Bills Pimpin' Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I invested nothing in Ragland. They drafted him, he got an ACL, whether or not that ACL recovery affected his performance or not, scheme, whatever, but he was not performing at a level that warranted a roster spot. I'm frankly surprised they got a fourth in a trade; I figured teams would wait till cut down day if they wanted to give him a shot. It's a performance league. You don't seem to grasp that. The kid was good in college. Not every great college player makes it in the pros. You can o on and on about losing talented players all you want, but the kid just had not exhibited the kind of talent you think he has. And they didn't give him away. They got a fourth for him. Giving away means you get nothing in return. And don't even star with the "they didn't get enough" stuff. I am sure Beane did what GMs do and talked to folks around the league to gauge interest. Well that should just about take care of this thread. Well said oldman.
Nervous Guy Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 National media responses to the trade: http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/08/national_media_reacts_to_buffalo_bills_trading_reggie_ragland.html so do we like or hate the national media?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 so do we like or hate the national media? Neither. Just good to see what the perspective is from non-interested parties.
Nervous Guy Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Neither. Just good to see what the perspective is from non-interested parties. Seems like they think it's a good idea...
BringBackOrton Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 He will get more than that. His hands are excellent. Well, we did have folks betting he had more sacks than Mario his rookie year. Let's hit 5 before we say he can do more than that.
GunnerBill Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Well, we did have folks betting he had more sacks than Mario his rookie year. Let's hit 5 before we say he can do more than that. And those predictions are clearly ridiculous. I've set 8 as the over/under. If he gets more than 8 - great, if he gets fewer than 8 - disappointing.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Seems like they think it's a good idea... It does indeed from those who opined on the deal.
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I don't seem to grasp that? The kid has barely played an NFL down and suffered an ACL injury just a year ago. Very premature to trade him based on a few preseason games with his potential. Is that why they traded Sammy for a 2nd round pick? He didn't perform in this league? You don't win on potential. Again he was a third string LB. at best they could have put him on IR. Instead they got another pick for him. And the Watkins thing has nothing to do with Ragland. Plus I have said more times than I can count now that I did not like the Watkins trade. You always try to deflect when you're losing an argument.
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 They aren't winning this year anyway. Who says I'm losing the argument? They just traded away a LB with a very good college career who has a year out from an ACL injury for a 4th round pick in 2019. Premature trade. when you say it's premature you lose the argument. Because you'd keep him over a guy who has outperformed him on the field. That is not the way to build a roster.
CommonCents Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 They got something in return for nothing. Ragland was a mistake from the previous group of know it alls. He was limited coming out of college, looked fluffy in last years TC before blowing out his knee. Anyone that was expecting an impact LB was listening way too much to that Rex Ryan **** talk. 2016 He looks great in camp! 2017 He is the best player on that Bills team! Rex Ryan is the gift that keeps on giving. I can't wait to hear his expectations for Rags in KC.
May Day 10 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Chuck Knox said something along the lines that, Buffalo is a coaches graveyard. It's true. Yes it is. A lot of it is self-inflicted. Chan Gailey, for instance, was not a serious hire. I cant speak to the pre-polian days, but post-Donahoe, the power structure of this team has been designed in a way to completely undermine the head coach and GM (and I know Donahoe battled these forces throughout his tenure). We have had patsies like Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley who were fine with capitulating to the real decision makers in Wilson, Littman, Brandon, and Overdorf. By extension the coach gets damaged clay to work with.... and as a result, finding serious candidates to take the position is likely a challenge.... if they even bothered to try. This is new, and refreshing. It appears we have the football-leadership centralized solely on a head coach and GM, who apparently have been given the green light to take a sledgehammer to the program, even if wins will take a back seat for a year or two. I expect 4-5 wins this season, but havent been this optimistic about the Bills in maybe 15 years Edited August 29, 2017 by May Day 10
nucci Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Yes it is. A lot of it is self-inflicted. Chan Gailey, for instance, was not a serious hire. I cant speak to the pre-polian days, but post-Donahoe, the power structure of this team has been designed in a way to completely undermine the head coach and GM (and I know Donahoe battled these forces throughout his tenure). We have had patsies like Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley who were fine with capitulating to the real decision makers in Wilson, Littman, Brandon, and Overdorf. By extension the coach gets damaged clay to work with.... and as a result, finding serious candidates to take the position is likely a challenge.... if they even bothered to try. This is new, and refreshing. It appears we have the football-leadership centralized solely on a head coach and GM, who apparently have been given the green light to take a sledgehammer to the program, even if wins will take a back seat for a year or two. I expect 4-5 wins this season, but havent been this optimistic about the Bills in maybe 15 years Same thing happened with the Sabres and Pegula fired Murray after 3 years....if Bills go 2-14 for a couple of years I'm curious how Pegula's will react
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 He won't know what to do. The guys way in over his head. He essentially hired some nobodies to do whatever they want. McDermott was one of the coaches that the NFL committee that makes recomemndations of good HC candidates had on their list. Guys like Dungy and I believe Polian are on that committee. But of course you know more than them, and you somehow know he was a nobody. Beane likewise was a well respected up and comer. and he in turn has hired a number of personnel guys that are well respected. But of course you know best.
