buffaloboyinATL Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) I cant wait to see what this board is like once the draft is over and the Bills drafted 6 starters in the first 3 rounds and possibly even have a franchise QB CBF There will be people saying "Now if only he had Watkins to throw to, and We'd be better off with Gilislee as our backup RB" etc etc Let's assume it is 100% "real". What difference does it make? In what way is the source of the information somehow qualified to make a judgment valuation about this? Let's assume it's Jim Kelly and he hates the direction of the team from what he sees from the outside in his personal opinion. Who the hell cares?! What does he know about NFL team building? His job was to throw a football. EDIT: Nothing against Jimbo! You see my point though. As much as I appreciate the OP for sharing, I was thinking the same thing. I used to work for IBM, in a respectable Management role, roughly 20 years ago. I am no more qualified today to advise IBM on how they should run their company, than I was then. Just another unqualified opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Edited August 30, 2017 by buffaloboyinATL
FLFan Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Not surprising. Anyone with half a brain can see these guys are clueless. Luckily they found an ownership group as dumb as them. Same old same old at OBD That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but your suggestion that people who do not agree with you are somehow mentally deficient, which includes me, is insulting and ignorant in the extreme.
Wayne Arnold Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Whaley actually built a winning team (the only one in the last 12 years), which the Pegulas ruined by hiring Rex Ryan. Most of the players on that mediocre "winning" *9-7 team were acquired before Whaley became GM. The entire starting DLine (Mario, Kyle, Dareus, Hughes), Gilmore, Searcy, AWill, McKelvin, Freddy, Spiller, Cordy Glenn, Wood, Scott Chandler, etc. The foundation of the team were acquired before Whaley was named GM. How is that "building"? And Whaley supported the Rex hire. If he were against it like he should have been then there's no way the Pegulas hire Rex. His problem was his allegiance to EJ. But this team was a QB away from being a perennial playoff team. Whaley, in my opinion, was a good GM. He simply held onto EJ too long. Levy was outcoached in every SB. Talk about overrated. You could say this about nearly every NFL team. It blows my mind that anyone would think Whaley was a "good GM". That's absurd. His drafting record was the worst in the NFL during his tenure. Whaley was all about pushing his chips to the middle of the table. He went all in for the now with no regard for the future. And the best he could do was a cheap *9-7 record in his first season as GM. That's why the team is in such bad shape now. I don't agree with this at all. The Bills were talented but poorly coached. It's also possible it was a group of divas. But to call the Bills a pile of crap is nonsense. Now as a regime you can a) build off the players you have or b) tear it down and rebuild. The second option definitely buys you more time. They are a pile of crap now. This isn't the same team that we saw from 2013 - 2016. (And let's not go too crazy over the talent level during that time). Whaley sacrificed the future health of the franchise for a win-now approach. Instead of building through the draft he would give away draft picks. That may be because he knew how poor he and his scouting team were at drafting. Now we have a team in cap hell with very few of their own early-round draft choices on the roster and we're still in "quarterback purgatory". I agree that they were poorly coached to a certain extent. They were poorly coached on offense under Marrone, but well-coached on defense (Pettine, Schwartz). They were poorly coached on defense under Rex, but well-coached on offense (Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn, Aaron Kromer). You exaggerate. The team was not devoid of talent. It has been a middle tiered team at least for the last few seasons. No team is "devoid" of talent. It's the NFL. I agree it was a middle-tiered team for the last few seasons - but the GM acted like they were Super Bowl contenders and sacrificed the future for the present as a result. He wasn't given the authority like Tim Murray was as Sabres' GM or now at OBD with McBeane. How do you know that? Whaley left him a .500 team needing new coaching staff. Not exactly a steaming pile that you claim it to be. A 7-9 team with one of the easiest schedules in football. Almost no salary cap to work with. Then they lost Gilmore, Gillislee, Woods, and both starting safeties. Yes, a steaming pile of crap.
Nervous Guy Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but your suggestion that people who do not agree with you are somehow mentally deficient, which includes me, is insulting and ignorant in the extreme.
