Greg Garbriel: On What the Bills Are Trying To Do

[JaCrispy]

Actually, this is a tough one to judge if you're just looking at board reaction. Most of the people who are almost always wrong hate the moves, but there are some highly accurate posters like Badol who don't like them either.

 

Me, I subscribe to the need for a scorched earth poilcy, so I am enjoying seeing everything about the past regime(s) thrashed and trashed. Even if McD & Beane are not ultimately successful in the end, this had to be done to truly begin anew.

In all honesty, it's hard to take the ones who don't like the moves at face value...i feel like they are all season ticket holders and just don't want to go to a crap showing this year...I feel the people who like the moves have been wanting this for years because they feel OBD has just been putting "lipstick" on a pig the last 17 years and are too afraid to sacrifice the present for the future.

 

Now, I understand I am making sweeping generalizations here...therefore, I am probably wrong, and likely require a swift kick in the pants...

[BobChalmers]

McBeane will be considered a success if one of the following things happens:

 

1) Tyrod steps up and becomes the franchise

2) Peterman steps up and becomes the franchise

3) The QB they draft in round 1 next year steps up and becomes the franchise

 

That's it. If they can build a formidable defense they might get a chance for option 4, which is just a redo of option 3.

 

4) Sammy breaks (again).

Edited August 29, 2017 by BobChalmers

[NoSaint]

@buffsportspage

 

Greg Gabriel: Understanding What The Bills Are Trying To Do - Buffalo Sports Page

https://www.buffalosportspage.com/greg-gabriel-understanding-bills-trying/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So close! You finally added a quote but not one that actually added anything.

[26CornerBlitz]

So close! You finally added a quote but not one that actually added anything.

 

The flow must be heavy today.

[stinky finger]

That's right 26. They will have no one to blame but themselves if it fails as it will be largely all their picks, acquisitions .

Of course they'll freakin' own it.

 

What, is that some revelation?

This is not rocket science. We don't need to psychology break this down. Sean wants his own type of players to match his scheme and character expectations. So be prepared to buy A lot of jerseys with different names....the only way this rebuild & new culture will work is to give McB 5 full years!

And 5 they will get

[Boatdrinks]

Of course they'll freakin' own it.

 

What, is that some revelation?

Perhaps you should ask the poster whose statement I was agreeing with.

And 5 they will get

And how do you know this?

[stinky finger]

Gabriel says

BEANE & MCDERMOTT THE BEST SINCE BUTLER & LEVY

 

How absurd is that when neither guy has proven jack squat at their position as of yet - other than to put together and coach a team that has played several embarrassing preseason games. Yay - hall of fame bound!

 

To say that, Gabriel is biased beyond reason - at least at this stage of the game.

 

Let's see some superior team rosters, performances and records before anointing them anything other than wannabe's at this point in time.

right - unlike you who would rather completely condemn before even one game is played.

 

should we fire them for these moves?

[Rico]

Yea.

 

They are getting anointed for essentially forcing good players out that don't fit their schemes.

 

I don't really get it, but time will tell.

 

I'm struggling to understand how trading a 24 YO stud WR for a unknown 2nd round pick that they could very well use on a WR on is a good move.

Looking past the injuries and the future $$$, he's a Whaley guy... and he's also very much a Brandon guy.

[BADOLBILZ]

@buffsportspage

Greg Gabriel: Understanding What The Bills Are Trying To Do - Buffalo Sports Page

https://www.buffalosportspage.com/greg-gabriel-understanding-bills-trying/

 

 

 

 

 

Gabriel is just peddling black and white easy answers to a complex situation because it's in his best interest to excuse these kind of mistakes..........he's not retired.......he's unwanted.

 

But I really don't care about Darby or Ragland........they were the type of players you can get from any draft.

 

Watkins........they haven't gotten a Watkins-type player in any of the drafts since the drought began.......and that's A WHOLE LOT of high draft picks.

 

The reality is that playmakers in the passing game are hard to find........be it special QB's who raise the level of those around them..........or just special talents at TE or WR.

 

All the people that have HARPED on the first round pick the Bills gave Cleveland to swap spots in the draft...........who was that other pick going to become?

 

The Bills haven't selected a QB with their originally slotted first round pick in ANY draft since 1961........so expecting THAT to have happened seems a dream unfounded.

 

If they were lucky.......probably something between a Donte Whitner or Stephon Gilmore or CJ Spiller.........someone who 3-4 years into their career you still aren't even sure if they are really even that good or not.

 

Or they could have ended up with Cam Erving.

 

The fascination with draft picks by some fans is perplexing because the track records are right there to be seen.........trading a talent like Watkins at this stage of his career is like trading in a $10K lottery ticket in for $10K worth lottery tickets when you are deadass broke.

 

The ODDS SIMPLY DON'T FAVOR IT WORKING OUT..........in fact they are overwhelmingly unfavorable.

 

But........new coach and new coach does no wrong with some.

[stinky finger]

Perhaps you should ask the poster whose statement I was agreeing with.

