratings. As such, the ratings are not truly quantitative and could be seen as being prone to bias, poor sample sizing, or other issues.
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