BarleyNY Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Even if it was. So what. What does it prove? They haven't been .500 since 2007. How many years do you need to tank? Following the Browns model suggests it takes at least 8 years. And that is if the team is a winner this year which is certainly questionable. Could be 9 years. Can I buy a 10? Last season was a genuine tank for the Browns. Most seasons before that they were actually trying. They were a case study in how not to draft up until this most recent regime. Meddling by the team owner, unnecessarily risky high picks and going off board to take players that coaches wanted rather than following the hard work of the scouts has been the norm for them since '99. The new regime has been impressive in their patience and willingness to hold true to their scouting and analytics. They've got a long way to go (obviously), but they should give Browns fans real hope in the long term.
thurst44 Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 I'll take 10 over 17 but do you, I suppose. Actually, it's been 14...they sneaked into the playoffs last in 2002, and had one winning season since (in 2007).
GG Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 I respect your opinions but on this qb issue I strenuously disagree with you. To start let's put things in perspective: The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century. Think about that! While you talk about a hypothetical that might not come to pass I'm talking about a reality that could have happened i.e. a qb prospect in hand. KC and Houston have two HCs who are qb oriented. Each of them was willing to make a rather expensive deal to acquire a qb that this qb starved franchise was willing to pass on. Houston is in much more dire straits than Buffalo for a QB. If they had an average level QB they would have crushed NE in the playoffs. KC can also be more patient with Mahomes' development. I agree with Kirby that McD's decision to trade away the pick took into account roster building and possibly giving Tyrod one more year. They also likely thought that they won't miss out on the same talent level at QB by waiting a year.
dave mcbride Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Houston is in much more dire straits than Buffalo for a QB. If they had an average level QB they would have crushed NE in the playoffs. KC can also be more patient with Mahomes' development. I agree with Kirby that McD's decision to trade away the pick took into account roster building and possibly giving Tyrod one more year. They also likely thought that they won't miss out on the same talent level at QB by waiting a year. Yup. I don't have an issue with the Bills' approach to the QB situation. But then I'm a Taylor fan and would love to see him succeed.
PolishDave Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 All that it proves is that you need to draft well. They have drafted worse than any team in the league until recently. From 2011 - 2015 their 1st round picks were: Phil Taylor, Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden, Kiki Mingo, Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Cameron Erving and Danny Shelton. I agree on the drafting well thing. And to draft well you have to identify NFL talent better than other teams. Ultimately that will be the biggest factor in how good your team is year after year. No matter where the Bills draft in round one next year, whether it is first overall or spot 15 or whatever, it won't matter if they don't identify a guy who is going to become a top talent in the league. If they draft a QB who busts - chances are this entire staff is gone in a few years and we're stuck still trying to find a GM and scouts who can best identify NFL talent.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) I agree on the drafting well thing. And to draft well you have to identify NFL talent better than other teams. Ultimately that will be the biggest factor in how good your team is year after year. No matter where the Bills draft in round one next year, whether it is first overall or spot 15 or whatever, it won't matter if they don't identify a guy who is going to become a top talent in the league. If they draft a QB who busts - chances are this entire staff is gone in a few years and we're stuck still trying to find a GM and scouts who can best identify NFL talent. Yep, agree 100% This QB will determine their future. They have to get it right. Edited August 25, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