 

And how do you know this?

 

Part 1: Form your own opinion and answer, if you wish. Or, wait for someone else's response and use theirs.

 

Part 2: I don't know. I DO know that replacing regimes every 2-3 years is fruitless.

[thebandit27]

Looking past the injuries and the future $$$, he's a Whaley guy... and he's also very much a Brandon guy.

In the past, you and I often disagreed on personnel moves, and thus I value your opinion

 

Ergo, I want to understand your position here...

 

Would you rather err on the side of getting rid of too much talent if it means scrubbing the roster of the players acquired by the previous regime?

 

If so, where does the line get drawn? Does talent or productivity ever win out?

 

Just curious

Edited August 29, 2017 by thebandit27

[dave mcbride]

Good piece. I bought everything he said except re Watkins. I am not at all convinced he is injury prone, and he wouldn't have been hard to keep. I have a feeling we'll regret his departure. We shall see.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Gabriel is just peddling black and white easy answers to a complex situation because it's in his best interest to excuse these kind of mistakes..........he's not retired.......he's unwanted.

 

But I really don't care about Darby or Ragland........they were the type of players you can get from any draft.

 

Watkins........they haven't gotten a Watkins-type player in any of the drafts since the drought began.......and that's A WHOLE LOT of high draft picks.

 

The reality is that playmakers in the passing game are hard to find........be it special QB's who raise the level of those around them..........or just special talents at TE or WR.

 

All the people that have HARPED on the first round pick the Bills gave Cleveland to swap spots in the draft...........who was that other pick going to become?

 

The Bills haven't selected a QB with their originally slotted first round pick in ANY draft since 1961........so expecting THAT to have happened seems a dream unfounded.

 

If they were lucky.......probably something between a Donte Whitner or Stephon Gilmore or CJ Spiller.........someone who 3-4 years into their career you still aren't even sure if they are really even that good or not.

 

Or they could have ended up with Cam Erving.

 

The fascination with draft picks by some fans is perplexing because the track records are right there to be seen.........trading a talent like Watkins at this stage of his career is like trading in a $10K lottery ticket in for $10K worth lottery tickets when you are deadass broke.

 

The ODDS SIMPLY DON'T FAVOR IT WORKING OUT..........in fact they are overwhelmingly unfavorable.

 

But........new coach and new coach does no wrong with some.

I use the lottery analogy as well, we had a winning ticket and we gave it away for another ticket? Makes no sense to me

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Gabriel is just peddling black and white easy answers to a complex situation because it's in his best interest to excuse these kind of mistakes..........he's not retired.......he's unwanted.

 

But I really don't care about Darby or Ragland........they were the type of players you can get from any draft.

 

Watkins........they haven't gotten a Watkins-type player in any of the drafts since the drought began.......and that's A WHOLE LOT of high draft picks.

 

The reality is that playmakers in the passing game are hard to find........be it special QB's who raise the level of those around them..........or just special talents at TE or WR.

 

All the people that have HARPED on the first round pick the Bills gave Cleveland to swap spots in the draft...........who was that other pick going to become?

 

The Bills haven't selected a QB with their originally slotted first round pick in ANY draft since 1961........so expecting THAT to have happened seems a dream unfounded.

 

If they were lucky.......probably something between a Donte Whitner or Stephon Gilmore or CJ Spiller.........someone who 3-4 years into their career you still aren't even sure if they are really even that good or not.

 

Or they could have ended up with Cam Erving.

 

The fascination with draft picks by some fans is perplexing because the track records are right there to be seen.........trading a talent like Watkins at this stage of his career is like trading in a $10K lottery ticket in for $10K worth lottery tickets when you are deadass broke.

 

The ODDS SIMPLY DON'T FAVOR IT WORKING OUT..........in fact they are overwhelmingly unfavorable.

 

But........new coach and new coach does no wrong with some.

Just saw this. Good post.

[Dan]

In all honesty, it's hard to take the ones who don't like the moves at face value...i feel like they are all season ticket holders and just don't want to go to a crap showing this year...I feel the people who like the moves have been wanting this for years because they feel OBD has just been putting "lipstick" on a pig the last 17 years and are too afraid to sacrifice the present for the future.

 

Now, I understand I am making sweeping generalizations here...therefore, I am probably wrong, and likely require a swift kick in the pants...

I personally don't have a problem clearing house of all players. But didn't we just see this... A wasted year according to the author, "The 2017 season will almost be a tryout for many players on the roster. The coaching staff and front office will know who they want or don’t want much better next February than they do today." Why does it take a full year, wasted to evaluate players? Why couldn't they have made these moves before training camp?

 

We've seen this with different coaches and GMs. They all want "their guys". So here we go... Starting from square 1...again. Hoping the new guys are better than the old guys. I think it's justified on bioth sides...the pessimism and the optimism for the future. Personally... I'm more pessimistic. Hopefully, i'm wrong.

[Rico]

In the past, you and I often disagreed on personnel moves, and thus I value your opinion

 

Ergo, I want to understand your position here...

