Some quick thoughts re turnover, coaches and direction

[jahnyc]

A couple of quick thoughts:

 

1. Not unusual to have player turnover with a new GM, head coach and coaching staff, but it does seem unusual that the Bills have parted ways with a number of younger players. Gilmore, Gillislee, Darby, Woods, Goodwin (yes, I know he has been injured a lot) and Watkins (same) are all in their prime or approaching their prime. If you add Hogan to this list, this would not seem to be a bad core to start building with. Still surprised that the Bills did not re-sign Gillislee, even with Williams as a back-up running back. I think next year we will see some veteran players released because their bad contracts made it prohibitively expensive to cut them this year (Clay and potentially Dareus).

 

2. Seems that the defense will potentially improve this year, but the offense will take a step back. I know that many posters did not like the Roman offensive system, but it was at least effective at times. Way too early to be making these kind of judgments (it is only preseason), but I am concerned that the new scheme under Dennison will either take time to fully implement or will prove to be ill-suited to our offensive personnel.

 

3. I am worried about the o-line. Was Kromer a great coach? Was it the scheme that hid the weaknesses of this group? We will find out when the regular season begins, but the right side of the o-line is scaring me.

 

4. With a new regime comes a new coaching staff, and it always seems there are improvements and disappointments with our positional coaches. I think we will miss some of our old coaches (i.e., Kromer) and it never seems that we can make improvements in the staff across the board from the prior staff. We would have a good staff if we could take the best coaches from the prior regimes and assemble them in to one staff.

 

5. I don't think we will have the worst record in the NFL this season, but we may take a step back from the mediocre records of the last number of years. The Jets are clearly worse than the Bills, and probably Cleveland and other teams. I assume we will be drafting a QB in the first round next year, so I hope we will be able to use the draft picks that we have accumulated on additional players other than trading them all to move up and pick a QB. We will need these draft picks with all of the current roster turnover and likely future roster turnover.

[Dr. Who]

I was hoping we would retain Kromer. Castillo so far does not inspire even a glimmer of hope.

Agree with your takes for the most part.

[Rc2catch]

I think what most seem to be missing so far in the preseason is this is obviously a run first team.

It's not like shady is touching the ball a whole lot and they're unveiling all the run schemes. Not a ton of play action etc etc. I know the line has looked bad but I kinda feel like most of this is due to lack of talent and lack of consistency of running good plays getting a rhythm going.

Not seeing a whole bunch of read option style runs and things of that nature I feel like the defenses we face can basically just play without any real strategy, it's basically a man on man situation and we don't have the talent to win those matchups. Someone always loses their matchup.

I am hoping regular season they open it up some and you see the line getting a rhythm for run blocking.

I do think just like last year pass protection on the right side may be ugly. Only reason I'm still on the tyrod starting train.

I think Peterman would be more successful in this system but id rather not shell shock the poor kid the first few weeks. Tyrod s ability to scramble and avoid defenders covers up some of the lines missed protections

[jahnyc]

I thought I understood that Dennison was changing our blocking scheme to a zone running scheme from a power running scheme. Maybe our o-line is not "built" for this kind of a scheme? If this is the case, and we can't run the ball effectively, then our offense is probably going to take a big step backward.

[Dr. Fong]

I thought I understood that Dennison was changing our blocking scheme to a zone running scheme from a power running scheme. Maybe our o-line is not "built" for this kind of a scheme? If this is the case, and we can't run the ball effectively, then our offense is probably going to take a big step backward.

I'm so !@#$ing sick of hearing about schemes. These are the players we have. Find a way for them to succeed or GTFOH. I mean if you can't adapt your scheme to the personnel already here why the hell did you take the job in the first place. So tired of this endless cycle.

[BADOLBILZ]

A couple of quick thoughts:

 

1. Not unusual to have player turnover with a new GM, head coach and coaching staff, but it does seem unusual that the Bills have parted ways with a number of younger players. Gilmore, Gillislee, Darby, Woods, Goodwin (yes, I know he has been injured a lot) and Watkins (same) are all in their prime or approaching their prime. If you add Hogan to this list, this would not seem to be a bad core to start building with. Still surprised that the Bills did not re-sign Gillislee, even with Williams as a back-up running back. I think next year we will see some veteran players released because their bad contracts made it prohibitively expensive to cut them this year (Clay and potentially Dareus).

