Magox Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 McDermott and Beane are trying to build a team that can beat the Jets........ And only the Jets. Yes, that is exactly what they are trying to do. Good post.
SoTier Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) By giving the young guys role models within the locker room to show them the way. These guys also happen to be the best players on the team. No, they have not "devastated" the young talent on the team. That's ridiculous and more drama queen ranting. Seriously??? "Show them the way" to what? Where to buy tickets for playoff games? Unless they played for other teams that went to the playoffs, that's the only way any of the Bills veterans will ever attend one. Edited September 6, 2017 by SoTier
billsfan89 Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 The Bills are either soft tanking or competitively rebuilding. Lets look at the big free agents they let go. 1- Gilmore- No doubt the Pats* over paid Gilmore but Gilmore was a good player at a premium position. Gilmore is the 8th highest paid corner in the league at 13 million a year. That's a bit over an overpay as I would rank Gilmore somewhere in the 15-23 range at corner. Ideally he would be paid somewhere between 9-10 million per-year. But he hit the market at the right price and got paid. Also there is no word on if the Pats* offer was the highest or did he take a little less to go to a winning situation? If the Bills had to pay 15 million per-year to keep him I would have passed. But not overpaying a corner who might not be a fit for the system isn't a move intentionally getting worse. 2- Robert Woods- Woods is the 23rd highest paid receiver this year at 6.8 million per-year. He is nowhere close to being the 23rd best WR in the NFL and his production doesn't come close to justifying that level of pay. Overall this one was sensible to let him walk. This one was a smart move. 3- Mike Gillislee- I think Gillislee is a good back and I would have retained him. But this was a move more so born out of getting that draft pick and finding that you could replace a backup running back much easier than you can acquire an extra mid round pick. Then you have the big trades. No doubt the Bills got less talented players but that doesn't mean they will get less production. Jordan Matthews vs. Sammy Watkins - This is a clear downgrade in talent. But if Watkins can't stay on the field for more than 6 games and Matthews plays all 16 at a above average level then who is the more productive player? It is clear that long term the Bills don't want to risk their seasons on Watkins injuries and they don't want to be in a position to have to pay or franchise Watkins after 1 season if he stays healthy. Matthews will be much more affordable to sign long term and is in general more reliable. EJ Gains vs. Darby- Darby once again is much more talented but not exactly a fit for the system. Gains fits the scheme more. So once again the Bills might have a player that while not as talented will be much more productive. Reggie Ragland- Not a fit for the system at all and coming off an injury a 4th round pick was not a bad return at all. Overall I think the trade down draft day and the trades have made the Bills roster roughly about as competitive as it was before those trades but with the added benefit of having a boat load of draft picks to make a big move for a QB or simply build up the roster.
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Seriously??? "Show them the way" to what? Where to buy tickets for playoff games? Unless they played for other teams that went to the playoffs, that's the only way any of the Bills veterans will ever attend one. You honestly think these guys are the reason the Bills haven't been successful over the years? Kyle Williams is the one holding the franchise back?
BuffaloBillyG Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Not really that hard to see the process unfolding. The Bills are the 3rd oldest team in the NFL I believe I read. So you have a core of older players here to 1. Keep the appearance of being competitive 2. Help teach the young guys. Loading up on draft picks and releasing players that are either of questionable fit, healthy or ethics they are building a team that can grow together. Buffalo isn't playing for the AFC East title even had they kept Watkins, Darby ect ect. Not with Brady and Belichick. So you build for the future when they aren't there anymore. If you can't beat them then be the team that replaces them. Brady is 40. He looks good still but when father time catches him he will deteriorate fast. Rex Ryan was shooting for playoffs. One wild card appearance...then what? McBeane is building something that can compete on a high level for years. As long as they draft well they are setting themselves up for sustainable success.
