DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 The criticism earlier is that you don't go get a receiver if you don't have a QB. They thought that they had their QB. People criticized the trade but no one was criticizing Watkins the player coming out. That's my issue with the entire scenaro though. How does the team go from having their guy at QB to deciding that he isn't the guy, only four games into the 2014 season? That jumps out at me as a confused organization who wasn't on the same page.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I don't disagree that the EJ pick was a Nix decision. But that doesn't change the fact that Whaley expended valuable resources for a top shelf receiver when he didn't have the caliber of qb in place to utilize the receiver's talents. Even after the selection it should have been a priority to address the most important priority, the qb position. That failure was the biggest reason why he wasn't as successful as he should have been, and why he lost his job. I have never been a big basher of Whaley. However, he didn't do what he needed to do to upgrade that position in order to have a reasonable chance to seriously compete. The stark ugly truth for this middling franchise is that it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter of a century, since the retirement of Kelly. That is a disgrace and an embarrassment! Can't argue with your over all POV. It's long overdue for it to be addressed in a serious manner to finally resolve the issue. Hope they choose the right guy in '18.
Scott7975 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 That's my issue with the entire scenaro though. How does the team go from having their guy at QB to deciding that he isn't the guy, only four games into the 2014 season? That jumps out at me as a confused organization who wasn't on the same page. This is why Marrone left IMO. I know most people hate Marrone and think he was a terrible coach, but even still... I believe he left because he and Whaley didn't see eye to eye on the roster or draft moves.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Can't argue with your over all POV. It's long overdue for it to be addressed in a serious manner to finally resolve the issue. Hope they choose the right guy in '18. ...EXTREMELY reticent about OBD FINALLY getting the QB spot right......an abysmal failure since the Kelly era......a patchwork job of NOTHINGS....TE spot ranks a close 2nd....how two critical components of an offense have been this neglected for so long is inexplicable and indefensible......I'll put my confidence in the new regime to get it right, FINALLY....for now.........
Agent 91 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 So we are blaming Whaley for taking arguably the safest prospect in the draft? A can't miss player with limited questions? I really, really hate when people use hindsight to act like they would have done differently. If you want to gripe about trading the extra first, fine but to act like Watkins was anything but a can't miss is just not true. This board would have shut down when Beane came in and traded Mack for a second and EJ Gaines. So we are blaming Whaley for taking arguably the safest prospect in the draft? A can't miss player with limited questions? I really, really hate when people use hindsight to act like they would have done differently. If you want to gripe about trading the extra first, fine but to act like Watkins was anything but a can't miss is just not true. This board would have shut down when Beane came in and traded Mack for a second and EJ Gaines.
BobbyC81 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I wish as a fan base we knew more about college football. I've said it before but we probably watch and follow college football less than any other fan base in the league. In part because we don't have a team and a lot of people weren't raised on it. In turn, we know less about prospects and players coming in than pretty much any other NFL fan base. Our knowledge is so weak that we just don't know why certain guys are looked at as "can't miss." We don't remember what Watkins did to OSU in the Orange Bowl or what Dareus did to Texas in the National Championship. We don't realize that Zay Jones has caught A LOT more balls than anyone ever. We just don't know enough about the players to understand the strengths and weaknesses. The University of Buffalo football team has been competitive in the MAC, albeit a mid-Major conference. They have also been playing top teams in their non-conference schedule. People need to get out and support them and watch their games on TV. I'm a UB grad on the West Coast and I watch every game I can. I even attended their game at Nevada, Reno a few years ago. Their QB Tyree Jackson has a chance to be a good one.
Wayne Arnold Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I wish as a fan base we knew more about college football. I've said it before but we probably watch and follow college football less than any other fan base in the league. In part because we don't have a team and a lot of people weren't raised on it. In turn, we know less about prospects and players coming in than pretty much any other NFL fan base. Our knowledge is so weak that we just don't know why certain guys are looked at as "can't miss." We don't remember what Watkins did to OSU in the Orange Bowl or what Dareus did to Texas in the National Championship. We don't realize that Zay Jones has caught A LOT more balls than anyone ever. We just don't know enough about the players to understand the strengths and weaknesses. This is a weird post.
BillsWest Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 The other thing to point out is that EJ had another terrible game. The announcers were saying that he may have just sunk to third string.