 

2. Seems that the defense will potentially improve this year, but the offense will take a step back. I know that many posters did not like the Roman offensive system, but it was at least effective at times. Way too early to be making these kind of judgments (it is only preseason), but I am concerned that the new scheme under Dennison will either take time to fully implement or will prove to be ill-suited to our offensive personnel.

 

3. I am worried about the o-line. Was Kromer a great coach? Was it the scheme that hid the weaknesses of this group? We will find out when the regular season begins, but the right side of the o-line is scaring me.

 

4. With a new regime comes a new coaching staff, and it always seems there are improvements and disappointments with our positional coaches. I think we will miss some of our old coaches (i.e., Kromer) and it never seems that we can make improvements in the staff across the board from the prior staff. We would have a good staff if we could take the best coaches from the prior regimes and assemble them in to one staff.

 

5. I don't think we will have the worst record in the NFL this season, but we may take a step back from the mediocre records of the last number of years. The Jets are clearly worse than the Bills, and probably Cleveland and other teams. I assume we will be drafting a QB in the first round next year, so I hope we will be able to use the draft picks that we have accumulated on additional players other than trading them all to move up and pick a QB. We will need these draft picks with all of the current roster turnover and likely future roster turnover.

 

 

If you can't adjust your schemes to your talent you better be a DAMN GOOD coaching staff.

 

McD might be the best HC we've had during the drought for all we know but the turnover of the roster has been extreme and in a league where the difference in roster strength from good to bad teams is not significant the Bills have taken an unnecessary step back in that regard and IMO that threatens whatever program McD is trying to establish.

[Just in Atlanta]

Agree. Our offense worked. Why blow it up?

 

 

 

I'm so !@#$ing sick of hearing about schemes. These are the players we have. Find a way for them to succeed or GTFOH. I mean if you can't adapt your scheme to the personnel already here why the hell did you take the job in the first place. So tired of this endless cycle.

[NoSaint]

1) it's odd to me too that we gutted the young core of the roster while keeping the vets

 

2) the offensive scheme does not playto the strengths of our qb. Which seems likewise backwards in building this even if TT isn't the answer. Surprised we aren't transitioning the scheme in a way that matches talent.

 

3) kromer is an elite position coach in this league. Among the best of the best at any position on any team.

 

4/5) yup but that's life in the NFL when you don't have the pillars to match a plan and we haven't had those for a looooong time. Unfortunately it's a hard process and the franchise has consistently made it harder on itself regardless of who is leading

[B Fan in LA]

I'll bet some of those recently departed studs, like Sammy and Darby, might have let it be known that they wanted out of town.

Sort of like Kyrie Irving asking to leave Cleveland...........

 

OBD isn't going to announce publicly that they have a bunch of disgruntled players who aren't interested in another rebuild.

 

I think they're hoping to bring in guys who know what they're getting into and want the job, and gain some draft spots, too.

[JohnC]

 

 

If you can't adjust your schemes to your talent you better be a DAMN GOOD coaching staff.

 

McD might be the best HC we've had during the drought for all we know but the turnover of the roster has been extreme and in a league where the difference in roster strength from good to bad teams is not significant the Bills have taken an unnecessary step back in that regard and IMO that threatens whatever program McD is trying to establish.

You are smart enough to recognize what is going on here. This is a major rebuild that is going to take up to four years if you count this year. You are right there isn't much difference between good and bad teams. However, the Whaley built teams were never going to be really good because they were built to be marginal wild-card playoff teams. So Pegula unceremoniously jettisoned the former GM for a coaching prospect who had a plan to make this team a serious team instead of striving to be better than a fringe playoff team. As it has been noted many times here on this board Whaley had more than plenty of opportunities to draft quality franchise candidates. He demurred. That is the biggest reason for his departure. When you go up to the plate only to not swing the bat and then strike out there is no point in remaining on the job.

