Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 This roster is looking at 5 to 6 wins as is now. And if we got rid of McCoy, think that'd get us to 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Fair enough, but my point still stands. This team is NOT close and by the time it is, Shady will be past his prime. I'm only suggesting trading McCoy, not Dareus and Hughes like others have proposed and yes, I understand that he's a top 5 back. Shady is the best player on the team and makes the Bills somewhat watchable this year but that's it. It's unfortunate, but LeSean is not going to be a Bill by the time they get their **** together. I feel really bad for Kyle. He came back for nothing. Fair enough on McCoy, and my rant had more to do with the general comments in this thread that included trading Hughes, McCoy, Dareus, etc. My favorite part of the "trade away everybody" crowd for draft picks that are 2nd to 4th round picks at best...is that they are the same people mostly who want to cut our 2nd round pick BEFORE he's ever played a single down of NFL football in Ragland. Yet they act like 2nd round draft picks are somehow going to easily and magically replace all the other young talent they moved like Hughes or Dareus to get them. Heck, many of them want to trade Shaq too because another guy who's yet to play a single down of real NFL football in Yarborough has had good practice sessions. This board thinks draft picks are life blood and worth more than gold...then as soon as we draft someone, they instantly hate them and want them gone. People here hold on to the draft an utterly stupid and absurd amount of time. People couldn't accept Sammy over how he was drafted and hated on him for it...same for guys like Gilmore, McKelvin, CJ, Whitner, Shaq, Ragland, and so on and so on. Some turned out to be pretty good to very good, and it didn't matter. Some havent really gotten a chance to show what they can really do on the field yet...doesnt matter. A couple had some success even if it wasn't what many expected or hoped for. NO MATTER who we pick next year with all these picks, they are more likely to be hated than loved by this fan base because we either traded too much to get them, wasn't the one the arm chair GMs wanted, or some other stupid reason. Then within a year or two, there will be a dozen threads on how we should trade them for more draft picks because we are going to win that year, or we never should have drafted them, or we will never pay them what they are worth so better get something before losing them, or some other stupid reason. You don't just strip away talent for picks when you are trying to build, especially younger talent. If someone wants to make a case of McCoy since RB's shelf lives are shorter, then so be it. Anyone OTHER talented player other than McCoy on this team should never be brought up again. Edited August 21, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Perhaps, but my worst case scenario is a 6 win season. Fighting for anything other than 2 wins or 10 wins is failure. Honest opinion: do you see this roster winning 10 games and making the playoffs? __________________________ Is it improbable? Yes. Is it impossible? No. We won't know the full possibility of this team until around Week 4. We should start 1-0 against the Jets, then Carolina, Denver, and Atlanta are next. Finish that run 2-2 or better and we have a shot. I will say, lose to the Jets in Week 1? Fire frickin' everybody and tank baby tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I think that there are several factors though that must be considered... Watkins case was unique because you had a player that has had multiple injuries during the short period of time that he has been on the team and was up for a rather sizeable increase in pay. (15mill/season or more) Where Shady is concerned, he may be questioning "I didn't sign on here to do a rebuild." Do the Bills want a potentially hostile player situation on their hands when they could get something useful (maybe a 2nd rd pick) in return for him now? I have no idea how he actually feels but that is a consideration in any decision they make. Kyle Williams will most likely retire after this season. Allegedly McD had to talk him into returning for this season. McD and Beane could well decide that by trading TT now they would at least get something back in return that they would not have if they go 6-10 and end up cutting him after the season anyway. These are all different situations that are arising and will play into any decision to tank or not. If they end up drafting a QB next year the Beane and McD will almost certainly get to year 4 before Pegula would consider ditching them. After not making the playoffs all these years, I'd rather go all in and do whatever it takes to get the best young QB that they can get. Edited August 21, 2017 by DefenseWins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Perhaps, but my worst case scenario is a 6 win season. Fighting for anything other than 2 wins or 10 wins is failure. Honest opinion: do you see this roster winning 10 games and making the playoffs? __________________________ Is it improbable? Yes. Is it impossible? No. We won't know the full possibility of this team until around Week 4. We should start 1-0 against the Jets, then Carolina, Denver, and Atlanta are next. Finish