This is how epically bad we are.

[BringBackFergy]

 

 

Again......someone making no sense.

 

McDermott got rid of Watkins, Kujo, Darby and Ragnuts........and appears to want to dump Miller too.

 

And Shaq and Preston Brown still have starting jobs.

 

An educated guess is that they would ALL be here still with most coaches so let's not act like they played themselves off the roster just to prop up the new HC.

But you said McDermott created this "**** salad" by getting rid of Watkins, Darby and Ragnuts. The main thrust of this thread is "bad drafting" so if he's able to find three starters from rounds 1-3 over the next three years I guess he's doing ok in your book. I happen to think we'll be happy wit this team next year with many, many rookie contracts which is the foundation for a Championship team (see Seahawks 2012-13).

[Gunsgoodtime]

It doesn't.

Just Bills fans trying to find someone to blame/excuse the new regime for their obvious questionable decision making.

They are looking at at least two more years of **** football.

Agreed. Not a fan of almost any of the moves this year, with a be Ragland being an ok move because he didn't fit. I hope the plan works out but my money is on it fails and on year 20 without playoffs, we will look back and hate this regime for what they did. Jmo

[re enlightener]

 

Amen. Just gotta be patient as the rest of the dead wood is finally removed, like say Dareus.

woods died? or wood? wait what?

[dubs]

 

 

None of the best, most consistently SB competitive organizations in football today got there by bottoming out..................so........let's bottom out?

 

I get that you are at the end of your rope but tanking is WAY less effective than building on mediocrity.

They are not tanking, per se. It's not like the Sabres.

 

The Sabres signed bad players and got rid of players with nothing in return so they could get the worst record and draft either McDavid or Eichel.

 

The Bills are getting rid of players that either don't fit the system, don't fit in the locker room, or are not worth the risk because of the money it would take to sign long term and getting future draft picks for them.

 

If they were truly taking there would be about 10 current players that wouldn't be on the roster.

[PlayoffsPlease]

I thought Whaley was a terrible choice from the get go. Its clear the new guys don't care for the talent he selected. Sadly the fact that the old regime was clueless does not mean the new regime has a clue. I really am not that impressed with Carolina overall.

[Boatdrinks]

They are not tanking, per se. It's not like the Sabres.

The Sabres signed bad players and got rid of players with nothing in return so they could get the worst record and draft either McDavid or Eichel.

The Bills are getting rid of players that either don't fit the system, don't fit in the locker room, or are not worth the risk because of the money it would take to sign long term and getting future draft picks for them.

If they were truly taking there would be about 10 current players that wouldn't be on the roster.

They are emptying out the pool of talent and gambling huge that they will put on a draft spectacle to rival the best in NFL history... and extending vets that have no chance of being around when the team is any good. This is making sense to you ?

[dubs]

They are emptying out the pool of talent and gambling huge that they will put on a draft spectacle to rival the best in NFL history... and extending vets that have no chance of being around when the team is any good. This is making sense to you ?

Huh? They got rid of one indisputable talent in Watkins. One. He's also a big injury headache.

 

If you are calling Darby, Gillislee, and Ragland huge talents, well then we definitely disagree on the meaning of the word. Darby was horrible last year. Gillislee is a backup RB and Ragland has never played a snap and hasn't looked good at all.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Well, I don't really know the answer to that. You're assuming a lot.

I think these were defendable calculated risks.

Sammy has been hurt a lot and probably too expensive to sign next year given the risk.

Darby was good in year one and gross in year 2.

Ragland was a really bad fit coming off a season ending injury.

We got three quality picks in return not including the picks from Gillislee and Mahomes.

They are clearly valuing finding good fits and a QB (next year).

I don't know if it'll work, but I understand what they are trying to do.

I'm going to the objective of this I guess.

 

Sammy was on the cheap and would have been nice to see what he could do this year, the only player remaining with star type qualities at wr. Gave him away for a lesser talent and a 2nd, cost 2 1st and a 4th? Not to mention let Woods walk and Goodwin, no remaining recievers on the team from previously causing no chemistry with the qb this year.

 

 

 

Darby is a good cb and a good pick, gave him away for a lesser talent and a 3rd. Oh yeah he was young and cheap too, and we already lost our best cb before him.

 

Ragland...the only one I'm ok with because he didn't fit, but still got a future 4th and we gave a 2nd

 

Gillisle was probably a mistake with a team that features the run game.

 

Kujo should have been kept and the team will suffer, who cares about one drunken crazy night, most of us has had them and he showed true value last year in a position we are suffering dearly at.

