Penalties are ridiculous and NO ONE CARES

[Big Turk]

Ravens ended up with 12 for 121 yards, more than us...I think the refs are on some BS this preseason....I'd expect it tone down a lot during the season or the NFL will have a serious problem on its hands...these games have been near unwatchable as they are due to them being punt fests by both teams.

Edited August 27, 2017 by matter2003

[VADC Bills]

First off, they didn't trade away all their talent. They traded away 2 talented players, and got at least 1 talented player back, maybe 2 (time will tell with EJ Gaines).

 

And McDermott has only been here through 3 preseason games now. The penalty problem has been ongoing for years. It's not going to change overnight. Same with the culture. It may take getting rid of more players. There's only so much any coach can do. It's why a guy like Belichick, who is a hall of fame coach and one of the best ever, gets rid of talented players if they don't fit his scheme and culture. Some players will simply never change. A coach can't force them to if they're not willing.

 

Also, There were a LOT of tricky tack BS calls by the refs this preseason. It's been happening with every team, bit just the Bills. Let's see how it is in regular season. The refs may not bad with the flags.

 

It's not,like every penalty was a guy not giving a crap either. Some were just simple mistakes. It had nothing to do with not caring IMO.

 

I am blown away by how many seem to have turned on this new regime already, without ever even giving them a real chance. Did you truly think 17 years of losing and crappy culture was going to change by preseason game 3 of an entirely new regime top to bottom? The Bills have by far the longest playoff drought not just in football, in all of sports. That kind of thing doesn't just happen, not without years of ineptitude. It's not something that someone can come in, just snap their fingers say some magic words and fix.

You guys may not like it, but it's most likely going to take years before we know. Year 3 is when I expect to really start seeing the gains.

It's probably going to take dumping more of these players, bringing in new guys (through the draft and free agency) that fit this new culture and regime better.

 

And IMO they've tried their best to put players on the field that give a crap. Look at every single guy they've brought in - Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, even the later round picks like Vallejo, Milano and Peterman, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines - all of them to a man have said how all they care about is doing what's best for the team and all of them are noted as guys who are great teammates and people who really seem to care. Read some of the stuff about Tre White and Jordan Matthews for ex. About how much their team,ages loved them and how much they were willing to do to help their teams. You can't expect them to replace the entire team in a single offseason...

Does the entire team need to be replaced? The Bills have been a middle of the pack team over the last couple years, isn't that a good starting point to build from? Why do we have to take steps back to move forward. I know it's only preseason but we are seeing the symptoms of a team with poor coaching and management that could not figure out a way to get 2 more victories from a team where Rex would give away 2 games a season due to poor coaching. Not only do the players need to get their act together but so does the coaching and management. Lets not take the time to figure it out totally at the fans expense.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The refs are always flag happy in PS.

 

Still some concern there.

[Doc]

There were a ton of penalties in the Chefs-Seahags game. It's a league-wide thing.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

A lot of the penalties are crap calls. Some are bonehead plays. Hard to get anything from preseason. That said, people do care.

[4merper4mer]

I'm sure once the regular season starts the tricky tack calls will stop. Unless you happen to be playing against the Pats.

[Real McClappy]

Somehow this is Russ Brandon;s fault.

 

Honestly though, this is like watching a Rex team all over in preseason. All my support to this McBean era was to finally see a team that is disciplined and so far I'm not seeing it. Many on here have placed way to much faith into this new FO, Pegula included. I will not buy into any of it until I see the results.

[Billsmovinup]

Somehow this is Russ Brandon;s fault.

They should hand out 20000 yellow facecloths at the home opener. Get on it Russ. Opportunity wasted!

I'm sure once the regular season starts the tricky tack calls will stop.

Like last year, right?

[Buffaloed in Pa]

The Ravens had more penalties than us. Maybe they should fire their coach also. Cluless people on here. He is working on it. Yes has been bringing in refs to practice also.

Whine whine whine.

[Mark Vader]

A lot of the penalties are crap calls. Some are bonehead plays. Hard to get anything from preseason. That said, people do care.

^^^This

 

I'm sure once the regular season starts the tricky tack calls will stop. Unless you happen to be playing against the Pats.

^^^^^And this!

[Buffaloed in Pa]

^^^This

 

^^^^^And this!

Thats right.

[dave mcbride]

It's really just the Bills and nothing to do with preseason. Going back to 2012, they've never finished better than 22nd in penalties assessed. They were dead last in 2015 too. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2017-02-06

 

Coaches can only do so much, by the way. They matter, of course, but the Bills appear to have a roster with a lot of penalty-prone players (i.e., dumb players). That shouldn't come as a shock.

Edited August 27, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

This team is rebuilding, they are stupid for not coming out and saying it at the beginning of PS. If it's been two years and they are still playing like this then blow the thing up but for now we are going to have to deal with being bad.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[QCity]

The penalties are a concern. The illegal formation flags are just sloppy and undisciplined play and shouldn't be happening.