Bill_with_it Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 This board would have shut down when Beane came in and traded Mack for a second and EJ Gaines. This board would have shut down when Beane came in and traded Mack for a second and EJ Gaines. And rightfully so because Mack isnt chasing potential. He was the inly player selected as an all pro in two positions for the same year. You dont get that based of potential.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 This is a weird post. I guess, but a part of the reason that we over or under value certain guys it's because we don't know enough about them. We read a bunch of draft prep and think that we know more than we do. That's why the contributions of the Bandit's, Gunner's, Blokes', Yolo's are valuable. They know the players. Part of the reason that the our knowledge as fanbase has declined is because we haven't kept up with college and the rest of the NFL for that matter. A lot of that has to do with the Bills being down for 17 years. We don't watch as much football as other fanbases. We live in our bubble. It's caused our assements of a lot of players to be off base. We lack the frame of reference that fans in Louisiana have. They watch 3-4 college games a week and a few more in the NFL. They read and discuss multiple teams. They just know players more than we do. I've lived in both places and see it.
Steptide Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 After this Watkins trade, it made picking him in 14 a total absolute waste. Overall the bills got very little production out of him for what they paid/gave up. It's part of the reason I hate the trade to begin with. If he had a great year with the bills this year, then you offer him a fair deal. If he doesn't take it, then oh well. But trading him Imo was just dumb.
NoSaint Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Where would we be without hindsight? I'm fine with people criticizing the trade. A lot of people questioned it (and a lot of people loved it). To try to act like the player wasn't an elite prospect is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't always work out but the odds of Sammy being a star were better than any player in that draft. Clowney's motor was questioned, Mack's competition was questioned, Robinson didn't have production, Mathews lacked athleticism and there were questions with Evans hands and if he made Johnny or visa versa. Going into the 2014 draft that was the landscape. I wish as a fan base we knew more about college football. I've said it before but we probably watch and follow college football less than any other fan base in the league. In part because we don't have a team and a lot of people weren't raised on it. In turn, we know less about prospects and players coming in than pretty much any other NFL fan base. Our knowledge is so weak that we just don't know why certain guys are looked at as "can't miss." We don't remember what Watkins did to OSU in the Orange Bowl or what Dareus did to Texas in the National Championship. We don't realize that Zay Jones has caught A LOT more balls than anyone ever. We just don't know enough about the players to understand the strengths and weaknesses. I think a fair assessment-- college football just isn't the secondary interest for most bills fans, while in some cities it might get more attention than the pro team Not meant to be an insult, just kind of a blind spot here that makes it tough to discuss career trajectories for some of the young guys
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) I guess, but a part of the reason that we over or under value certain guys it's because we don't know enough about them. We read a bunch of draft prep and think that we know more than we do. That's why the contributions of the Bandit's, Gunner's, Blokes', Yolo's are valuable. They know the players. Part of the reason that the our knowledge as fanbase has declined is because we haven't kept up with college and the rest of the NFL for that matter. A lot of that has to do with the Bills being down for 17 years. We don't watch as much football as other fanbases. We live in our bubble. It's caused our assements of a lot of players to be off base. We lack the frame of reference that fans in Louisiana have. They watch 3-4 college games a week and a few more in the NFL. They read and discuss multiple teams. They just know players more than we do. I've lived in both places and see it. I grew up with college football. While I agree that Western NY'ers are probably less knowledgeable about college than many other NFL cities. I don't think it matters all that much. You still have to separate what guys do in college from the pros. Many of the best pros had somewhat pedestrian college careers and vice versa. The NFL draft would be a perfect infallible science if that wasn't the case. I'm sure many of those college fans in Louisiana thought that Eddie Lacy and AJ McCarron were going to be great pros. I don't think that fans from college football regions are more knowledgeable regarding pro prospects. It's too much of a crapshoot. Edited August 20, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5
JohnC Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I guess, but a part of the reason that we over or under value certain guys it's because we don't know enough about them. We read a bunch of draft prep and think that we know more than we do. That's why the contributions of the Bandit's, Gunner's, Blokes', Yolo's are valuable. They know the players. Part of the reason that the our knowledge as fanbase has declined is because we haven't kept up with college and the rest of the NFL for that matter. A lot of that has to do with the Bills being down for 17 years. We don't watch as much football as other fanbases. We live in our bubble. It's caused our assements of a lot of players to be off base. We lack the frame of reference that fans in Louisiana have. They watch 3-4 college games a week and a few more in the NFL. They read and discuss multiple teams. They just know players more than we do. I've lived in both places and see it. I don't understand your reasoning and your take on the drafting of players. What difference does it make how shallow the knowledge of the fans are of college prospects and pro players. It is outright irrelevant. Do you want to know what is relevant? The competency of the organization that one cheers for. How is this bedraggled franchise doing? It hasn't been in the playoffs for more than a generation. On top of that pathetic record it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. With only superficial knowledge on players and prospects one can still make a fair judgment that this lame organization for much of its history has been inept. If you want to disagree with this obvious point then I will politely point out not only its mediocre record but its consistly unentertaining level of play. You don't have to be a football guru to recognize mediocrity. Just trust your eyes and examine the record. It's not like being a top chef who is judging a cooking contest or an ice skating competition where subjectivity is an inherent and unavoidable aspect to the evaluation. There is a simplicity when judging a pro football team: What's the record? Even for dullards like me I can know the difference between wretched mediocrity and excellence. It's really not too difficult to do.