DisplacedBillsFan Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Unless he's in the building/locker room on a daily basis, and hearing the message from the coaches and experiencing the culture first hand, who cares what a former player says. At this point he's nothing more than a fan, though one with a lot more football knowledge than some others, over reacting, and spreading a gloom and doom message just like 95% of members on this board and all of the media.
Rico Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Most of the players on that mediocre "winning" *9-7 team were acquired before Whaley became GM. The entire starting DLine (Mario, Kyle, Dareus, Hughes), Gilmore, Searcy, AWill, McKelvin, Freddy, Spiller, Cordy Glenn, Wood, Scott Chandler, etc. The foundation of the team were acquired before Whaley was named GM. How is that "building"? And Whaley supported the Rex hire. If he were against it like he should have been then there's no way the Pegulas hire Rex. You could say this about nearly every NFL team. It blows my mind that anyone would think Whaley was a "good GM". That's absurd. His drafting record was the worst in the NFL during his tenure. Whaley was all about pushing his chips to the middle of the table. He went all in for the now with no regard for the future. And the best he could do was a cheap *9-7 record in his first season as GM. That's why the team is in such bad shape now. They are a pile of crap now. This isn't the same team that we saw from 2013 - 2016. (And let's not go too crazy over the talent level during that time). Whaley sacrificed the future health of the franchise for a win-now approach. Instead of building through the draft he would give away draft picks. That may be because he knew how poor he and his scouting team were at drafting. Now we have a team in cap hell with very few of their own early-round draft choices on the roster and we're still in "quarterback purgatory". I agree that they were poorly coached to a certain extent. They were poorly coached on offense under Marrone, but well-coached on defense (Pettine, Schwartz). They were poorly coached on defense under Rex, but well-coached on offense (Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn, Aaron Kromer). No team is "devoid" of talent. It's the NFL. I agree it was a middle-tiered team for the last few seasons - but the GM acted like they were Super Bowl contenders and sacrificed the future for the present as a result. How do you know that? A 7-9 team with one of the easiest schedules in football. Almost no salary cap to work with. Then they lost Gilmore, Gillislee, Woods, and both starting safeties. Yes, a steaming pile of crap. Indeed. Whaley was a disaster.
Helpmenow Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Indeed. Whaley was a disaster. and is richer than all of us
EasternOHBillsFan Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Just spoke in person with a former Bill from our glory days (not giving his name-sorry). He felt our coach and GM are handling this all wrong. He felt the message the coach and GM are sending to current players is that this year is a wash. He said that is a poor way to build a team (he also said that they are turning loyal fans away). He went into detail about how they should have called in each player for an interview about where they were going to get a feel if they were a fit or not. He is not sure our current regime has done this. I take his opinion seriously because he used to play. So when we got rid of Burkett, Harmon, Riddick, Smerlas, and more, was that REALLY a poor way to build a team? Does this means that we should have stuck with the 1989 squad because they were an OK team? NO. Average teams keep their mediocre players. Great teams fill their rosters with players that have traits and talents that foster WINNING. Edited August 30, 2017 by EasternOHBillsFan
hondo in seattle Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 I don't doubt that the ex player said what he said. But if you're not currently on the sideline and not currently in the locker room, I don't think your opinion about McD means very much. I'm not giving McD my blind faith, but I'm not going to blindly criticize either. The data points that reach the public aren't persuasive and compelling enough for me to judge how he's handling the transition.
buffaloboyinATL Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 and is richer than all of us Do you know what kind of car I drive?!
