GG Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I wonder who made that Alonzo for Shady deal? Was it the same guy who traded down on draft day to get an extra second round pick that he used to draft Alonzo in the first place? Not sure what your point is. I thought your argument is that McBeans are simply throwing out Whaley's gems.
Bill_with_it Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 What mess did Whaley leave? I could've sworn it was Rex who took a top 5 defense and made it an absolute cluster !@#$. Whaleys issue was being QB ignorant. The team wasn't lacking talent. http://m.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/19b740de-0ca3-4dd6-8fdc-58c0cf013fa2"I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page."
HT02 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I'm not sure what's so hard to understand, Darby didn't fit our scheme on defense and was also benched at times last season for poor play. Watkins has a ton of talent but can't stay healthy, can't pay a guy a ton of money who doesn't stay on the field, otherwise we'll have 2 Marcell's Dareus is an immature self-absorbed young man, any comparison of him to Watkins is a huge stretch if not a complete non-sequitur.
dubs Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 You make it sound as if these players are gone, without any compensation. Here's a better chart to compare & contrast Sammy Watkins - Matthews Mike Gillislee - JW Ron Darby EJ Gaines Robert Woods - Zay Cyrus Koundjio - ??? Stephon Gilmore - White Chris Hogan - Open Kiko Alonzo - Shady Plus, 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd. It's not like the cupboard is barren al of a sudden Also and plus, Cyrus K just got cut. Hah!
Perry Turtle Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I find it difficult to believe that a GM couldn't build a winner with the talent Beane inherited. The team does need a QB, and Beane could have drafted one this year, but decided to defer to next year, acquiring an additional first round pick. Last season, the Bills were a .500 team mostly due to an F'ed-up defensive scheme and limitations at QB. However, if you could have combined Schwartz's defense with Roman's offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. The best coaches create a scheme based on the talent on the roster. The worst coaches try to jam talent into a pre-determined scheme. The Bills have spent the last 17 years trying to cram talent into the scheme of the latest lame-brained coach they hired. And the GMs have gone along with the ride. Roster-building be damned. It's always been 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I don't want a coach that talks about process or culture or scheme. I want a coach that maximizes the talents of a Watkins or Dareus or Hughes. I want Marv Levy adopting the no huddle. Mike Tomlin abandoning his Tampa 2 scheme for Dick LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitzing scheme. Bill Bilichick adjusting to a deep passing scheme with Randy Moss on the roster. All off season I've been looking for signs that Beane and McDermott were going to maximize the Bills talent on the roster. That we fans wouldn't have to go through yet another rebuild. That McDermott wasn't another one of those clueless coaches that reject a majority of the talent in the league because a player don't fit the definition of being one of "my guys." I don't know, maybe it'll work for McDermott where it didn't work for Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, or Rex. Hopefully McDermott can be successful doing the same thing that these other guys failed trying to do.
Boatdrinks Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I find it difficult to believe that a GM couldn't build a winner with the talent Beane inherited. The team does need a QB, and Beane could have drafted one this year, but decided to defer to next year, acquiring an additional first round pick. Last season, the Bills were a .500 team mostly due to an F'ed-up defensive scheme and limitations at QB. However, if you could have combined Schwartz's defense with Roman's offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. The best coaches create a scheme based on the talent on the roster. The worst coaches try to jam talent into a pre-determined scheme. The Bills have spent the last 17 years trying to cram talent into the scheme of the latest lame-brained coach they hired. And the GMs have gone along with the ride. Roster-building be damned. It's always been 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I don't want a coach that talks about process or culture or scheme. I want a coach that maximizes the talents of a Watkins or Dareus or Hughes. I want Marv Levy adopting the no huddle. Mike Tomlin abandoning his Tampa 2 scheme for Dick LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitzing scheme. Bill Bilichick adjusting to a deep passing scheme with Randy Moss on the roster. All off season I've been looking for signs that Beane and McDermott were going to maximize the Bills talent on the roster. That we fans wouldn't have to go through yet another rebuild. That McDermott wasn't another one of those clueless coaches that reject a majority of the talent in the league because a player don't fit the definition of being one of "my guys." I don't know, maybe it'll work for McDermott where it didn't work for Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, or Rex. Hopefully McDermott can be successful doing the same thing that these other guys failed trying to do. I'm going to say I highly doubt it. This teardown/ rebuild will take more years than McBeane duo will get. Should have hired Wade Phillips. One of the few that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. He'll run what's best for the players he's got.
