Doc Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 I think if you're going to count dropped passes as completions to get a more accurate completion percentage, you should discount poor passes that receivers make great catches on. There were several. Zay made at least two. Reilly made 2-3. Shorts made 1-2. Just off top of my head. Plus the int that was dropped. Two of those. I watched Peterman in the last 3 pre-season games and didn't see any catches that required superhuman effort from the WR's. And if you're requiring that a QB get the ball perfectly to a WR every time, you're setting an impossibly high standard. Their job is to get the ball within a receiver's catch radius and the receiver's job is to catch it.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 The increase is minimal, but lets not act like Peterman's accuracy is anywhere near any of those guys. Right? ....at this particular juncture with a rookie having played in a couple of pre-season games, that was NEVER the comparison......the discussion was focused on arm strength paranoia or lack thereof....nor was there ANY inference regarding his accuracy versus two top ten GOAT'S.....no need to fire your cannon arm at me......
cover1 Posted September 2, 2017 Author Posted September 2, 2017 ....at this particular juncture with a rookie having played in a couple of pre-season games, that was NEVER the comparison......the discussion was focused on arm strength paranoia or lack thereof....nor was there ANY inference regarding his accuracy versus two top ten GOAT'S.....no need to fire your cannon arm at me...... I think youre forgetting his college career, how his OC consistently hid his arm strength with boundary throws AND not to mention his sub 60% completion percentage. Accuracy (Montana and Brady comparison) usually doesn't improve in the NFL...Cannon? I'm no Jeff George brother! lol
Doc Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 I think youre forgetting his college career, how his OC consistently hid his arm strength with boundary throws AND not to mention his sub 60% completion percentage. Accuracy (Montana and Brady comparison) usually doesn't improve in the NFL...Cannon? I'm no Jeff George brother! lol He completed 61.1% of his passes at Pitt.
NoSaint Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 He completed 61.1% of his passes at Pitt. While true, I'm not sure it changes his point much, if at all. Especially paired with not having a lot of low percentage deep throws or boundary passes
Doc Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 While true, I'm not sure it changes his point much, if at all. Especially paired with not having a lot of low percentage deep throws or boundary passes I wasn't disputing the lack deep or boundary throws. Just the completion percentage.
Rockinon Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 So, he has nice touch but when he needs to zing one in there.....not so much. That's what I take from the breakdown. He seems a little hesitant with those throws. Could just be he is still improving. He doesn't look weak physically. Hopefully, he still is finding his ceiling. Kid's a rookey. I wouldn't be too worried about it.....yet.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 I think youre forgetting his college career, how his OC consistently hid his arm strength with boundary throws AND not to mention his sub 60% completion percentage. Accuracy (Montana and Brady comparison) usually doesn't improve in the NFL...Cannon? I'm no Jeff George brother! lol ....wholeheartedly agree that a collegiate QB's true talents may be hidden under the auspices of his collegiate HC......college ball is no longer the NFL's minor league as far as developing kids to fit the NFL mode....it's all about what fills seats and gets boosters writing BIG checks....but the days of Bradford at $50 mil guaranteed and Stafford at $41 mil guaranteed are over with the rook salary cap which mitigates owners taking a flier on a 1st rounder unprepared.....an NFL Minor League ala NFL Europe or MLB, AHL & NBA styles would give more kids an opportunity......why not have it with injury call ups like these other leagues?.....it is ALL about money.....Goodell is getting a massive extension and his goal is to have this be a $25 billion dollar juggernaut by 2027, double from today...yet no developmental league, roster expansion or better benefits for the maligned, crippled and broke players who laid the foundation for today's greedmeisters, which includes owners and players...
Steptide Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 One of the knocks on Peterman is "arm strength". This has always been the biggest crock of non sense Imo. I bet if you were line up Taylor and Peterman in the same spot and had them throw a football as far as they could, the difference would be minimal. I understand you have to be able to zip a ball and you have to be strong, however arm strength to me is so incredibly overrated
NoSaint Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 I wasn't disputing the lack deep or boundary throws. Just the completion percentage. And I was just pointing out that a 59 vs 61 doesn't really change his point
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 One of the knocks on Peterman is "arm strength". This has always been the biggest crock of non sense Imo. I bet if you were line up Taylor and Peterman in the same spot and had them throw a football as far as they could, the difference would be minimal. I understand you have to be able to zip a ball and you have to be strong, however arm strength to me is so incredibly overrated And yet there is approximately one player, Chad Pennington, in the last 25 years that has been able to succeed without the requisite arm strength. There are guys without a strong arm that have succeeded, like Brady (although he has plenty of arm now). But he could always make all the throws, it just wasn't strong. Guys with weak arms cannot succeed.
Doc Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 And I was just pointing out that a 59 vs 61 doesn't really change his point He chose to use 60%. And I've heard college analysts say that it's the minimum completion rate a college QB should have.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 He chose to use 60%. And I've heard college analysts say that it's the minimum completion rate a college QB should have. Without context a raw completion percentage is a pretty worthless metric. Just in the amount of screen passes and dump offs a quarterback throws. Or ones that don't go downfield.