 

This is going to be a painful and gruesome rebuild project. It is going to be done primarily through the draft with accumulated picks. That's exactly what is happening here. Without a doubt you are going to have many opportunities to reasonably complain about particular decisions but in general what is happening here is exactly what is required to do in order to eventually contend. The organization is trying to be somewhat competitive while going through this major endeavor. So for the sake of business there is a balancing act.

 

The organization didn't have to be placed in this ridiculous situation. The absurd Rex hire set this franchise back by years. That blame belongs to the owners. That ugliness is behind us and now the cleansing and restoration are in progress. It's going to take time and patience.

[machine gun kelly]

I'm perplexed by some of these changes, but you can't blame Beane for the Hogan loss. That was stupidity by Whaley. Hogan was hurt the year before. Now Brady will get him to the Pro Bowl without Edelman and you know Gronk will get hurt at some point like years past.

 

We can only hope in December when we play them twice.

 

The defense will be in full stride by mid season and kicking butt. We just have to hope we're the #1 running team again and can improve somewhat in passing the situations.

 

I really don't want to buy into the sky is falling mentality yet. There is more than enough time in late October to start that discussion. Why just give up now?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I'm perplexed by some of these changes, but you can't blame Beane for the Hogan loss. That was stupidity by Whaley. Hogan was hurt the year before. Now Brady will get him to the Pro Bowl without Edelman and you know Gronk will get hurt at some point like years past.

 

We can only hope in December when we play them twice.

 

The defense will be in full stride by mid season and kicking butt. We just have to hope we're the #1 running team again and can improve somewhat in passing the situations.

 

I really don't want to buy into the sky is falling mentality yet. There is more than enough time in late October to start that discussion. Why just give up now?

 

....huh?....you're forgetting the extreme hatred for the Hogan kid when he was here and the good riddance crap when BB signed him....how can you finger Whaley when the TBD pundits know best??..........

[B Fan in LA]

Based on what I saw yesterday, we have a D that's not too bad, and an O that's not very good.

 

When I look at this years schedule, see 2 wins against the Jets, a win against the Chargers, and a win against the Colts.

 

After that, I'm not really sure we can beat the Dolphins more than once, or anybody else on the schedule.

 

Optimistically I'm looking at a 7-9 season, but realistically, it's looking like it might be 6-10.

 

We've got a tough year ahead of us.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Based on what I saw yesterday, we have a D that's not too bad, and an O that's not very good.

 

When I look at this years schedule, see 2 wins against the Jets, a win against the Chargers, and a win against the Colts.

 

After that, I'm not really sure we can beat the Dolphins more than once, or anybody else on the schedule.

 

Optimistically I'm looking at a 7-9 season, but realistically, it's looking like it might be 6-10.

 

We've got a tough year ahead of us.

 

..like last year?....weren't those chalked up as two EASY "W's"?.....Woody has 'em swirling in the American Standard but stranger things have happened...........

[BADOLBILZ]

You are smart enough to recognize what is going on here. This is a major rebuild that is going to take up to four years if you count this year. You are right there isn't much difference between good and bad teams. However, the Whaley built teams were never going to be really good because they were built to be marginal wild-card playoff teams. So Pegula unceremoniously jettisoned the former GM for a coaching prospect who had a plan to make this team a serious team instead of striving to be better than a fringe playoff team. As it has been noted many times here on this board Whaley had more than plenty of opportunities to draft quality franchise candidates. He demurred. That is the biggest reason for his departure. When you go up to the plate only to not swing the bat and then strike out there is no point in remaining on the job.

 

This is going to be a painful and gruesome rebuild project. It is going to be done primarily through the draft with accumulated picks. That's exactly what is happening here. Without a doubt you are going to have many opportunities to reasonably complain about particular decisions but in general what is happening here is exactly what is required to do in order to eventually contend. The organization is trying to be somewhat competitive while going through this major endeavor. So for the sake of business there is a balancing act.

 

The organization didn't have to be placed in this ridiculous situation. The absurd Rex hire set this franchise back by years. That blame belongs to the owners. That ugliness is behind us and now the cleansing and restoration are in progress. It's going to take time and patience.

 

Actually what it looks like is a half-assed job of both trying to win and trying to lose at this point..........if it weren't they wouldn't be so veteran heavy.