RoyBatty is alive Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 So let's re-cap, an "unnamed player" from a quarter century ago has an opinion and the thesis here is encapsulated in this, " He went into detail about how they should have called in each player for an interview about where they were going to get a feel if they were a fit or not. He is not sure our current regime has done this" THis unnamed player apparently know NOTHING more than anyone else, such another opinion. Maybe they did talk to each and every player. Non-story imo. "
Big Turk Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Just spoke in person with a former Bill from our glory days (not giving his name-sorry). He felt our coach and GM are handling this all wrong. He felt the message the coach and GM are sending to current players is that this year is a wash. He said that is a poor way to build a team (he also said that they are turning loyal fans away). He went into detail about how they should have called in each player for an interview about where they were going to get a feel if they were a fit or not. He is not sure our current regime has done this. I take his opinion seriously because he used to play. Well...I mean in a perfect world that is what would happen, but maybe they started out not thinking it was going to go this way, then realized the opportunity to have 6 picks in the top 100 in a single draft is an opportunity that was too good to pass up(and potentially 7 if they secure a 3rd round pick for FA losses). Of course a player wants to have a decision on if they want to be somewhere or not...but that isn't how it always plays out in the real world. They play, the coaches coach and the front office front offices... I get what he is saying but I just don't necessarily think it's all too realistic...
Tcali Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Players often make some of the worst front office personnel with regard to long term thinking so the response you got was quite typical, whichever side you may be on. The Matt Millen Doctrine,...also called 'Take a WR #1 overall in consecutive years to start a dynasty'. Edited August 30, 2017 by Tcali
billsredneck1 Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) All this complaining about what the new staff has done is really a drag. We just spent 4 years with an egotistical moron followed by a blowhard clown. All any of us wanted was for new blood at gm and coach and we by all accounts ,have gotten what appears to be a respectable pair. I can't expect to agree with every move they make but I look at it like this. ... If I had to bet $100 bucks on whether Sammy would play all 16, I'd bet he!! no. If I had to bet $100 that we would be able to sign him after this year and him not wanting to catch the first plane out...too a team we could/would never match..I'd bet he!! no. That being said, I'll take Gaines and the pick. We did get a very good receiver in Matthews and a pick, so production wise and time on field wise, I think it will pay off. Ragland for a 4th in 2019, I didn't like, I would have rather found a speedster or a RT, but, I'm not gonna call the staff stupid. My biggest beef is Castillo and how crappy this line has played...and for the love of God leave Miller alone and try Groy at RT if we can't find someone on a cut. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the staff going into week one to get their $het together. If trading Sammy was equivalent to cutting off Tyrod's throwing arm, then we will see Peterman play. Realistically, do I expect a WC this year?...no...but I won't rule it out either. I believe we are gonna see a whole different team come week one. I hope Matthews can step right in. I think Zay will be an upgrade to Woods. I think Brandon Reilly will be a better version of Chris Hogan and Streeter and Tate can help as well. I think Oleary will show us why he won the best college TE award.....not to mention clay and the backs' ability to catch. I have a lot of faith in the talent we have. I also like the way we are setting ourselves up for the future. Actually, I haven't felt this good going into a season in more years than I can remember. All this negativity is not gonna drag me down. Edited August 30, 2017 by billsredneck1
Boatdrinks Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 So when we got rid of Burkett, Harmon, Riddick, Smerlas, and more, was that REALLY a poor way to build a team? Does this means that we should have stuck with the 1989 squad because they were an OK team? NO. Average teams keep their mediocre players. Great teams fill their rosters with players that have traits and talents that foster WINNING. I just don't see a parallel here. The OPs source said sending the message that this year is a wash ( by dumping young players) is a poor way to build a team. That '89 team was coming off a division title, AFC championship appearance , and won the division again that year. Better than OK. They had already been built and required only a tweak here and there. As for the players you mentioned that's not exactly what happened. Burkett had a well documented dust up on the sidelines with Jim Kelly on MNF and was traded in short order. Ronnie Harmon dropped a sure TD pass at the end of the divisional playoff game and was traded in the offseason. Smerlas was a plan B free agent that they wouldn't pay and had to replace with his backup Jeff Wright who was actually a downgrade from Smerlas. It was a completely different situation from a tear down/ rebuild.
RoyBatty is alive Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 What is so typical of this post is a player attached to the "Super Bowl" era is supposed to give it immediate credibility.
Agent 91 Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 was gabe northern on the sb team? hes very connected and vocal
Augie Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 What is so typical of this post is a player attached to the "Super Bowl" era is supposed to give it immediate credibility. ...no mention of whether he ever saw action, but even that matters absolutely ZERO.
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