KGun12TD Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Any picks we can pick up wheather it is 2018 or 2019 is better than just cutting a player and not getting anything... THIS!!! All day!!!
May Day 10 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Same thing happened with the Sabres and Pegula fired Murray after 3 years....if Bills go 2-14 for a couple of years I'm curious how Pegula's will react It was different in that case. Regier actually started the rebuild... and was doing kind of marvelously at it. He purged the roster, the team had accumulated a ton of draft picks and prospects. The fans strongly distrusted WHAT Regier would do with the assets and there was a pretty clear revolt that forced Pegula's hand. 17 years of the guy had worn everyone thin. Murray was supposed to be some sort of savant as far as identifying talent. With all those assets, he failed to bring in much. A number of guys he once scouted that he overpaid for (Kane, Bogosian, Lehner, etc)... He traded a ton of picks for questionable returns, such as 2-2nd round picks and Brayden McNabb (who was a good prospect at the time) for Fasching and Deslauriers. A 3rd for Veseys rights, 1st for Lehner, and so on... By the end of this season, with the Sabres had taken a step back, and Rochester being awful yet again... it was pretty clear that Murray had messed things up pretty badly and things had stalled out. I also feel pretty confident, watching his demeanor.... that he is not a good high-level manager at all. Edited August 29, 2017 by May Day 10
nucci Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 McDermott was one of the coaches that the NFL committee that makes recomemndations of good HC candidates had on their list. Guys like Dungy and I believe Polian are on that committee. But of course you know more than them, and you somehow know he was a nobody. Beane likewise was a well respected up and comer. and he in turn has hired a number of personnel guys that are well respected. But of course you know best. I don't agree they are nobodies but don't say just because they come recommended that they will be successful. I think they can be but we have impatient owners who so far don't seem to think long term
4merper4mer Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Satan the Ogre focuses on the following: - Influence the league to change rules. Grudge match with no PI when Brady's starting out, then PI every down and no hits when Brady's a star. That last bullet point is why I hate the fat drunk Kraft the most. Because when Brady is gone, it will be back to grudge match. And if you think he is done trying to undermine Buffalo keeping the team you are sadly mistaken. I'm not saying he'll succeed in that effort but he is trying and will continue.
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I don't agree they are nobodies but don't say just because they come recommended that they will be successful. I think they can be but we have impatient owners who so far don't seem to think long term Let's put it this way. Let's say you were looking to hire a chief executive for your company. Most firms like that use executive search firms to identify the most qualified candidates. Of course it does not guarantee success, but it does tell you that the guy you've hired has been vetted by folks who know what to look for. I have no idea whether McDermott will succeed or not. I like that he and Beane have a plan to build through the draft, and that they are walking in synch to work that plan. I can confidently state however that neither of them were nobodies in the NFL, and that they were each highly thought of by folks who actually know what's going on in the league.
teef Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Polian also loved Dick Jauron. How'd that work out? And Greggo knew more then the fans. So did Donahoe. So did Nix. So did Russ, etc, etc, etc. All I can do is judge em based on the moves they've made since being apart of the organization. I'm scratching my head at most. But if you want to blindly follow these guys by all means go for it. scott, i don't think anyone is blindly following what the bills are doing. i see what's happening, and i don't understand/agree with it completely, but there's nothing we can do but watch and wait. the difference is that some decide not to B word constantly about it. some poster's entire history deal with them just shooting out insults and one liners about how awful the team is, how bad the management is, etc. these people literally can't carry on a normal conversation. just because some don't constantly complain doesn't mean they're on board with everything.
Royale with Cheese Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 scott, i don't think anyone is blindly following what the bills are doing. i see what's happening, and i don't understand/agree with it completely, but there's nothing we can do but watch and wait. the difference is that some decide not to B word constantly about it. some poster's entire history deal with them just shooting out insults and one liners about how awful the team is, how bad the management is, etc. these people literally can't carry on a normal conversation. just because some don't constantly complain doesn't mean they're on board with everything. He's just so scorned. Hell hath no fury like a scorned Bills fan.
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