that run 2-2 or better and we have a shot. I will say, lose to the Jets in Week 1? Fire frickin' everybody and tank baby tank! Wish I had that outlook. But fighting for .500 is THE reason we've been out of playoff contention for 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just ask Redskins fans. They kinda knew Desean Jackson would not resign, and were bummed they didn't trade him and get some value, instead he just leaves. Watkins would have left. He didn't like Buffalo that much and also... the team was betting he's always one tweak away from missing half the season. Not a fair comparison because the SKins had to use the tag on the QB. The Bills do not have a QB to tag next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 or they figured he was going to walk at the end of the year and got what they could from him. That's an excuse and there is zero to back it up. Sammy said his job was to stay in Buffalo his whole career. Do you remember that? He seemed shocked by the trade. It was a poor management decision compounded by another one. Does every player about to get a market rate contract or play on a 5th year option get traded in the NFL? Do they all hit FA ? Of course not, the team has tools available such as the option and FA tag to help retain players and bridge time to work out cap friendly deals. Let me guess, this talent starved team somehow can't afford it? That's bunk. The standard should be retaining your best young talent, building through the draft, and filling gaps with judicious FA signings. Demand a bit more from your team's' front office than assuming all talented players will leave for greener pastures before they will sign a second contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Wish I had that outlook. But fighting for .500 is THE reason we've been out of playoff contention for 17 years. _____________________________________________ Man that's bull ****. We never fight for .500, we fight to win every game. And don't forget, as much as it pains me to say, a big reason we have been out of playoff contention for 17 years is because we play in the same division as Tom Brady and the Patriots. Thanks for making me puke in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I look at it as realizing where the team is and having a strategy of where they need to be. I think Beane and McDermott have been given 3-5 years to show what they can do. I want to see a team fighting and improving week to week. Having said that IF you can get value for some Vets who want a chance to compete now because their window is closing then i am for trading them. I think Beane will listen to trade talks about every single player on the roster right now. I think Beane would do whats best for the organization first, then the team, and then the player. Whaley knew the Bills were just mediocre and it is so hard to build when a team is mediocre. Suck up a down year for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 So strip the team of ALL talent and then got out and spend all those draft picks on one player so that one player is on a crap team? #Brilliant *sarcasm* I will assume you think Andrew Luck is a good QB. I will assume you think Drew Brees is a good QB. Ask them how having a talentless roster around them does for their playoff hopes. I mean DREW FREAKING BREES hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 6 straight years. Or how about Philip Rivers...when was the last time he was in the playoffs? Seriously, thank god the FO isn't as dumb as all these get rid of everyone threads who are too short sighted to understand anything past the current season or how to actually build a football team. You won't have to use all the draft picks on one player if you pick high enough. Winning 6 or 7 games and picking 10th overall is where you run the risk of having to use all that ammo to trade up. There are valid points to both sides. I'm sure Sabres fans hated losing but couldn't be happier now that we have a franchise changing player. Tanking for the top pick isn't a guarantee but it gives you better odds at that franchise changing guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Wish I had that outlook. But fighting for .500 is THE reason we've been out of playoff contention for 17 years. _____________________________________________ Man that's bull ****. We never fight for .500, we fight to win every game. And don't forget, as much as it pains me to say, a big reason we have been out of playoff contention for 17 years is because we play in the same division as Tom Brady and the Patriots. Thanks for making me puke in my mouth. Ha! Ok, so, let's concede 2 games to the Paytoilets. That means you have to go 10-4 in the other 14. Is it happening this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I am fully prepared to embrace 2-14 by trading away the veteran talent on this team. I will have to shield my son for what hopefully will only be one unwatchable year (even more so than most). Then how many years are you prepared for the team to be bad while rebuilding? Two, three, or four years to bring the drought up to a possible 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Like many others have said...The Colts tanked for Luck...that has not worked out well for them...No guarantees getting a QB makes you a great team How does this keep getting