Gugny Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 The opportunity to tank left the building when Rex was fired. You aren't going to intentionally tank a season in the first year of the head coach who you want to be here for a long time. That would leave everyone with a bad taste in their mouths - players and fans alike. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp. It's obvious that this team is rebuilding (only six drafted players remain from the previous front office) while simultaneously leaving the foundation of veteran leadership (Kyle, Lorenzo, Wood, Shady, Tolbert, Dimarco, Incognito, Ducasse, etc.) who all fit the criteria of what Beane and McDermott want to establish within the organization. Since when does a team have to tank in order to rebuild? Can you honestly establish a winning culture by purposely trying to lose in Year #1? There is actually no better time to tank, than in a rookie HC and rookie GM's first season. Talk about a Mulligan. They're gonna try to win games. They're just not good enough to win very many. So no worries about the culture. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 I remember before the draft, Bill Polian was hyping OBJ. Still think Sammy can have a great career if he stays healthy and has a decent qb. and has a QB who uses him effectively and throughout the entire 60 minutes week in week out. You honestly think these guys are the reason the Bills haven't been successful over the years? Kyle Williams is the one holding the franchise back? why is it I don't want to read any further
Cash Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Good article by Rodak - pretty good to see our disparate moves laid out like that. I don't think the Bills are tanking. But I'm not sure what they are doing. (Side note: a lot of posters and media have said that the Bills have a plan, but no one's ever spelled out what the plan is, especially not the Bills. I still want to know what "the process" actually is.) Usually when a team is rebuilding, they cut expensive older players and bring in a ton of young players. The Bills haven't done that yet. They have the 3rd or 4th oldest team in the NFL (Rodak's article sez 4th oldest starting lineup; I've seen 3rd oldest roster elsewhere) - that usually would suggest a team built to win now without worrying about the future. Most of the players they've recently gotten rid of were 25 or under - these are guys that generally get better in the next couple years. I think some of those (Darby, Ragland) were mostly about scheme fit, but it's still a little odd to see a 32-year-old kicker signed, a 31-year-old center extended (especially after matching an offer sheet for his young backup), etc. Move-by-move, I don't have a lot of problems with what the Bills have done. I think letting Gilmore and Woods walk were both correct decisions. I think the Darby trade was a nice haul for a guy who doesn't really fit your system. I don't really like the Watkins trade, but intellectually I think it was probably the right call. But so far, the individual moves don't really look like part of a greater plan to me. If you know you're going to let 2 talented starters walk in free agency, then maybe wait a year to go splurging on kickers and terrible OGs, so you can get a bonus 3rd and 4th round pick next year. We'll see. Barring a historically embarrassing performance, I do think that Beane/McDermott should be given 4+ years to try to make this work. I'm sick of losing talent because it doesn't fit the scheme, or because a guy "didn't buy in". Give McBeane's vision (if they have one, beyond saying "the process" a lot) time to succeed or fail on its own merit.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Not really that hard to see the process unfolding. The Bills are the 3rd oldest team in the NFL I believe I read. So you have a core of older players here to 1. Keep the appearance of being competitive 2. Help teach the young guys. Loading up on draft picks and releasing players that are either of questionable fit, healthy or ethics they are building a team that can grow together. Buffalo isn't playing for the AFC East title even had they kept Watkins, Darby ect ect. Not with Brady and Belichick. So you build for the future when they aren't there anymore. If you can't beat them then be the team that replaces them. Brady is 40. He looks good still but when father time catches him he will deteriorate fast. Rex Ryan was shooting for playoffs. One wild card appearance...then what? McBeane is building something that can compete on a high level for years. As long as they draft well they are setting themselves up for sustainable success. I disproved this "fun fact" earlier. 10 guys over 30, 26 guys under 25 and 17 in their prime.
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 People continue to overrate draft position with regard to landing a franchise quarterback. If we've learned anything over the decades, it's that no one can predict how a quarterback performs in the NFL. It's a complete and utter crap shoot. So be as good as you can be this season and use both first-round picks on quarterbacks even if they're only the third and fourth best in the class. Because no one really knows. Then let those two and Peterman battle it out throughout the entire 2018 offseason and preseason and pick one. If he's successful, trade the other one. Couldn't have said it better myself!! Well done!!!