JohnC Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Im not even sure what your point is? When evaluating the situation you have to take into account the entire scope. If they took Mahomes (as an example) they'd have had 1 pick in 2018 as well (Sutton for this conversation). The trade has turned it into a 3 player situation. If you are to look at the move it is White, Rudolph & Sutton or Mahomes and Sutton. I'm not sure what you are strenuously disagreeing with? How do you know if the qb you want will be available? My locked in position is if you are in position to get a qb then act sooner rather than later. It's as simple as that.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 How do you know if the qb you want will be available? My locked in position is if you are in position to get a qb then act sooner rather than later. It's as simple as that. Rudolph was just an example of a guy that should be there mid 1st as of now. He's not the guy that I want necessarily. He's an example. Plug any name in there that you are comfortable with. That was never the point. The point was that the evaluation, because of the trade down, adds Tre White to the equation. Tre White, 2018 QB, 2018 1st round pick vs. 2017 QB, 2018 1st round pick. I plugged in names that were logical. Feel free to remove them but the point remains.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 27, 2017 Author Posted August 27, 2017 @MaryKayCabot Updated w/ video: Kizer wins #Browns starting QB job per source: 'He has the right feel for me,' says Hue Jackson http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/08/deshone_kizer_wins_browns_star.html
Straight Hucklebuck Posted August 27, 2017 Posted August 27, 2017 That's great. But how many are actually any good? Or did they just find their place on the depth chart due to circumstances of a bad roster to begin with. At this point we don't know the answer to that question. All we know is they have a lot of young players on the roster and that they were a really bad team last year. Where they go from here we don't know yet. The risk is falling in love with Kizer and passing on a top QB in the next draft because of that love. Then the next two seasons Kizer fizzles out. It's a lot easier for a rookie QB to look good when you chalk up the mistakes made during the season to being a rookie and projecting future improvement. If they start Oz or Kessler it's very unlikely either of those guys performs at a level high enough to keep them from drafting a QB next year. It's a great point. Totally agree. We saw that in Buffalo with EJ Manuel. Had the FO known 4 games sooner that EJ was not an NFL QB, they could have drafted Derek Carr. Instead we've been promoting and trying to develop other people's backups since (Orton, Tyrod).
BringBackOrton Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Aaand benched Well when you're taking over at QB for a 1-15 team, and you're the rawest prospect in the draft, it makes sense to get benched by Week 5 when your team is clearly a playoff contender.
YoloinOhio Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Browns name Kevin Hogan as starter. #28 since 1999. No DeShone/DeShaun Bowl on Sunday
GunnerBill Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Browns name Kevin Hogan as starter. #28 since 1999. No DeShone/DeShaun Bowl on Sunday Haha. The Kizer experiment already over?
YoloinOhio Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Haha. The Kizer experiment already over? Hue said he still feels he has potential to be QB of the future. I think Hue, at 1-21, is feeling the pressure on the job security to just win a game and Hogan has played better when he's been in there. Kizer wasn't ready to begin with, but if you decide to go with him you should just stick with him imo. 4.5 games is not long enough. I think Hue is going to get fired though and then the new coach will have to decide what to do with Kizer. Edited October 11, 2017 by YoloinOhio
Blokestradamus Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Hue said he still feels he has potential to be QB if the future. I think Hue, at 1-21, is feeling the pressure on the job security to just win a game and Hogan has played better when he's been in there. Kizer wasn't ready to begin with, but if you decide to go with him you should just stick with him imo. 4.5 games is not long enough. Hue is chucking the kid directly under the bus. I take back all nice things said about Hue. Rex was the right hire
Magox Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Hue said he still feels he has potential to be QB of the future. I think Hue, at 1-21, is feeling the pressure on the job security to just win a game and Hogan has played better when he's been in there. Kizer wasn't ready to begin with, but if you decide to go with him you should just stick with him imo. 4.5 games is not long enough. I think Hue is going to get fired though and then the new coach will have to decide what to do with Kizer. That's not going to do wonders for Kizer's confidence moving forward. Some QB's never recover.
PolishDave Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Hue said he still feels he has potential to be QB of the future. I think Hue, at 1-21, is feeling the pressure on the job security to just win a game and Hogan has played better when he's been in there. Kizer wasn't ready to begin with, but if you decide to go with him you should just stick with him imo. 4.5 games is not long enough. I think Hue is going to get fired though and then the new coach will have to decide what to do with Kizer. Yup. You can't lose that many games and not get fired. Anything short of playoffs and this coach probably gets the boot.
YoloinOhio Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Hue is chucking the kid directly under the bus. I take back all nice things said about Hue. Rex was the right hire i never liked or wanted Hue. Doesn't mean Rex was any better but Hue is awful. His press conferences are brutal too.
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