 

And tell me this.......WHERE has a 4 year re-build worked in the past 17 years?

 

Significantly more teams rise from mediocrity to the top of the league than from the basement.

 

The biggest fallacy in Bills-dom is that the team has been stuck in mediocrity BECAUSE of mediocrity.

 

I get that people have run out of explanations so they think tanking must be the ONLY SOLUTION....... but LOOK AT THE FACTS...........the only #1 overall pick QB's to win a SB since Elway retired are named Manning and in 3 of those 4 seasons those Mannings didn't play like 1st overall pick HOF'ers in getting their teams to those Super Bowls.

[JohnC]

 

Actually what it looks like is a half-assed job of both trying to win and trying to lose at this point..........if it weren't they wouldn't be so veteran heavy.

 

And tell me this.......WHERE has a 4 year re-build worked in the past 17 years?

 

Significantly more teams rise from mediocrity to the top of the league than from the basement.

 

The biggest fallacy in Bills-dom is that the team has been stuck in mediocrity BECAUSE of mediocrity.

 

I get that people have run out of explanations so they think tanking must be the ONLY SOLUTION....... but LOOK AT THE FACTS...........the only #1 overall pick QB's to win a SB since Elway retired are named Manning and in 3 of those 4 seasons those Mannings didn't play like 1st overall pick HOF'ers in getting their teams to those Super Bowls.

You are misreading what I stated so you can dismissively go on with your narrative. I am not arguing to tank. That's never been my position. The new regime is going through the process and to a large extent (not totally) clearing out the Whaley selections. This for the most part is going to be done through the draft. That is not a one or two year endeavor. Is it the right approach to take? Not necessarily, but it is the typical approach to take of jettisoning the in-place players for the new regime players.

 

My position has been clear for years. Until there is a franchise qb in place nothing else is matters. It isn't an earthshattering point of view, it is simply basic. A basic concept that this clueless organization seems incapable of grasping. In my view the smartest approach to jolt this franchise was to draft a qb in the last draft. Mahomes, Watson and Kizer were available and would have been credible players to work with, even if they were developmental type prospects.

 

Whether you like it or not the Bills are going to rebuild the roster mostly through the draft. Whether you like it or not it is going to take a few years or more. That's the route this new regime is taking and it is in plain sight to see.

[offyourocker]

I thought I understood that Dennison was changing our blocking scheme to a zone running scheme from a power running scheme. Maybe our o-line is not "built" for this kind of a scheme? If this is the case, and we can't run the ball effectively, then our offense is probably going to take a big step backward.

 

 

That is the interesting thing about the Bills change of coaches. We had a great run offense (best in league) but yet we can't find a way to not change that. Why??? Same exact thing as when Rex came in and changed one of the league's best D.

[K D]

When they lost the offensive staff they lost the season. They needed continuity on at least 1 side of the ball. Starting from scratch everywhere is a quick way to a losing season

[thurst44]

Based on what I saw yesterday, we have a D that's not too bad, and an O that's not very good.

 

When I look at this years schedule, see 2 wins against the Jets, a win against the Chargers, and a win against the Colts.

 

After that, I'm not really sure we can beat the Dolphins more than once, or anybody else on the schedule.

 

Optimistically I'm looking at a 7-9 season, but realistically, it's looking like it might be 6-10.

 

We've got a tough year ahead of us.

On the Dolphins, don't be fooled. As in sync as the offense seemed, it's still Cutler who has a tendency to be uneven to say the least, and the defense looked abysmal. By the third drive, the Eagles took out their first string and were still barreling over the Fins D. In any case, it's pre-season.

 

I can definitely also see 7-9 or 6-10. This team is not hopeless, nor free of flaw. As it stands now, they may have every starter playing Week One, or an untested QB and rough line. A tough year is neither out of the question, nor guaranteed. It always strikes me how certain people are about what the season will be when every year shows how unpredictable it can be (ok, the Patriots have been fairly predictable, but...).

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

 

That is the interesting thing about the Bills change of coaches. We had a great run offense (best in league) but yet we can't find a way to not change that. Why??? Same exact thing as when Rex came in and changed one of the league's best D.

 

i personally prefer zone running. Easier to set up, and the running back decides the hole.