[HumbleAndHungry]

Yea clay has dropped some easy balls in his tenure as a bill

[dezertbill]

First off, they didn't trade away all their talent. They traded away 2 talented players, and got at least 1 talented player back, maybe 2 (time will tell with EJ Gaines).

 

And McDermott has only been here through 3 preseason games now. The penalty problem has been ongoing for years. It's not going to change overnight. Same with the culture. It may take getting rid of more players. There's only so much any coach can do. It's why a guy like Belichick, who is a hall of fame coach and one of the best ever, gets rid of talented players if they don't fit his scheme and culture. Some players will simply never change. A coach can't force them to if they're not willing.

 

Also, There were a LOT of tricky tack BS calls by the refs this preseason. It's been happening with every team, bit just the Bills. Let's see how it is in regular season. The refs may not bad with the flags.

 

It's not,like every penalty was a guy not giving a crap either. Some were just simple mistakes. It had nothing to do with not caring IMO.

 

I am blown away by how many seem to have turned on this new regime already, without ever even giving them a real chance. Did you truly think 17 years of losing and crappy culture was going to change by preseason game 3 of an entirely new regime top to bottom? The Bills have by far the longest playoff drought not just in football, in all of sports. That kind of thing doesn't just happen, not without years of ineptitude. It's not something that someone can come in, just snap their fingers say some magic words and fix.

You guys may not like it, but it's most likely going to take years before we know. Year 3 is when I expect to really start seeing the gains.

It's probably going to take dumping more of these players, bringing in new guys (through the draft and free agency) that fit this new culture and regime better.

 

And IMO they've tried their best to put players on the field that give a crap. Look at every single guy they've brought in - Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, even the later round picks like Vallejo, Milano and Peterman, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines - all of them to a man have said how all they care about is doing what's best for the team and all of them are noted as guys who are great teammates and people who really seem to care. Read some of the stuff about Tre White and Jordan Matthews for ex. About how much their team,ages loved them and how much they were willing to do to help their teams. You can't expect them to replace the entire team in a single offseason...

 

First of all, when I say NO ONE CARES I'm not talking about the fans. I'm speaking about the coaches and players.

 

The Watkins and Darby trades were a Brandon Beane decision, one that I was on board with. I understand what's at stake in the 2018 draft and realize the Bills need a Jim Kelly-type QB in order to be a dominant force over an extended period of time. We haven't had that in so long it's hard to really imagine what it's like to have one. But everyone knows those trades weakened the team, not strengthen it. It also cost us Anquan Boldin. So let's call a spade a spade.

 

Believe it or not I really like McDermott. I'd take him over RR any day. But one of the main reasons why I'm a fan is his message about accountability, about changing the culture. About making the players more disciplined. Penalties were out of control with RR at the helm and it cost the Bills points and wins on many occasions.

 

Thus far this preseason the Bills offense is ranked worst in Penalty yards (301) and second-worst to the lowly Cleveland Browns in penalties (34). The offense also ranks second to last in points scored this pre-season with 35 (assuming the Vikings can score a 6 points vs. San Fran this afternoon). So when you have an offense that is struggling to score points mixed with an undisciplined offense that continues to make dumb pre-snap penalties that rob you of scoring vital points, frustration rises. It's not like penalties are keeping us from scoring 41 instead of 31.

 

This team has had some pretty drastic turnover. There are a lot of players who were not on the team last year. Players that weren't subjected to RR's lack of discipline. Yet the team still continues to make dumb mistakes. That is the frustrating part. Granted, we may not be as talented as half the league. But talent and discipline are two different things. The Jets are horrible, yet the have almost half of the offensive penalties and yards that the Bills have this pre-season.

 

That's the difference.

 

My point is when you sell a fan base on moves that weaken the team today in order for a brighter future tomorrow (which again I was on board with) then you better be able to come through on the other part of the promise, to make this team as competitive and disciplined with the amount of talent we do have.

 

There are no excuses for the penalties that cost the Bills points vs. Baltimore. This wasn't their first pre season game. We're in week three for Pete's sake. 14 days away from the start of the regular season, yet we continue to make the same boneheaded mistakes on offense that cost us drives and ultimately points.

 

This team cannot afford to lose countless opportunities to score. We just aren't built to withstand that. Otherwise you are going to see a bunch of 13-3 or 16-7 loses mount, and watching the games will be totally deflating.

 

I want to at least be entertained this year. I think our defense is going to be lights out, which will take a lot of pressure off of the offense. But were still going to need to score points, and losing them to penalties will be maddening.

Edited August 27, 2017 by dezertbill

[Augie]

First of all, when I say NO ONE CARES I'm not talking about the fans. I'm speaking about the coaches and players.

 

The Watkins and Darby trades were a Brandon Beane decision, one that I was on board with. I understand what's at stake in the 2018 draft and realize the Bills need a Jim Kelly-type QB in order to be a dominant force over an extended period of time. We haven't had that in so long it's hard to really imagine what it's like to have one. But everyone knows those trades weakened the team, not strengthen it. It also cost us Anquan Boldin. So let's call a spade a spade.

