Coaches not the talent...

[dezertbill]

I've said that if the Bills would have hired Hue Jackson instead of RR and kept Schwartz in 15 we would have made it to the playoffs.

 

I remember players saying that Wannestadts defense was so vanilla a kindergartener could game plan it. Jauron couldn't spell offense but keep in mind we had no offensive line either.

 

Let's not mention losing the final game in 2004 vs Pittsburghs 3rd string.

 

The only coach i would disagree with was Marrone. He was 9-7 and in the playoff race till the end in 14. He did it with EJ Manuel and Kyle Orton along with a 525 yard leading rusher. No way he could have done better with what he was given.

Edited August 30, 2017 by dezertbill

[Dragonborn10]

That is what happens when you switch coaches every two years.

Agreed but how many of them deserved another year? Only Wade deserved more time in my opinion.

The correct move a few years back was to retain Schwartz as DC and hire Hue Jackson again in my opinion. This would have kept the defense intact and let Jackson focus on the offense.

I advocated for this then. But in complete transparency, I wanted Bowles over Ryan too.

[simpleman]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent pool to be rebuilt to fit their “way”, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it ain’t (sic) broken , don’t fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

Edited August 30, 2017 by simpleman

[bigduke6]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent to be rebuild it to fit their “way”, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it ain’t (sic) broken , don’t fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

agree with all this, its very possible that ownership doesnt understand the actual game of football, schemes, how its played, etc. If, that is the case, then they need a football czar. Everybody has to be on the same page to be successful.

[HT02]

I'd say QB then coach

[jrober38]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent to be rebuild it to fit their “way”, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it ain’t (sic) broken , don’t fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

 

I agree with this.

Ralph was a terrible owner, and Pegula hasn't proven to be any better.

[Kelly the Dog]

The teams that win in all four major sports fit into one of two categories: Either they have a couple star players who dominate the rest of the league, which happens in the NBA and NHL a little more than the others, OR, they have a single magical season where everything comes together with the ownership, the management and coaching, as well as the players in a perfect storm.

 

Not discounting your guys case for ownership above, but it's ownership and a few other things, not to mention that a lot of ownership success is just pure luck picking the right GM or coach at the right time, and not prescient genius of that particular owner.

[simpleman]

The teams that win in all four major sports fit into one of two categories: Either they have a couple star players who dominate the rest of the league, which happens in the NBA and NHL a little more than the others, OR, they have a single magical season where everything comes together with the ownership, the management and coaching, as well as the players in a perfect storm.

 

Not discounting your guys case for ownership above, but it's ownership and a few other things, not to mention that a lot of ownership success is just pure luck picking the right GM or coach at the right time, and not prescient genius of that particular owner.

Kelly, I don't disagree that you need "luck" or chance as well. But in order to take advantage that "luck" in business you need to build a foundation that puts you in a position to take advantage of that "luck" if it happens. Otherwise, it is just yet another wasted opportunity.

 

Imagine where the Colts would be today if they had properly planned for the future and taken full advantage of drafting Andrew Luck. I imagine many other teams might have lucked into a later round pick of "Brady" and might not have properly taken advantage of the opportunity like the Patriots did.

Edited August 30, 2017 by simpleman

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly, I don't disagree that you need "luck" or chance as well. But in order to take advantage that "luck" in business you need to build a foundation that puts you in a position to take advantage of that "luck" if it happens. Otherwise, it is just yet another wasted opportunity.

Yeah I agree with that. And a lot of owners are good businessmen but don't seem to understand football much.

[BillsFan130]

The last 2 years is a mystery to me. There offence to your point was actually respectable, and they were supposed to have a juggernaut defensive coach in rex ryan, but we all know how that turned out. The other years, I mostly think it was average talent, with mediocre coaching. Combine that, and 7-9 is generally the outcome you are going to get

[PolishDave]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent pool to be rebuilt to fit their “way”, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it ain’t (sic) broken , don’t fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

 

 

I agree with this.

Ralph was a terrible owner, and Pegula hasn't proven to be any better.

 

So how are you going to fix this?

[reddogblitz]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent pool to be rebuilt to fit their way, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it aint (sic) broken , dont fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

Nothing changes until the ownership changes Edited August 30, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Coach55]

Yesterday... Ugh... You can blame Taylor/Jones all you want. The offensive playcalling was atrocious. It should have never came down to the last play of the game....