 

Would you rather err on the side of getting rid of too much talent if it means scrubbing the roster of the players acquired by the previous regime?

 

If so, where does the line get drawn? Does talent or productivity ever win out?

 

Just curious

I think true productivity would definitely win out; unrealized (for whatever reasons) talent, not so much. When in doubt, ship it out.

 

I do believe these moves represent a statement that has been made loud and clear throughout the organization and to the fanbase: the past is completely unacceptable, and change is here. If you really liked at least some aspects of what you saw from this team, you may be disappointed. Me, I can't remember the last time I was this excited for the future, even if this year ends up being a bust.

[NoSaint]

 

The flow must be heavy today.

Meh. It's one of the only major changes I'd make- I think mods should "encourage" thread starters with a link to include an actually meaningful quote. It makes it easier to decide if you want to read, and almost always makes for better discussion since many don't click on blind links and just react to the headline/story title if there's no content Edited August 29, 2017 by NoSaint

[26CornerBlitz]

Meh. It's one of the only major changes I'd make- I think mods should "encourage" thread starters with a link to include an actually meaningful quote. It makes it easier to decide if you want to read, and almost always makes for better discussion since many don't click.

 

I linked the beginning of the article as a teaser with the rest for people to read if it piqued their interest. Anymore would have violated the ToS. Seems to me that it's getting plenty of discussion despite your bitching about it.

[JohnC]

 

 

Gabriel is just peddling black and white easy answers to a complex situation because it's in his best interest to excuse these kind of mistakes..........he's not retired.......he's unwanted.

 

But I really don't care about Darby or Ragland........they were the type of players you can get from any draft.

 

Watkins........they haven't gotten a Watkins-type player in any of the drafts since the drought began.......and that's A WHOLE LOT of high draft picks.

 

The reality is that playmakers in the passing game are hard to find........be it special QB's who raise the level of those around them..........or just special talents at TE or WR.

 

All the people that have HARPED on the first round pick the Bills gave Cleveland to swap spots in the draft...........who was that other pick going to become?

 

The Bills haven't selected a QB with their originally slotted first round pick in ANY draft since 1961........so expecting THAT to have happened seems a dream unfounded.

 

If they were lucky.......probably something between a Donte Whitner or Stephon Gilmore or CJ Spiller.........someone who 3-4 years into their career you still aren't even sure if they are really even that good or not.

 

Or they could have ended up with Cam Erving.

 

The fascination with draft picks by some fans is perplexing because the track records are right there to be seen.........trading a talent like Watkins at this stage of his career is like trading in a $10K lottery ticket in for $10K worth lottery tickets when you are deadass broke.

 

The ODDS SIMPLY DON'T FAVOR IT WORKING OUT..........in fact they are overwhelmingly unfavorable.

 

But........new coach and new coach does no wrong with some.

With respect to the second highlighted segment any organization that makes a lot transactions is not going to have all of them work out. That's the nature of the business. If you want to be fixated on the Watkins transaction and then make it your basis for criticizing everything that has transpired now and in the future then go ahead and allow it to affect your judgment on everything else they are doing. That's your prerogative. The reality is that what is happening here with the new regime is more of the standard course of action than nonstandard course of action.

 

While you loudly and repeatedly proclaim that what is being done is not going to work this organization is putting itself in a very good positon to eventually make what they are doing work. How are they going to do that? By putting themselves in a very good position to draft a high end qb prospect in next year's draft. You and I for years have exasperatingly taken the same stance that this moronic organization has irrationally not seriously addressed the qb position. Now that they are putting themselves in a good position to do so you complain that you wouldn't do it the way they are doing it. Who cares how it is going to be done as long as it gets done?

 

You and your distraught followers want instant gratification with immediate results. You are not going to get it because when you are handed garbage it takes time to clean out the smelly trash. This is a rebuild and it is going to take time. In my mind doing the spade work is better than spinning one's wheels for a generation or more and still get nowhere.

I think true productivity would definitely win out; unrealized (for whatever reasons) talent, not so much. When in doubt, ship it out.

 

I do believe these moves represent a statement that has been made loud and clear throughout the organization and to the fanbase: the past is completely unacceptable, and change is here. If you really liked at least some aspects of what you saw from this team, you may be disappointed. Me, I can't remember the last time I was this excited for the future, even if this year ends up being a bust.

You and I are riding the same horse.

[NoSaint]

 

I linked the beginning of the article as a teaser with the rest for people to read if it piqued their interest. Anymore would have violated the ToS. Seems to me that it's getting plenty of discussion despite your bitching about it.

Simmer down.

 

I'll duck out after this (so have the last gripe if you want), but have maintained for years that it's not hard to quote a meaningful paragraph to frame the discussion. I make the point semi regularly and normally avoid doing it in your threads since posting tweets without added content is your claim to fame.... you still get conversation this way but if you quote a paragraph in which Gabriel states that the plan of attack is instead of his meandering intro without any real purpose statement, you get a little better discussion in my experience.