CodeMonkey Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I find it difficult to believe that a GM couldn't build a winner with the talent Beane inherited. The team does need a QB, and Beane could have drafted one this year, but decided to defer to next year, acquiring an additional first round pick. This, above all else, gives me hope for the future.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I find it difficult to believe that a GM couldn't build a winner with the talent Beane inherited. The team does need a QB, and Beane could have drafted one this year, but decided to defer to next year, acquiring an additional first round pick. Last season, the Bills were a .500 team mostly due to an F'ed-up defensive scheme and limitations at QB. However, if you could have combined Schwartz's defense with Roman's offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. The best coaches create a scheme based on the talent on the roster. The worst coaches try to jam talent into a pre-determined scheme. The Bills have spent the last 17 years trying to cram talent into the scheme of the latest lame-brained coach they hired. And the GMs have gone along with the ride. Roster-building be damned. It's always been 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I don't want a coach that talks about process or culture or scheme. I want a coach that maximizes the talents of a Watkins or Dareus or Hughes. I want Marv Levy adopting the no huddle. Mike Tomlin abandoning his Tampa 2 scheme for Dick LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitzing scheme. Bill Bilichick adjusting to a deep passing scheme with Randy Moss on the roster. All off season I've been looking for signs that Beane and McDermott were going to maximize the Bills talent on the roster. That we fans wouldn't have to go through yet another rebuild. That McDermott wasn't another one of those clueless coaches that reject a majority of the talent in the league because a player don't fit the definition of being one of "my guys." I don't know, maybe it'll work for McDermott where it didn't work for Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, or Rex. Hopefully McDermott can be successful doing the same thing that these other guys failed trying to do. That was likely McDermott as Beane was still with Carolina at the time of the draft.
CodeMonkey Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 That was likely McDermott as Beane was still with Carolina at the time of the draft. Why are you harshing my buzz man
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games. 2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination. 3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later. 4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible. 5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore. So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick. The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success. To be fair, we didn't miss on talent with Watkins, he had some bad luck injury issues, they were right about the player talent. It didn't ultimately play out to our advantage, but that is not the fault of the regime. Had Watkins played without injury, he would be as highly regarded as Mike Evans and OBJ and no one would be complaining. Darby is way too early to be declared a miss in terms of talent. He had one really good year, and a then a down year in a defensive system that was ruined by the coaches. Everything out of Eagles camp is that Darby has been having a great camp with them. He had one really good preseason game, and a bad one...but he's learning a new defensive system, 3rd in 2 years, and only been in it a couple weeks. So hard to say the FO missed on those guys because a different FO decided they didn't want to retain them and preferred picks. In fact, we would be a better football team right now with those guys on them and thats pretty obvious. And with Karlos, this kid balled out then ruined his own career, again, hard to fault the FO on that. Not making excuses for the FO, but some things are outside their control like Sammys foot and Karlos going off the rails after a great start to his career. But yes I agree, its pretty frustrating to say the least that so many of those guys didn't work out or are no longer here.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games. 2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination. 3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later. 4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible. 5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore. So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick. The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success. As bad as those drafts have been I'm still waiting to be epically bad so we can finally get a QB, we haven't held the #1 overall pick since 1985 who just happened to be the the all time leader in sacks a HOFer Bruce Smith, Let's be epically bad this 1 more time.
JM2009 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Joe BuscagliaVerified account @JoeBuscaglia 48m48 minutes agoMore File this Sean McDermott quote away for the future on when to play a young QB: "You want to make sure you have an OL to protect a young QB." Jerry Sullivan @ByJerrySullivan 3h3 hours agoMore Only 8 Bills left who were on team when Rex Ryan was hired: Kyle Williams, Wood, Dareus, Glenn, Henderson, Preston Brown, Hughes, Schmidt.
billz4life820 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 according to must bills fans doug whaley was a great gm though
Wayne Cubed Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Jerry Sullivan @ByJerrySullivan 3h3 hours ago More Only 8 Bills left who were on team when Rex Ryan was hired: Kyle Williams, Wood, Dareus, Glenn, Henderson, Preston Brown, Hughes, Schmidt. By the time the Bills form a competitive team again, it could possibly be down just 2, seeing as they like to unload young talent they didn't draft.