 

Believe it or not I really like McDermott. I'd take him over RR any day. But one of the main reasons why I'm a fan is his message about accountability, about changing the culture. About making the players more disciplined. Penalties were out of control with RR at the helm and it cost the Bills points and wins on many occasions.

 

Thus far this preseason the Bills offense is ranked worst in Penalty yards (301) and second-worst to the lowly Cleveland Browns in penalties (34). The offense also ranks second to last in points scored this pre-season with 35 (assuming the Vikings can score a 6 points vs. San Fran this afternoon). So when you have an offense that is struggling to score points mixed with an undisciplined offense that continues to make dumb pre-snap penalties that rob you of scoring vital points, frustration rises. It's not like penalties are keeping us from scoring 41 instead of 31.

 

This team has had some pretty drastic turnover. There are a lot of players who were not on the team last year. Players that weren't subjected to RR's lack of discipline. Yet the team still continues to make dumb mistakes. That is the frustrating part. Granted, we may not be as talented as half the league. But talent and discipline are two different things. The Jets are horrible, yet the have almost half of the offensive penalties and yards that the Bills have this pre-season.

 

That's the difference.

 

My point is when you sell a fan base on moves that weaken the team today in order for a brighter future tomorrow (which again I was on board with) then you better be able to come through on the other part of the promise, to make this team as competitive and disciplined with the amount of talent we do have.

 

There are no excuses for the penalties that cost the Bills points vs. Baltimore. This wasn't their first pre season game. We're in week three for Pete's sake. 14 days away from the start of the regular season, yet we continue to make the same boneheaded mistakes on offense that cost us drives and ultimately points.

 

This team cannot afford to lose countless opportunities to score. We just aren't built to withstand that. Otherwise you are going to see a bunch of 13-3 or 16-7 loses mount, and watching the games will be totally deflating.

 

I want to at least be entertained this year. I think our defense is going to be lights out, which will take a lot of pressure off of the offense. But were still going to need to score points, and losing them to penalties will be maddening.

 

I bet they care.

 

Has it changed yet? No, not yet. Not enough, for sure.

[Boatdrinks]

Orrrrr, the refs are utilizing the preseason to tighten players up by calling cheap penalties that won't be called in the regular season?

Pre snap penalties are not judgment calls.

It's really just the Bills and nothing to do with preseason. Going back to 2012, they've never finished better than 22nd in penalties assessed. They were dead last in 2015 too. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2017-02-06

Coaches can only do so much, by the way. They matter, of course, but the Bills appear to have a roster with a lot of penalty-prone players (i.e., dumb players). That shouldn't come as a shock.

It's also revealing a lack of talent, even more than it indicates dumb players. Guys who are out of position, getting physically beat etc will hold , make illegal blocks etc.

[oldmanfan]

To say coaches don't care about penalties is just silly.

[BillsFan4]

Edit - this was meant as a reply to dezertbill.

 

I know you were speaking about the players and coaches.

 

Like I said, I just don't think it can be solved overnight. It's a problem that's plagued the Bills for years now. It may have more to do with the type of players (and their personality/IQ) that Whaley acquired than the coaching at this point, I don't know. Or it may just be something that is going to take more than 3 preseason games to fix... (Danny Crossman may have to go, too. And I'm not real sure on Castillo at this point either). I think that's a big reason why this new regime wants to build through the draft, too. Then they can bring in their specific types of players and mould them the way they want. Sometimes veterans are just too set in their ways to change...

 

I'm not sure on this, but it also seemed to me that more of the stupid penalties were against players that have been here as opposed to players the new regime brought in (I know Dawkins had 1 illegal formation flag, but he's a rookie). I'd have to pay closer attention though, to know for sure.

 

I'm with you though. I want to see this problem fixed, and I want to see the offense playing better. I'm still holding out hope that the offense will be better in the regular season though. As others have mentioned here, it looks like they are working on specific things each game and only running a very small handful of plays. I read that they still didn't even game plan for yesterday's game. They appear to be using the preseason to work on specific plays during live game action. It's still worrying though.

 

Like many others, I'm worried that this will be one of those typical years where they're only good on 1 side of the ball. The defense is looking better and now the offense may regress... but I'm not ready to make any real judgements until I see what they look like at least 4 games into the season. By then we should have a better idea of what this team will really be like this year.

 

 

I like this new regime so far, and I am sooo sick of the constant turnover. I'm just ready to give a new GM+ coaching staff some time. I just want to see some continuity and what can be built when you're not changing visions every other year. Some seem like they've already given up on this new regime though (not you specifically) and that kind of bothers me. We haven't even seen how this new GM and scouting staff will draft. If they do well in this 2018 draft with the abundance of top 100 picks, it could really make a huge difference next year and the years after.

I also think that McDermott will get this right if he's given the time. He seems smart and willing to learn. He doesn't seem so stubbornly set in his ways like some coaches are. I just don't think it's realistic to expect it to happen overnight.

Edited August 28, 2017 by BillsFan4