DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 EJ Manuel was a first round QB entering year 2. They went and got him a stud receiver to hopefully develop with him. Just like the Rams just did.... That's where the dysfunction in this organization shows. Hearing the phrase "develop with him" made me think of how they benched Manuel four games into Watkins rookie season. So much for developing Watkins with Manuel at that point. I was never sold on Manuel since the day we drafted him. I was very unimpressed with him at FSU. Benching Manuel didn't bother me as I was already convinced that he wasn't a NFL caliber starter. However, if the franchise thought they had their QB before drafting Watkins, how did they determine he's not the guy four games into the season? Personally I already believed that we didn't have a QB going into the 2014 draft.
boyst Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 So we are blaming Whaley for taking arguably the safest prospect in the draft? A can't miss player with limited questions? I really, really hate when people use hindsight to act like they would have done differently. If you want to gripe about trading the extra first, fine but to act like Watkins was anything but a can't miss is just not true.the thing is I never would have drafted up for him at that time. If anyone was going to be drafted it was Mack. Otherwise I'd have looked to traceback. We didn't need a QB
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 That's where the dysfunction in this organization shows. Hearing the phrase "develop with him" made me think of how they benched Manuel four games into Watkins rookie season. So much for developing Watkins with Manuel at that point. I was never sold on Manuel since the day we drafted him. I was very unimpressed with him at FSU. Benching Manuel didn't bother me as I was already convinced that he wasn't a NFL caliber starter. However, if the franchise thought they had their QB before drafting Watkins, how did they determine he's not the guy four games into the season? Personally I already believed that we didn't have a QB going into the 2014 draft.I was never a Manuel guy either. That was just the wrong year to try to get a QB. Their plan to put a top target with their young QB was not unlike what every other team does. The problem was that their young QB was no good.
Bangarang Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 EJ Manuel was a first round QB entering year 2. They went and got him a stud receiver to hopefully develop with him. Just like the Rams just did.... I'm aware of what happened. It doesn't change the validity behind the criticisms of the pick.
White Linen Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Some had Watkins at 1. Others had Evans. Still missing the point. EJ Manuel was our QB.EJ...Manuel. So don't waste picks and FA money on offensive weapons until you have a great QB? Now that's funny, really funny.
purple haze Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 That's a ridiculous assessment of the game. They had Sammy in single coverage, and he wasn't open. Goff had to go to secondary and tertiary targets. Giving Watkins credit for the success of Goff and Kupp is unfair to both those guys. Yes, Sammy is a superior athlete, but he isn't the reason those guys looked good. They beat Dallas last week, so they are coming along. I watched the game as well, and agree, it's a ridiculous assessment. I disagree that Sammy wasn't open. He was open enough to get the ball many times. But he's new. And Kupp is Goff's security blanket (Kupp is very good BTW). I think as we get into the season and Goff and Watkins have time to develop a rapport Sammy will get his share of catches. What I wonder, though, is what happens to Woods. They're paying him a good chunk of money, but Kupp seems like he will be integral going forward, and if they wind up paying Sammy something has to give on the roster because the Rams still need to pay Donald; maybe Trumaine Johnson too.
bigK14094 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 EVERYONE had Watkins as the top receiver in the class. The Bills drafted a 1st round QB and then got him his #1 receiver. That's what teams do!! Questioning Watkins talent entering the draft is not helping your case that Whaley did a bad job. It's looking like an agenda. The Bills have had plenty of talent the last few years and have cleaned up on under-valued FAs. That was their strength. They would have been a playoff team with anyone but Rex. Whaley had his flaws for sure but he's nowhere near as bad as many are making him out to be. That team, especially in 2015, had a lot of talent. I'd bet my life that over 80% (minimum) favored Watkins. You can ask any of the other draft nerds on this board if you don't want to believe me. There were 4 players at the top of that draft Robinson, Clowney, Mack and Watkins. That was tier 1. Mathews and Evans were in the next tier. I was hoping they took Beckham from LSU....Giants did and that worked out for them.....bills could have had him with their #8 pcik.....that was Whaley.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I'm aware of what happened. It doesn't change the validity behind the criticisms of the pick.The criticism earlier is that you don't go get a receiver if you don't have a QB. They thought that they had their QB. People criticized the trade but no one was criticizing Watkins the player coming out.