repeated? Of course Luck has worked out well for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Ha! Ok, so, let's concede 2 games to the Paytoilets. That means you have to go 10-4 in the other 14. Is it happening this year? +++++ I concede nothing! Father Time will catch that bastard eventually. I'm hopeful it starts this season. Honestly, the AFC is starting to look weird to me this year. 9-7 or even 8-8 could make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 As a fan, I'd prefer a 3 or 4 win season to the 6-8 product we normally see. Either put a competitive team on the field (one with a playoff chance), or commit to the rebuild. No "middling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 So strip the team of ALL talent and then got out and spend all those draft picks on one player so that one player is on a crap team? #Brilliant *sarcasm* I will assume you think Andrew Luck is a good QB. I will assume you think Drew Brees is a good QB. Ask them how having a talentless roster around them does for their playoff hopes. I mean DREW FREAKING BREES hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 6 straight years. Or how about Philip Rivers...when was the last time he was in the playoffs? Seriously, thank god the FO isn't as dumb as all these get rid of everyone threads who are too short sighted to understand anything past the current season or how to actually build a football team. I've heard this argument a couple of times now. The problem I have with this logic is that finding a QB is WAY harder than finding ANY other position on the team. You can cover up most mediocre players with schemes, but you cannot cover up the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I would actually be shocked if you could get anything more than 2 mid-round picks for Shady. What team is going to empty out a 2nd round pick for a 29-year-old running back with a lot of years in the league? On top of that Shady is highly paid esp for his position. Shady has at best 2 elite years in the league left. I doubt any team is going to trade a 2nd round pick for at best 2 years of elite production. No team is an elite RB away from being in contention. So if the choice is to keep McCoy or get a 2018 4th and a 2019 5th, I would just rather hold onto him and have some hope of being competitive this season and then try to get one more really good year out of him. If hypothetically you could get a 2nd round pick for Shady, I think you have to consider it. But there just isn't that trade out there. Edited August 21, 2017 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) You won't have to use all the draft picks on one player if you pick high enough. Winning 6 or 7 games and picking 10th overall is where you run the risk of having to use all that ammo to trade up. There are valid points to both sides. I'm sure Sabres fans hated losing but couldn't be happier now that we have a franchise changing player. Tanking for the top pick isn't a guarantee but it gives you better odds at that franchise changing guy. Thats actually just not true unfortunately...thats a refusal to look at the context of whats really more likely to play out. Its going to be VERY hard to end the season with a worse record than either the Jets or 49ers. Did you see the bounty the Bears had to give up to move up from 3 to 2 in this last draft to get a QB the 49ers were not going to draft anyway? All just to keep another team from making the trade. This team is too talented to likely finish worse than either of those teams. If we tanked so hard we got the 3rd pick...its no different than picking 10th. First, 2 desperately needy teams in Jets and 49ers likely do NOT trade out of those spots unless there is another QB prospect they feel they can still get that they love. And if that does happen, literally no chance they trade down without us sending them a bounty, even to move 1 spot from 3rd to 2nd in the draft. So there is almost no scenario where we can take hard enough to be bad enough to get ahead of those 2 teams. They are bad enough that going winless is actually on the table for both of them. The Bills roster is substantially in better shape than either of those teams. This is why trying to tank more isn't going to improve how much we give up by much, if at all, to move high enough to take one of the top 2 QB prospects in the draft. And this is why jettisoning all of our talent to TRY and do that is a colossal mistake as we likely wont succeed and then we are drafting a young QB to a substantially worse roster rather than drafting a young QB to a team with good pieces on it that could allow us to compete fast. Look at Seattle...that was a 7-9 team 2 years in a row before Wilson and they made a massive leap first year because the team was talented everywhere but the QB. We could easily have a similar path if our D keeps improving the way it seems, and we go out and use these assets to get a QB rather than make 5 more holes we desperately need to fill and don't have any draft picks to do so because we still traded most of them to get a QB. Edited August 21, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 many here wanted to draft Mahomes and Watson and think they can be franchise QBs....they were picked 10th and 12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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