 

Not a fan of letting Zach Brown go, would have been great in this defense imo and someone we didn't replace and he won't expensive at all, thank he was signed for less than lorax.

 

I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting. I guess my point is I don't agree with the moves and think the plan will fail. I hope I'm wrong. I did like the move back in the draft to get an extra 1st next year, so there's that I guess. I like the a white pick and Zay pick. Time will tell, but I think it's going to be ugly. Peterman so far seems like a good pick for a 5th

Edited August 28, 2017 by Gunsgoodtime

[SoTier]

We are seeing the results of cleaning up a previous regimes mess.

 

No, we're seeing the result of the fundamental incompetence of the Bills organization, despite the change in ownership. The organization is run like some kind of 19th century political machine under the spoils system where the current regime brings in all its cronies and favorites. When the current "leaders" get booted out, the new regime leaders turns out the old and brings in its own cronies and favorites. Rinse, repeat. The Bills have been doing this for 17 years at least. They don't really care about building a winning team; they care about employing their pals, and as long as fans keep buying their songs and dances, they'll keep shoveling the manure ... all the way to the bank.

[Gunsgoodtime]

None of the best, most consistently SB competitive organizations in football today got there by bottoming out..................so........let's bottom out?

 

I get that you are at the end of your rope but tanking is WAY less effective than building on mediocrity.

Exactly, keep what good talent you have and build on it, not get rid of it and make the team worse, there is a much larger uphill battle at this point, now you have to replace the talent you lost while trying to get better at other positions as well. The most difficult task possible

[Boatdrinks]

Huh? They got rid of one indisputable talent in Watkins. One. He's also a big injury headache.

If you are calling Darby, Gillislee, and Ragland huge talents, well then we definitely disagree on the meaning of the word. Darby was horrible last year. Gillislee is a backup RB and Ragland has never played a snap and hasn't looked good at all.

I didn't call any of them huge talents, but I agree on Watkins. i said they are " gambling huge" on their own drafting... as some or perhaps all of these players had useful talent . You only have so many picks in rounds 1-3 where the best players are typically found. They are ensuring themselves of starting from a talent desert.

[Augie]

No, we're seeing the result of the fundamental incompetence of the Bills organization, despite the change in ownership. The organization is run like some kind of 19th century political machine under the spoils system where the current regime brings in all its cronies and favorites. When the current "leaders" get booted out, the new regime leaders turns out the old and brings in its own cronies and favorites. Rinse, repeat. The Bills have been doing this for 17 years at least. They don't really care about building a winning team; they care about employing their pals, and as long as fans keep buying their songs and dances, they'll keep shoveling the manure ... all the way to the bank.

Stop with the 17 years crap. It's a feeble argument. Rise above that weakness. Start when the Pegulas took over if you wish. Rex was a blunder, and they acted quickly to correct that. Now...rant away with sense.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games.

 

2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination.

 

3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later.

 

4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible.

 

5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore.

 

 

So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick.

 

 

The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success.

Whaley

[dubs]

I didn't call any of them huge talents, but I agree on Watkins. i said they are " gambling huge" on their own drafting... as some or perhaps all of these players had useful talent . You only have so many picks in rounds 1-3 where the best players are typically found. They are ensuring themselves of starting from a talent desert.

I respectfully disagree.

 

I think most of the guys they got rid of other than Watkins are replacement level players, at best. But if they don't fit in the system, then they will play below replacement level.

 

I think most of the guys they got rid of are not really impacting the record (other than Watkins but understand the move). In return they acquire draft picks.

 

It sucks, but understandable, IMHO

[BADOLBILZ]

But you said McDermott created this "**** salad" by getting rid of Watkins, Darby and Ragnuts. The main thrust of this thread is "bad drafting" so if he's able to find three starters from rounds 1-3 over the next three years I guess he's doing ok in your book. I happen to think we'll be happy wit this team next year with many, many rookie contracts which is the foundation for a Championship team (see Seahawks 2012-13).

 

 

Watkins.....starter

Darby........starter

Shaq.........starter

Preston Brown....starter

John Miller.....starter

 

I'm no mathematician but.......that's more than 3 starters from 3 drafts.......no?

 

Seems more like 5 of a possible 8 picks in the first 3 rounds of the previous 3 drafts starting in the NFL......and also with Kujo having started and played well for the Bills last year......Ragnuts and Adolphus jury still out on as NFL players.

 

Say what you want about Whaley but his drafts have yielded a lot of NFL players that have maintained jobs in the league........this was brought up in a recent thread.