BuffaloBillyG Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 I disproved this "fun fact" earlier. 10 guys over 30, 26 guys under 25 and 17 in their prime. http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2017-edition/ I mean, I'm sure you averaged all the ages for the Bills then did the other 31 teams for comparison...but this is where I believe that "fact" comes from...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 I'm starting to feel like these guys might rather lose with their own guys, then win with someone else's
T-Bomb Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) I don't think the Bills are tanking. But I'm not sure what they are doing. (Side note: a lot of posters and media have said that the Bills have a plan, but no one's ever spelled out what the plan is, especially not the Bills. I still want to know what "the process" actually is.) Why would they tell anyone? Do companies go around giving away their patents or financial strategy plans? Why do fans and the media feel the Bills owe them a detailed plan of action? Edited September 6, 2017 by T-Bomb
vorpma Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Jimmy Johnson tanked in 1989 after inheriting the Cowboy mess; Jerry Jones cleaned house from top to bottom and the organization needed it (Bills 2017)! Bill Polian once stated that the Bills hung onto fan favorites even though it hurt the team in the short and long term. If anyone posting really thinks the Bills, at any time since the end of the 2016 season were playoff contenders, you are smoking crack. For 17 years I have seen childish optimism overcome by realism in December; this house cleaning is needed. I would rather root for the current path ending up 2 - 14 then to watch the ineptness and accepted mediocrity of the last 17 years and end up a putrid 7 - 9 with the old postings - "we are so close." We are not now and have not been!
row_33 Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 They are doing precisely what they have said they're doing. They are looking at both short term and long term success. through the right end of the telescope?
vorpma Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 I'm starting to feel like these guys might rather lose with their own guys, then win with someone else's Wow, very insightful!
YattaOkasan Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 There is actually no better time to tank, than in a rookie HC and rookie GM's first season. Talk about a Mulligan. Close. If you're gonna tank I would do it the last year with a HC (i.e. someone you intend to let go) like the jets have done twice now (rex and bowles). First time they had a much better season after the tank.
Max Fischer Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Jimmy Johnson tanked in 1989 after inheriting the Cowboy mess; Jerry Jones cleaned house from top to bottom and the organization needed it (Bills 2017)! Bill Polian once stated that the Bills hung onto fan favorites even though it hurt the team in the short and long term. If anyone posting really thinks the Bills, at any time since the end of the 2016 season were playoff contenders, you are smoking crack. For 17 years I have seen childish optimism overcome by realism in December; this house cleaning is needed. I would rather root for the current path ending up 2 - 14 then to watch the ineptness and accepted mediocrity of the last 17 years and end up a putrid 7 - 9 with the old postings - "we are so close." We are not now and have not been! Agree 100%
blargo Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 I read the article and like every Rodak article it slants very negative for the Bills. Are the Bills tanking this year? No, why keep Shady, Tyrod, Ritchie, Glenn and Clay on Offense, take cap hits and play younger people. The D the last 2 years was unexpectedly bad. The secondary was thin, after we lost A Williams we had so many busted coverages it was sad, and by the end of each year the run D could not stop anyone. We were 8-8 and 7-9 the last 2 years. The question in my mind is will the D be much better than the last 2 years? Will the O continue to run well? Will the pass O be better with a traditional O coordinator? Does Tyrod continue to not produce a ton of turnovers in a new O? If we get some of this we stay in the 7-9 and 9-7 range. If the D is still bad against the run and the O takes a step back we could be 3-13 to 6-10 range. So that is a huge range IMO from 3 wins to 9 wins. Could we get 10 wins? Sure with lots of luck and breaks and a top 5 D and the same type of O we had the last 2 years. Is that likely, not IMHO. I think we stay in that 7-9 and 8-8 range this year. Tough schedule and new systems.
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