Boatdrinks Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 One of the knocks on Peterman is "arm strength". This has always been the biggest crock of non sense Imo. I bet if you were line up Taylor and Peterman in the same spot and had them throw a football as far as they could, the difference would be minimal. I understand you have to be able to zip a ball and you have to be strong, however arm strength to me is so incredibly overrated What is overrated is the exercise you described the QBs taking part in. Largely because the quivalent of that type of route is the easiest in pro football and doesn't require that much arm strength. Heck, Jeff Tuel looked okay throwing a go route. But it's the deep out that is usually the hallmark of an NFL caliber arm. I'll bet Taylor bests Peterman at that. However, he's not nearly as good at reading the defense and getting the ball out on time. The arm strength could limit Peterman to hitting his ceiling as a quality NFL backup. That wouldn't be a bad result for a 5th round pick. Fans hoping Peterman is a poor mans version of Tom Brady will likely be disappointed. He stands a decent chance of ( eventually) being more effective than Taylor at running Dennisons WCO though.
John from Riverside Posted September 3, 2017 Posted September 3, 2017 ...a WELL overplayed card along with the associated paranoia.....some skinny 3rd rounder outta Notre Dame had a real cannon, didn't he?......can't remember his name though....some guy drafted by the Patsies in the 6th was solely picked (COUGH) because of his Jeff George (WHO and WHERE?) like cannon.......gimme a guy with brains, finesse and who can "thread the needle consistently" over the "proverbial cannon" any day of the week....the "cannons" shoot blanks more often than not period.............. I thought he developed his strength as time went on Anticipation, timing, accuracy those are the most important factors
cover1 Posted September 3, 2017 Author Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) He completed 61.1% of his passes at Pitt. Not in 2016 it was sub 60%, barely but doesn't really change anything especially considering the offense he played in. Here is adjusted completion % https://imgur.com/a/CwxUO Without context a raw completion percentage is a pretty worthless metric. Just in the amount of screen passes and dump offs a quarterback throws. Or ones that don't go downfield. Here is his passing chart from 16 https://imgur.com/a/grT6e Here is a pre draft breakdown from Mark Schofield...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhYvpyVgKHw Our breakdown at Cover 1 prior to the draft Edited September 3, 2017 by cover1
Buff the Cat Posted September 3, 2017 Posted September 3, 2017 For all those enamoured with downfield arm strength, please keep in mind that a 20 yard out to the opposite side of the field, is close to the same distance as a 40 yard "bomb" with the difference being in that more "zip" is required on the ball on most out passes. For example; 40 yard bomb: The team is set at the left hash mark and the receiver is 15 yards away from the QB. The receiver does a "go' route (meaning straight ahead) then the total distance thrown DOWNFIELD is equal to approximately 43 yards. DOWNFIELD is capitalized because it does not take into account the arch or the true trajectory of the throw, it is simply "how far" downfield. c2 = a2 + b2 So, a= 15 yards, b= 40 yards. 20 yard out to the opposite side of the field: The team is set at the left hash mark and the receiver is 15 yards away to the right of the QB. The receiver does an "down and out", at the point of reception (near the sidelines) the receiver is now 29.75 yards away from the QB laterally and 20 yards away vertically. So, c2 = a2 + b2, a= 29.75 yards, b= 20 yards which equals 36 yards. This pass pattern usually requires more "zip" on the ball to hit the out pattern and is only 4 yards different than the "bomb" pass. Zip on the ball, and of course, accuracy is extremely important on many throws. My point here is to show that an Out, In, or Seam, pattern can require as much "zip" and as much "arm strength" as those people demanding deep throw "bomb" strength. Full Mathematical Disclosure = Field Length 120 yards including endzones, Field Width 53.3 yards (out of bounce-to-out of bounce), NFL space between Hash Marks 6.2 yards.
Doc Posted September 3, 2017 Posted September 3, 2017 Not in 2016 it was sub 60%, barely but doesn't really change anything especially considering the offense he played in. Here is adjusted completion % https://imgur.com/a/CwxUO I'm not sure where they get he threw the ball 311 times. It was 306.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 3, 2017 Posted September 3, 2017 For all those enamoured with downfield arm strength, please keep in mind that a 20 yard out to the opposite side of the field, is close to the same distance as a 40 yard "bomb" with the difference being in that more "zip" is required on the ball on most out passes. For example; 40 yard bomb: The team is set at the left hash mark and the receiver is 15 yards away from the QB. The receiver does a "go' route (meaning straight ahead) then the total distance thrown DOWNFIELD is equal to approximately 43 yards. DOWNFIELD is capitalized because it does not take into account the arch or the true trajectory of the throw, it is simply "how far" downfield. c2 = a2 + b2 So, a= 15 yards, b= 40 yards. 20 yard out to the opposite side of the field: The team is set at the left hash mark and the receiver is 15 yards away to the right of the QB. The receiver does an "down and out", at the point of reception (near the sidelines) the receiver is now 29.75 yards away from the QB laterally and 20 yards away vertically. So, c2 = a2 + b2, a= 29.75 yards, b= 20 yards which equals 36 yards. This pass pattern usually requires more "zip" on the ball to hit the out pattern and is only 4 yards different than the "bomb" pass. Zip on the ball, and of course, accuracy is extremely important on many throws. My point here is to show that an Out, In, or Seam, pattern can require as much "zip" and as much "arm strength" as those people demanding deep throw "bomb" strength. Full Mathematical Disclosure = Field Length 120 yards including endzones, Field Width 53.3 yards (out of bounce-to-out of bounce), NFL space between Hash Marks 6.2 yards. I have worried about Peterman's arm strength as much or more than anyone, and I'm always thinking deep out as the barometer and not a bomb.
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