dubs Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 By the time the Bills form a competitive team again, it could possibly be down just 2, seeing as they like to unload young talent they didn't draft. Hah! None of those guys you crossed out are or will be "young" if they get rid of them. But other than that, yeah
apuszczalowski Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Everyone makes it out to send like the Bills are the only ones to do this. Like they are the only ones hiring coaches with different schemes. How many coaches are available each year that run similar schemes to what you run? How many coaches run the same defence and offence as others? Bad teams change coaches and schemes, not all players fit these schemes, even the best ones. Most teams will try to hire coaches who's schemes fit what they have to maximise talent, some want the best coaches and will try to fit the talent. Until you hit on coaching and talent, there's going to be alot of turnover To be fair, we didn't miss on talent with Watkins, he had some bad luck injury issues, they were right about the player talent. It didn't ultimately play out to our advantage, but that is not the fault of the regime. Had Watkins played without injury, he would be as highly regarded as Mike Evans and OBJ and no one would be complaining. Darby is way too early to be declared a miss in terms of talent. He had one really good year, and a then a down year in a defensive system that was ruined by the coaches. Everything out of Eagles camp is that Darby has been having a great camp with them. He had one really good preseason game, and a bad one...but he's learning a new defensive system, 3rd in 2 years, and only been in it a couple weeks. So hard to say the FO missed on those guys because a different FO decided they didn't want to retain them and preferred picks. In fact, we would be a better football team right now with those guys on them and thats pretty obvious. And with Karlos, this kid balled out then ruined his own career, again, hard to fault the FO on that. Not making excuses for the FO, but some things are outside their control like Sammys foot and Karlos going off the rails after a great start to his career. But yes I agree, its pretty frustrating to say the least that so many of those guys didn't work out or are no longer here. you could argue that the GM could have seen issues with Carlos because of past issues with him. It's not like they don't look into off field stuff in these guys before they are drafted. As for Darby, is it really a new system? Was he not here when Schwartz was or did he get drafted in Rexs first year?
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) I find it difficult to believe that a GM couldn't build a winner with the talent Beane inherited. The team does need a QB, and Beane could have drafted one this year, but decided to defer to next year, acquiring an additional first round pick. Last season, the Bills were a .500 team mostly due to an F'ed-up defensive scheme and limitations at QB. However, if you could have combined Schwartz's defense with Roman's offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. The best coaches create a scheme based on the talent on the roster. The worst coaches try to jam talent into a pre-determined scheme. The Bills have spent the last 17 years trying to cram talent into the scheme of the latest lame-brained coach they hired. And the GMs have gone along with the ride. Roster-building be damned. It's always been 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I don't want a coach that talks about process or culture or scheme. I want a coach that maximizes the talents of a Watkins or Dareus or Hughes. I want Marv Levy adopting the no huddle. Mike Tomlin abandoning his Tampa 2 scheme for Dick LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitzing scheme. Bill Bilichick adjusting to a deep passing scheme with Randy Moss on the roster. All off season I've been looking for signs that Beane and McDermott were going to maximize the Bills talent on the roster. That we fans wouldn't have to go through yet another rebuild. That McDermott wasn't another one of those clueless coaches that reject a majority of the talent in the league because a player don't fit the definition of being one of "my guys." I don't know, maybe it'll work for McDermott where it didn't work for Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, or Rex. Hopefully McDermott can be successful doing the same thing that these other guys failed trying to do. Beane wasn't here yet when the draft happened. Whaley wasn't even fired yet. Edited August 30, 2017 by Scott7975
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Brand wasn't here yet when the draft happened. Whaley wasn't even fired yet. The Brand new guy must be under the radar.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Why are you harshing my buzz man Because this is the thread of legendary tears, man.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Everyone makes it out to send like the Bills are the only ones to do this. Like they are the only ones hiring coaches with different schemes. How many coaches are available each year that run similar schemes to what you run? How many coaches run the same defence and offence as others? Bad teams change coaches and schemes, not all players fit these schemes, even the best ones. Most teams will try to hire coaches who's schemes fit what they have to maximise talent, some want the best coaches and will try to fit the talent. Until you hit on coaching and talent, there's going to be alot of turnover you could argue that the GM could have seen issues with Carlos because of past issues with him. It's not like they don't look into off field stuff in these guys before they are drafted. As for Darby, is it really a new system? Was he not here when Schwartz was or did he get drafted in Rexs first year? Drafted here by Rex, its his 3rd scheme in one year. Last year was Rex, then the new one under McD this year, and now Schwartz. 3 schemes already in literally one single season since this one hasnt kicked off yet.
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