 

His main issues were being QB blind and having a weak personality that couldn't convince an owner to let him choose his own HC.......the latter of which no doubt lead to having to choose 3 "need" players for Rex in 2016 in what I called an "uninspired" draft class.

[Putin]

1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games.

 

2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination.

 

3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later.

 

4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible.

 

5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore.

 

 

So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick.

 

 

The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success.

The EJ Manual pick is what set us back , we passed on couple of good starting QB's because of it ,

I don't think anyone here would have complained about

Carr throwing bombs to Watkins

[BringBackFergy]

 

 

Watkins.....starter

Darby........starter

Shaq.........starter

Preston Brown....starter

John Miller.....starter

 

I'm no mathematician but.......that's more than 3 starters from 3 drafts.......no?

 

Seems more like 5 of a possible 8 picks in the first 3 rounds of the previous 3 drafts starting in the NFL......and also with Kujo having started and played well for the Bills last year......Ragnuts and Adolphus jury still out on as NFL players.

 

Say what you want about Whaley but his drafts have yielded a lot of NFL players that have maintained jobs in the league........this was brought up in a recent thread.

 

His main issues were being QB blind and having a weak personality that couldn't convince an owner to let him choose his own HC.......the latter of which no doubt lead to having to choose 3 "need" players for Rex in 2016 in what I called an "uninspired" draft class.

Your last paragraph is dead on.

[Mat68]

It is a mess and it seems more and more that Beane and McDermott are determined to get rid of anyone they didn't bring in. I still can't understand how Watkins and Darby specifically wouldn't be helpful long-term.

Watkins was oft injured and they were not going to pay big bucks for... I think they felt Gaines would be a suitable replacememt for Darby and a better scheme fit. Getting Matthews gaines and a 2nd amd 3rd wouldnt hurt too bad now but set them up to reshape the franchise next year. Ragland for whatever reason drop down the depth chart and was not making the team for any other reason he was a 2nd rd pick.

[JohnC]

 

 

Again......someone making no sense.

 

McDermott got rid of Watkins, Kujo, Darby and Ragnuts........and appears to want to dump Miller too.

 

And Shaq and Preston Brown still have starting jobs.

 

An educated guess is that they would ALL be here still with most coaches so let's not act like they played themselves off the roster just to prop up the new HC.

With the exception of Watkins the players you mentioned were not players that were influential players. Kujo? He was a draft mistake. Darby? After a stellar rookie year he not only was a liability last year he was also not suited for McDermott's zone scheme. Ragland also didn't fit the coach's system.

 

Whether the players listed would have remained with a different coach doesn't change the fact that they weren't the type of players whose replacements couldn't play as well or better. You and others are trying to portray the situation that without the departed players this team was on the verge of breaking through the wall of irrelevance. Stop it! The team that Whaley assembled was at best perennial mediocre teams fighting to be a fringe wild-card team. That might be good enough for you but not for me.

 

The one thing that I like what McDermott/Beane are doing is accumulating picks to build a better roster. That is certainly a better long-term approach than gratuitously giving away picks to get fewer players who will still not get this team over the hump of wretched mediocrity.

 

This is not a quick fix. And the ugly truth is that there was never going to be a fix as long as the organization functioned as it has over the past generation or slow. I'll take the McDermott more strategic roster busting approach than the Whaley patchwork approach that has gotten us nowhere but stuck in the muck of mediocrity.

[Section242]

All the posters complaining about trading good young players (Watkins, Darby) are assuming those guys would be here for years to come. Watkins is going to get huge money from somewhere after this season, and at that point the Bills still won't have their QB to make staying look attractive. Darby saw Gilmore cash in, and he was ready to bail immediately. We wouldn't have had either of those guys next year, face it. And McBeane doesn't expect to win this year. So, do the math. Get what you can.

 

For those listing all the draft picks left from 2013-16 (not many), yes, that's really bad. But at least we traded Alonso, a good player, for Shady, a great player. But even with that, those drafts are the reason we're not going anywhere this year.

 

Or they could've picked up the option. The Bills do a pretty good job of drafting terribly so they probably won't have to pay anybody big money in the next few years.

 

McCoy is a good player, but running backs have no value. The Bills have topped out at mediocre for 17 years. They value running backs but don't value Qb's. They want to play 1970's football.

 

Whaley ran this draft just like Nix took Manuel. I don't get why if this was the plan they brought Taylor back. Also why wouldn't they draft Mahomes or Watson? Next year's the year to get a QB right? Well that's if everything falls right and they're picking ahead of the Jets, 9ers, Jags.