DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Fine, guys. If you don't believe specifically targeting brown people, pulling brown people over without cause, and holding them in jail until they prove their citizenship even if they have valid driver's licenses is not racist, when many of them are actual citizens, that is your right. You think he's making America white again. Seems reasonable to do that right? This is another nice one. And it's mostly Latinas filing these complaints... But Arpaio began to make other enemies, including legal ones. The jail system run by Arpaio was hit with a staggering number of lawsuits by inmates and their families. From 2004 through November 2007, Sheriff Joe and his jails were targeted by 2,150 lawsuits, some of which alleged brutality against inmates, the Phoenix New Times reported. To put this in perspective, the Phoenix New Times noted that the jail systems in New York, Houston, and Chicago combined were hit with 43 lawsuits that same period. I don't necessarily think it's racist. If you're enforcing immigration law in the southwest, no matter how you do it, you are going to predominately target Latinos. You could pin that on geography and demographics just as easily as racism. ..but I would expect to see a lot more illegal Mexicans in Arizona than I would illegal Belgians. It's analogous to arguing that law enforcement in Minnesota is racist because it predominately targets fifth-generation Scandinavians. There's a further distinction that needs to be made to jump from "demographics" to "racism." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I think the important thing about Arpaio's pardon is what it means at this moment in this country. Who is happy about it? Why did Trump go out of his way to do this at this time? It doesn't matter so much whether Arpaio is a racist (he is), but what he represents to people. This is Trump throwing a bone to a segment of his base that he will never disavow as long as there is some political advantage to be milked from it. I'll take, Because Trump is an idiot, for $200 Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I think the important thing about Arpaio's pardon is what it means at this moment in this country. Who is happy about it? Why did Trump go out of his way to do this at this time? It doesn't matter so much whether Arpaio is a racist (he is), but what he represents to people. This is Trump throwing a bone to a segment of his base that he will never disavow as long as there is some political advantage to be milked from it. No, it was Trump trying to distract from his abysmal handling of Hurricane Harvey [/MSNBC] Sarcasm aside, you're pretty much correct. Anyone remember the last time a sitting president pardoned anyone in the middle of his term? All the pardons I recall were back-loaded in to their last month in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 No, it was Trump trying to distract from his abysmal handling of Hurricane Harvey [/MSNBC] Sarcasm aside, you're pretty much correct. Anyone remember the last time a sitting president pardoned anyone in the middle of his term? All the pardons I recall were back-loaded in to their last month in office. And it's reasonable for minorities to feel pissed off about this. To a lot of people, this is another grand gesture of !@#$ off you don't matter here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 And it's reasonable for minorities to feel pissed off about this. To a lot of people, this is another grand gesture of !@#$ off you don't matter here. It is. But minorities being pissed off about it doesn't make him a racist either (except within Critical Race Theory.) If that were the case, I'd hate to think of what I am based on the people pissed off at me. "Neo-Nazi" would be one of the kinder accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm sure Bill and Hillary said and wrote some very very regrettable things and terms about the upstart Obama as he took away her nomination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm sure Bill and Hillary said and wrote some very very regrettable things and terms about the upstart Obama as he took away her nomination... http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I don't necessarily think it's racist. If you're enforcing immigration law in the southwest, no matter how you do it, you are going to predominately target Latinos. You could pin that on geography and demographics just as easily as racism. ..but I would expect to see a lot more illegal Mexicans in Arizona than I would illegal Belgians. It's analogous to arguing that law enforcement in Minnesota is racist because it predominately targets fifth-generation Scandinavians. There's a further distinction that needs to be made to jump from "demographics" to "racism." Is marching and parading ONLY immigrants in a chain gang and not whites to a specific part of Tent City that has an electric fence racist or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Is marching and parading ONLY immigrants in a chain gang and not whites to a specific part of Tent City that has an electric fence racist or no. If the purpose is the segregation of a specific type of criminal, then no. Again, if you're talking about immigration enforcement in the Southwest of the United States, you aren't going to be dealing with many white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Is marching and parading ONLY immigrants in a chain gang and not whites to a specific part of Tent City that has an electric fence racist or no. Probably. I don't know. Context? Was that the only group paraded, or the only group REPORTED to be paraded, for example? One of the issues you and I are always going to have between us is that I simply don't believe stories at face value. I may know what the story is, but I don't know if it's accurate...and I've seen far, far too many stories that were half-truths at best to take anything story at face value. Everyone's got an axe to grind, and I'm cognizant enough of my own ignorance to not be manipulated by them. And I'll remind you, I give Arpaio's stories the same skepticism...if not more, since he is indisputably a shitburger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 It is. But minorities being pissed off about it doesn't make him a racist either (except within Critical Race Theory.) True. It doesn't make Arpaio anything. I don't actually care what happens to Arpaio. He's an old man. His life's work of being a dick to people is done. It doesn't make Trump a racist either. But it does make him a **** leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Probably. I don't know. Context? Was that the only group paraded, or the only group REPORTED to be paraded, for example? One of the issues you and I are always going to have between us is that I simply don't believe stories at face value. I may know what the story is, but I don't know if it's accurate...and I've seen far, far too many stories that were half-truths at best to take anything story at face value. Everyone's got an axe to grind, and I'm cognizant enough of my own ignorance to not be manipulated by them. And I'll remind