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 Just to see what Sammy and Robert are doing. Also, the Rams played here for 20 years and although I hate the owner, I sort of like the team. Sammy was not really noticeable. I watched him run a few routes. Caught 2 for 8 yards. Woods made a catch early. I didn't watch the second. However, the clear star of this receiving corps was Cooper Kupp from Eastern Washington. Kid was open and catching everything for the first half. Made the QB Jared Goff look really good. I think Goff was 16-20. I know it's preseason, but last year Goff couldn't hit 16 of 20 in practice with no defense on the field. Oh, and that kid from UB is still a stud. How did we miss on that one? I've said it many times, especially in the Shoutbox that Cooper Kupp is going to be a star.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 @AroundTheNFL What we learned from Saturday's preseason games: @ConorOrr, @MarcSesslerNFL, @JABergman break down each matchup http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000831830/article/what-we-learned-from-saturdays-preseason-games Rams 24, Raiders 21 1. Sammy Watkins' impact on the Los Angeles Rams' offense was apparent on the first drive of the game. The former Bills wide receiver, who was acquired in a trade prior to L.A.'s preseason opener, didn't see a target on the Rams' opening drive in Oakland, but his presence opened up opportunities for Robert Woods at the sticks and then Todd Gurley behind the line. For the first time in what feels like forever, Jared Goff successfully set up the run with Gurley, and then executed a gut-punch play-action touchdown pass to a wide-open Cooper Kupp -- who, after his six-catch, 70-yard outing -- is without a doubt Goff's preferred receiver. Maybe we're lending too much credit to Watkins and his two catches for eight yards; many variables, including the strength of the suspect Raiders secondary, factored into the Rams' strong start. Regardless, there's reason for optimism in Rams Land. With Watkins in the lineup, their offense looks and moves like a professional operation -- finally. Uh oh... Sammy back into "decoy mode"... expect a call from his agent
NoSaint Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 I don't understand your reasoning and your take on the drafting of players. What difference does it make how shallow the knowledge of the fans are of college prospects and pro players. It is outright irrelevant. Do you want to know what is relevant? The competency of the organization that one cheers for. How is this bedraggled franchise doing? It hasn't been in the playoffs for more than a generation. On top of that pathetic record it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. With only superficial knowledge on players and prospects one can still make a fair judgment that this lame organization for much of its history has been inept. If you want to disagree with this obvious point then I will politely point out not only its mediocre record but its consistly unentertaining level of play. You don't have to be a football guru to recognize mediocrity. Just trust your eyes and examine the record. It's not like being a top chef who is judging a cooking contest or an ice skating competition where subjectivity is an inherent and unavoidable aspect to the evaluation. There is a simplicity when judging a pro football team: What's the record? Even for dullards like me I can know the difference between wretched mediocrity and excellence. It's really not too difficult to do. Right but when discussing if a guy was a reasonable pick it helps to understand his expected role, value, and likewise that of the people selected around him. We can all say the food has been mediocre but if we don't understand the ingredients it's not much fun to talk to each other in the kitchen, right?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 Just to see what Sammy and Robert are doing. Also, the Rams played here for 20 years and although I hate the owner, I sort of like the team. Sammy was not really noticeable. I watched him run a few routes. Caught 2 for 8 yards. Woods made a catch early. I didn't watch the second. However, the clear star of this receiving corps was Cooper Kupp from Eastern Washington. Kid was open and catching everything for the first half. Made the QB Jared Goff look really good. I think Goff was 16-20. I know it's preseason, but last year Goff couldn't hit 16 of 20 in practice with no defense on the field. Oh, and that kid from UB is still a stud. How did we miss on that one? What kid from UB? Really wanted kupp on this team, could have had him instead of Dawkins.
T master Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 EJ Manuel was a first round QB entering year 2. They went and got him a stud receiver to hopefully develop with him. Just like the Rams just did.... The only problem with that was that the kid that went to Carolina had played with EJ at FSU so wouldn't you think that instead of reaching for Sammy they would have grabbed some one like Kevin Benjamin that EJ had familiarity with ?? I thought that would be the common sense thing to do if you want him to excel !!
Mat68 Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 Yes, yes we are. "Can't miss players" don't exist. We traded too much to take Sammy, and for what? Where did it get us? Yes, I blame Whaley for that. And that trade is a huge stain on Whaley's already mediocre resume. If Ej was a franchise QB it would have bern the right move. Whaley tried to get over the hump. Best shot was with Marrone than he over played his hand and lost.
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