GG Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 This is about 85% of my argument and this falls on ownership. When ownership interviews potential GM's/coaches and they discuss the plans for the team, if the GM starts saying Darby, Sammy, Ragland, etc. don't fit into their plans, then you seriously need to consider WTF the plan is going to be going forward Ragland is 23 and just came off a major injury. Even if he doesn't start immediately, is his upside any worse than a 4th round draft pick in....2019?? Many of the people complaining about the trade were appalled last year at the high pick of a slow, limited use LB.
Boatdrinks Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 This is about 85% of my argument and this falls on ownership. When ownership interviews potential GM's/coaches and they discuss the plans for the team, if the GM starts saying Darby, Sammy, Ragland, etc. don't fit into their plans, then you seriously need to consider WTF the plan is going to be going forward Ragland is 23 and just came off a major injury. Even if he doesn't start immediately, is his upside any worse than a 4th round draft pick in....2019?? You are 100% right. So it appears the conversation was something like .. " so you are going to trade our 2014 /2015 first rounder, our 2015 2nd rounder, and our 2016 2nd /4th rounder for lower picks so you can run a defensive scheme that is suited to Dareus then draft their replacements? Russ, can you hand me my pen ?.....
mileena Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games. 2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination. 3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later. 4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible. 5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore. So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick. The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success. You forgot our 2016 2nd and 3rd round picks. Plus we lost Stephon Gillmore, Chris Hogan, and Mike Giillislee all to one team in our division. This is about 85% of my argument and this falls on ownership. When ownership interviews potential GM's/coaches and they discuss the plans for the team, if the GM starts saying Darby, Sammy, Ragland, etc. don't fit into their plans, then you seriously need to consider WTF the plan is going to be going forward Ragland is 23 and just came off a major injury. Even if he doesn't start immediately, is his upside any worse than a 4th round draft pick in....2019?? What upside? He has consistently shown this season that he can't perform in a 4-3 scheme. I'll take the 4th rounder.
Section242 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Ragland and Darby were not good fits for the new coach's system. Players are going to be added who fit the system and players are going to be discarded who don't. At least this new regime is adding picks instead of giving away picks. I'll say it again that the roster that McDermott inherited was not as good as many are portraying it to be. It wasn't even close to being a playoff team. McDermott was on board when they traded up for Jones and Dawkins.
HT02 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 And they publicly state this is not the case. Seeing is believing. I'm with you Watkins was oft injured and they were not going to pay big bucks for... I think they felt Gaines would be a suitable replacememt for Darby and a better scheme fit. Getting Matthews gaines and a 2nd amd 3rd wouldnt hurt too bad now but set them up to reshape the franchise next year. Ragland for whatever reason drop down the depth chart and was not making the team for any other reason he was a 2nd rd pick. I understand all those points and I appreciate that they may be stockpiling draft picks to move up and take a QB next year but I think the Bills are a less talented team without Watkins and Darby.
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Darby was named rookie of the year by PFF. Yes, it's PFF, but Darby had an awesome Rookie season. He had a bad year 2. However, the circus that was Rex I'm sure didn't help anyone development. To give up on a player like that is ridiculous. He's 23 years old. Miller has been solid on the O-line and was a part of an Oline that dominated the league in the run game. Watkins has the potential to be a perennial pro bowler. None of those 3 players are "EJ bad" Darby is better suited to play man corner. We run zone schemes. Square peg round hole thing that people complain about. They aren't going to change defensive philosophy over 1 player. Miller is below average period. Agree on Watkins. They surely could use him.
Helpmenow Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Yea. Pegula basically gave the keys to McEgo to do whatever the hell he wanted and stay out of the way. I'm not sure why considering he's been a career average coach with no experience as a GM to this point. Just Pegs being in over his head. So all these guys that were drafted can't play in opie's scheme. Find that hard to believe
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Yet it was a team that was in the hunt the last two years. I don't know how you can say not even close, when they were pretty f#@$infg close the last two seasons. At what point last season did they look in the hunt? They were terrible on defense and offense was great against weak teams. Couple that with being against the cap. The team was set for failure with all the cap dollars spent just to be "in the hunt"
McBean Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Doug Whaley was good. I mean come on.. he was from Pittsburgh everybody!
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) You want to assemble draft picks? Great. Trading young talented players to get those picks makes little sense. Disagree. You fix the defense with the same offense from last year and this team is right in the middle of a wildcard fight. How bout fitting your scheme to the TALENTED players available? Something I wish one Bills coach would understand. One day. There aren't too many coaches that fit their scheme to the players available. I actually cant think of any. Please tell which coach would employ a 3-4 scheme, that wasn't working to begin with, because Darby. I suppose they could do a 4-3 and stick with man coverage, but what if the rest of the dimebacks are better in zone? There aren't any coaches that use Romans playbook either. Edited August 29, 2017 by Scott7975
McBean Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 You want to assemble draft picks? Great. Trading young talented players to get those picks makes little sense. Disagree. You fix the defense with the same offense from last year and this team is right in the middle of a wildcard fight. And this thinking right here is the reason we've sucked forever. "Middle of a wildcard fight." While the Pats, Packers, Chiefs, Seahawks, and Raiders are preparing for a CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON, we are wanting a wildcard spot only. A wildcard spot... It's mind blowing how low expectations some fans have set for this team. Sad!
Boatdrinks Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 And this thinking right here is the reason we've sucked forever. "Middle of a wildcard fight." While the Pats, Packers, Chiefs, Seahawks, and Raiders are preparing for a CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON, we are wanting a wildcard spot only. A wildcard spot... It's mind blowing how low expectations some fans have set for this team. Sad! You have to try to win while looking for that QB. That might mean a wildcard berth. Many teams have done this. How many Super Bowl winners in recent memory missed the playoffs 3 or more years in a row previous to wiinning it all?