you, I give Arpaio's stories the same skepticism...if not more, since he is indisputably a shitburger. The (illegal) immigrants were walked from a local county lock up to Tent City, specifically a portion of Tent City with electrified fence, as was the policy of Maricopa County to house individuals there for immigration crimes. The transfer was done in such a way as to be extremely visible. Outside of this, the prisoners were treated no differently than anyone else incarcerated in Tent City. It wasn't based on race. It was based on the type of crime. Edited August 30, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Probably. I don't know. Context? Was that the only group paraded, or the only group REPORTED to be paraded, for example? One of the issues you and I are always going to have between us is that I simply don't believe stories at face value. I may know what the story is, but I don't know if it's accurate...and I've seen far, far too many stories that were half-truths at best to take anything story at face value. Everyone's got an axe to grind, and I'm cognizant enough of my own ignorance to not be manipulated by them. And I'll remind you, I give Arpaio's stories the same skepticism...if not more, since he is indisputably a shitburger. That is fair. And you're one of if not the most informed and well read people I ever conversed with. So I always take what you say seriously. But there are certain facts and court decisions in the assassination plot. There is known fact of 3.75m settlement case arresting newspaper owners who disagreed with him. The fact of 2,170 lawsuits against his jails in a three year period of time compared to a COMBINED total of 43 in three crime ridden larger cities of NYC, Houston and Chicago in that same time period is not a slanted story. Those are real numbers. They are not to be believed, not not to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Fine, guys. If you don't believe specifically targeting brown people, pulling brown people over without cause, and holding them in jail until they prove their citizenship even if they have valid driver's licenses is not racist, when many of them are actual citizens, that is your right. You think he's making America white again. Seems reasonable to do that right? This is another nice one. And it's mostly Latinas filing these complaints... But Arpaio began to make other enemies, including legal ones. The jail system run by Arpaio was hit with a staggering number of lawsuits by inmates and their families. From 2004 through November 2007, Sheriff Joe and his jails were targeted by 2,150 lawsuits, some of which alleged brutality against inmates, the Phoenix New Times reported. To put this in perspective, the Phoenix New Times noted that the jail systems in New York, Houston, and Chicago combined were hit with 43 lawsuits that same period. Are you kidding me? That is about as ignorant as it gets. Many states issue licenses to anyone and liberals endorse that practice. Now you want to use those licenses as proof of citizenship? So far, you are in 1st place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 That is fair. And you're one of if not the most informed and well read people I ever conversed with. So I always take what you say seriously. But there are certain facts and court decisions in the assassination plot. There is known fact of 3.75m settlement case arresting newspaper owners who disagreed with him. The fact of 2,170 lawsuits against his jails in a three year period of time compared to a COMBINED total of 43 in three crime ridden larger cities of NYC, Houston and Chicago in that same time period is not a slanted story. Those are real numbers. They are not to be believed, not not to be believed. Oh, I do pretty much believe those, given they're based on verifiable court records (the assassination plot is !@#$ing ridiculous. He should have gone to jail for that bit of fraud, IMO.) But again...proves he's an !@#$, but not necessarily a racist !@#$. Are you kidding me? That is about as ignorant as it gets. Many states issue licenses to anyone and liberals endorse that practice. Now you want to use those licenses as proof of citizenship? So far, you are in 1st place. Your point, and KTD's, provided a decent illustration of how thoroughly !@#$ed up immigration law is in this country. ICE can "deputize" local law enforcement to enforce immigration law, who's can't enforce the law otherwise, who may be at odds with state authorities who issue documentation of proof of residency that commonly substitutes as proof of citizenship, none of which makes any goddamn sense whatsoever. This country's debates about illegal immigration are virtually meaningless, since they take place in a legal context that has been !@#$ed sideways six ways to Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Are you kidding me? That is about as ignorant as it gets. Many states issue licenses to anyone and liberals endorse that practice. Now you want to use those licenses as proof of citizenship? So far, you are in 1st place.No. You misinterpreted or I wasn't clear. Latinos were pulled over in their cars for looking like Latinos. They didn't do anything wrong or it was for broken taillight kind of stuff. They would show legal drivers licenses for whatever they were pulled over for, even if it were nothing, but if they ALSO couldn't show their papers proving citizenship they were arrested and jailed even though many were indeed legal citizens. That's what a lot of the lawsuits lately were about. Wasn't AT ALL saying a license proves citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 No, it was Trump trying to distract from his abysmal handling of Hurricane Harvey [/MSNBC] Sarcasm aside, you're pretty much correct. Anyone remember the last time a sitting president pardoned anyone in the middle of his term? All the pardons I recall were back-loaded in to their last month in office. Was Joe even convicted ? or was it just his contempt charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Wasn't AT ALL saying a license proves citizenship Lots would, though...seems to be the presumption in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 No. You misinterpreted or I wasn't clear. Latinos were pulled over in their cars for looking like Latinos. They didn't do anything wrong or it was for broken taillight kind of stuff. They would show legal drivers licenses for whatever they were pulled over for, even if it were nothing, but if they ALSO couldn't show their papers proving citizenship they were arrested and jailed even though many were indeed legal citizens. That's what a lot of the lawsuits lately were about. Wasn't AT ALL saying a license proves citizenship I think you may have misinterpreted grinreaper's post. He was not really arguing the issue--he was merely taking the opportunity to attack you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Is marching and parading ONLY immigrants Latino's in a chain gang and not whites to a specific part of Tent City that has an electric fence racist or no. fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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