[HumbleAndHungry]

To me the most disappointing part of the game besides Tyrod was mcdermotts clock management . It was the first taste we had of how he'd handle a tight game with time expiring. It seems so simple yet so many coaches overthink it.....i thought mcdermotts thorough miticulous approach would translate to great clock management . I hope it is just a rookie mistake and not a sign of things to come

[offyourocker]

Both are to blame. Tyrod's talent is just limited. He did not see open guys way too often yesterday. At the same time, they are not using Tyrod ideally at all. He is best out of the pocket. Very sad. We could be a winning team with this defense.

[26CornerBlitz]

No credit at all to the Panthers' defense for shutting down the Bills' one and only legitimate threat in McCoy with the full confidence that non of the receivers are good enough to make them pay for loading the box with 8 or 9 defenders.

[Coach55]

Both are to blame. Tyrod's talent is just limited. He did not see open guys way too often yesterday. At the same time, they are not using Tyrod ideally at all. He is best out of the pocket. Very sad. We could be a winning team with this defense.

Couldn't agree more. If they did some more playaction bootlegs, giving taylor the option to run or throw, we could've spread out the defense, which would've opened up the running lanes for McCoy in the middle of the field. Taylor is not great, but exploit the things he is great at.

[26CornerBlitz]

Both are to blame. Tyrod's talent is just limited. He did not see open guys way too often yesterday. At the same time, they are not using Tyrod ideally at all. He is best out of the pocket. Very sad. We could be a winning team with this defense.

 

This could easily be the case based on previous history, but how did you arrive at this conclusion?

[mjt328]

I have said this many times on here. The problem is not with the coaches or the talent, it is with the ownership.

 

A team should have a fixed plan and follow through with it. Ownership has failed to do so.

 

If Pegula had brought in qualified consultants ( like some called a Football Czar ) when he first purchased the team to fully evaluate the assets of the team (the talent), and determined how to best use the existing talent and what talent should be retained and what talent to be released. Developing a LONG Term strategy for the team and then followed it, we would be a much better team today. No constant turmoil, no constant rebuilding, just tweaking to get the best talent, management , and coaches.

 

If it was determined the team was best as a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense, a running team, a passing team, a man to man or a zone team, it should have been built according to that long term plan.

 

Rather than hiring a GM and a coaching staff who would bring in their own schemes and require the talent pool to be rebuilt to fit their “way”, the team should have had a plan and hired the best management who would be willing to use the existing talent and follow the selected schemes according to the existing master plan. Using the draft and free agency to tweak the roster to fit the plan and build a better team accordingly.

 

Instead of having a new GM and HC come in and require a complete 3 year rebuild every couple a years and hiring different talent to fit the "latest" plan. The talent would not have to keep relearning new schemes, the roster would not have to be constantly churning just to fit the new schemes. The talent and roster could just be tweaked to get better.

 

No wasting of draft picks like Ragland based on a 3-4 vs 4-3. No Ryan trashing a top defense just so he could do it his way. If it ain’t (sic) broken , don’t fix it. No new HC or GM coming in and bringing their completely different scheme and requiring yet another 3 year rebuild. Someone new comes into management or coaching who is all in on the same master plan, or they are not hired. Just a tweak getting rid of the players who were past their peak and bringing in better replacements at their position. Just tweaking the master plan to keep up with the changing NFL conditions, not totally redoing it every year. Consistency!

 

It is the management that is the problem, not the talent or the coaches. Ownership creates their own problems and unneeded turmoil by their own choices.

 

This is an interesting take, and it really makes me think of the Pittsburgh Steelers model.

 

The Rooney's are famous for their reluctance to change head coaches. Amazingly, they have only three coaches over the last 48 years. Chuck Knoll, Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin. In that span, they also have a whopping 29 playoff appearances, 16 conference championship appearances, 8 Super Bowl appearances and 6 Super Bowl victories.

 

Continuity matters in Pittsburgh. Knoll, Cowher and Tomlin have the same style of coaching. Even when Cowher retired and they hired Tomlin (from the Vikings, not an internal promotion), the transition was very smooth. He didn't make any drastic changes. The Steelers have been running the same 3-4 defense for over 35 years. Their drafting style is always the same (heavy on the Front 7, offensive line and at wide receiver).