Fadingpain Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 And this thinking right here is the reason we've sucked forever. "Middle of a wildcard fight." While the Pats, Packers, Chiefs, Seahawks, and Raiders are preparing for a CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON, we are wanting a wildcard spot only. A wildcard spot... It's mind blowing how low expectations some fans have set for this team. Sad! Yeah well as long as Brady is playing at his usual level, NE is in our division, and the playoff structure of the NFL remains unchanged, we only have a shot at the wildcard. That's just how it is.
dubs Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Yea. Pegula basically gave the keys to McEgo to do whatever the hell he wanted and stay out of the way. I'm not sure why considering he's been a career average coach with no experience as a GM to this point. Just Pegs being in over his head. I'm blown away by this post. It's preseason of his first go around. They've made, arguably, some very smart, forward looking moves. You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think this team was headed in the right direction prior to the regime turnover. You may not think it'll work out now, you may not agree with these moves, but only time will tell. At least they have a plan, are bold, and in sync with one another. That tends to work out better than what the bills have had in the past. Pump the brakes a bit on the negative train. Just see what happens.
JustWinPlease Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Hello! @IanKenyonNFL What the bills are doing would make a lot more sense if they were trading aging vets instead of good 22-23 year old players Amen. My thoughts, exactly! That's why the Jets and Browns are doing it right...they got rid of all their old player, and kept the young players. I would agree with this. Wouldn't it be easier to keep those players and figure out what to do with one guy( Dareus) in a year or so? I mean,MD is the reason why they are running a 4-3. Not an aging KW, not JH , heck not even SL. Essentially they are purging talent to keep Dareus as a 4-3 DT. Is this serious? Marcell Dareus would make a great 3-4 defensive end. They're running a 4-3 because that is what Sean McDermott has always run, that is his defensive system. Marcell Dareus fits in a 3-4 better than Kyle Williams, Jerry Hughes and Shaq Lawson. Lol.
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 How do you figure? These guys are NO different then the guys we've hadn't in the past. Maybe worse. I was no Whaley fan but he had a good eye for talented players. As sad as it sounds, the last three years were the best this franchise has done in quite a long time and the talent level was among the best they've had since the early 2000s. McDermott and Beane are stripping that down to zilch. Trading/releasing/not resigning YOUNG TALENT. It can always get worse and it will these next two years, IMO. The team was built completely the wrong way. Sure they had talent but they didn't have synergy and that was Whaleys problem. Its easy to run out there and spend tons of money in FA, resigning players that perform, and trade draft picks away. The problem with that is dream teams never work. Left us with low amount of draft picks, low amount of cap space. You cant improve your team with limited cap space and draft picks. Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. This season was going to be bad with or without those trades. Next season might be bad too. If year three is still bad then perhaps they suck. We aren't there yet.
dubs Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 How do you figure? These guys are NO different then the guys we've hadn't in the past. Maybe worse. I was no Whaley fan but he had a good eye for talented players. As sad as it sounds, the last three years were the best this franchise has done in quite a long time and the talent level was among the best they've had since the early 2000s. McDermott and Beane are stripping that down to zilch. Trading/releasing/not resigning YOUNG TALENT. It can always get worse and it will these next two years, IMO. You're not basing this on anything other than some very questionable opinions about some fairly marginal talent. If these guys were all so good, why have they missed the playoffs. Why only get 3rds and 4ths for them. Why were they drafted in mid rounds. If this regime doesn't work out, it'll be because of bad future drafts and missing on QBs. Not because they got rid of Darby, Ragland, Woods, Goodwin, Cyrus K, etc...
bobobonators Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 Many of the people complaining about the trade were appalled last year at the high pick of a slow, limited use LB. I was not. But I get what you're saying.
Scott7975 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Amen. My thoughts, exactly! That's why the Jets and Browns are doing it right...they got rid of all their old player, and kept the young players. Is this serious? Marcell Dareus would make a great 3-4 defensive end. They're running a 4-3 because that is what Sean McDermott has always run, that is his defensive system. Marcell Dareus fits in a 3-4 better than Kyle Williams, Jerry Hughes and Shaq Lawson. Lol. Dareus had 5.5 sacks total over the last two years of being in a 3-4. He had 10 sacks under a 4-3 in one season
KOKBILLS Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1. We gave up a 2015 1st round pick and 2015 4th round pick to move up and get Watkins. He is gone 3yrs later and missed like 30% of his games. 2. Cyrus was our 2nd round pick in 2014. He is an abomination. 3. Our first pick in 2015 was 2nd round pick Darby. He is gone 2 years later. 4. Our 2nd pick in 2015, 3rd rounder John Miller, is barely a starter and may get beat out by Ducasse, who is horrible. 5. Our 3rd pick in 2015, 5th rounder Karlos Williams isn't even in the NFL anymore. So to recap: We missed on our 2014 1st round pick; we gave up our 2015 1st round pick; we missed on our 2014 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 2nd round pick; we missed on our 2015 3rd round pick. The 2014-2015 draft classes have set this team back at least 5 years. A blind monkey could have thrown darts at the draft board and had more success. This is all true...So I think it's important to at least acknowledge that Beane and McD have accumulated 12 picks in Rounds 1-4 over the next two Drafts...And that's just so far... It's going to be tough to swallow over the next couple years...But hopefully by the 2019 season we will begin to see the fruits of it...
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