bigK14094 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 That's where the dysfunction in this organization shows. Hearing the phrase "develop with him" made me think of how they benched Manuel four games into Watkins rookie season. So much for developing Watkins with Manuel at that point. I was never sold on Manuel since the day we drafted him. I was very unimpressed with him at FSU. Benching Manuel didn't bother me as I was already convinced that he wasn't a NFL caliber starter. However, if the franchise thought they had their QB before drafting Watkins, how did they determine he's not the guy four games into the season? Personally I already believed that we didn't have a QB going into t Manuel never had it....strong INACCURATE arm....I saw that in person. Lots of intangibles, but they don't win football games.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) I was hoping they took Beckham from LSU....Giants did and that worked out for them.....bills could have had him with their #8 pcik.....that was Whaley.Everyone's hoping that now. I don't remember too many people before the draft saying that. In fact, I was one of the only people on here that was even okay with Beckham going into the draft. There wasn't a person anywhere that had Beckham ahead of Watkins. We are really good at looking back at how things happened and then saying we would have done it differently. Edited August 20, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Wayne Arnold Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 So we are blaming Whaley for taking arguably the safest prospect in the draft? A can't miss player with limited questions? I really, really hate when people use hindsight to act like they would have done differently. If you want to gripe about trading the extra first, fine but to act like Watkins was anything but a can't miss is just not true. Yes, yes we are. "Can't miss players" don't exist. We traded too much to take Sammy, and for what? Where did it get us? Yes, I blame Whaley for that. And that trade is a huge stain on Whaley's already mediocre resume.
Elite Poster Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 One poster on TSW actually posted that Sammy was a reach. Total BS. This is the dumbest rationalization. Several posters here wanted Jeff Tuel starting. Every damn asinine take on football will be made on a forum, what does prove in the end.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 .....interesting......the duo resurfaces to make plays in tandem............... Alden Gonzalez-ESPN Staff Writer Jared Goff was calm and precise, Todd Gurley ran with patience and ferocity, and a collection of receivers -- rookies like Cooper Kupp and Gerald Everett, veterans like Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins -- made plays all over the field. It was only a preseason game, not even an entire half of NFL football, but the way the starters navigated an eventual 24-21 win on Saturday night allowed one to believe, for the first time in a long time, that the Los Angeles Rams may actually have a functional offense.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Yes, yes we are. "Can't miss players" don't exist. We traded too much to take Sammy, and for what? Where did it get us? Yes, I blame Whaley for that. And that trade is a huge stain on Whaley's already mediocre resume. Where would we be without hindsight? I'm fine with people criticizing the trade. A lot of people questioned it (and a lot of people loved it). To try to act like the player wasn't an elite prospect is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't always work out but the odds of Sammy being a star were better than any player in that draft. Clowney's motor was questioned, Mack's competition was questioned, Robinson didn't have production, Mathews lacked athleticism and there were questions with Evans hands and if he made Johnny or visa versa. Going into the 2014 draft that was the landscape. I wish as a fan base we knew more about college football. I've said it before but we probably watch and follow college football less than any other fan base in the league. In part because we don't have a team and a lot of people weren't raised on it. In turn, we know less about prospects and players coming in than pretty much any other NFL fan base. Our knowledge is so weak that we just don't know why certain guys are looked at as "can't miss." We don't remember what Watkins did to OSU in the Orange Bowl or what Dareus did to Texas in the National Championship. We don't realize that Zay Jones has caught A LOT more balls than anyone ever. We just don't know enough about the players to understand the strengths and weaknesses.
par73 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I saw the Rams first two preseason games, and have been impressed with Goff and his new weapons on offense. It is obviously very early, and we shall see if this extends into the regular season. Thing is, I had written Goff off as a bust based on last year, but that may have been a premature assessment.
JohnC Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 EJ Manuel was a first round QB entering year 2. They went and got him a stud receiver to hopefully develop with him. Just like the Rams just did.... EJ Manuel was a fourth round talent drafted in the first round by an inept organization. I have always acknowledged Watkins exceptional talents. But the strategy Whaley used when giving up so much to select such a talented receiver was half-arsed backwards. Atlanta gave up a lot to move up to select Julio Jones because they had a qb who was capable of maximizing his talents. The smarter approach for Whaley to have taken in a draft class rich with receivers was to have in place a qb who was capable of exploiting the talents of a receiver before expending valuable future resources to get that player. As it stands Watkins copious talents were squandered in Buffalo. In an interview shortly after he was fired he was asked what he would do differently if he could do it all over again. He said that he would have been more aggressive in finding a qb. Give me a freaking break! Forrest Gump could have figured that out.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 EJ Manuel was a fourth round talent drafted in the first round by an inept organization. I have always acknowledged Watkins exceptional talents. But the strategy Whaley used when giving up so much to select such a talented receiver was half-arsed backwards. Atlanta gave up a lot to move up to select Julio Jones because they had a qb who was capable of maximizing his talents. The smarter approach for Whaley to have taken in a draft class rich with receivers was to have in place a qb who was capable of exploiting the talents of a receiver before expending valuable future resources to get that player. As it stands Watkins copious talents were squandered in Buffalo. In an interview shortly after he was fired he was asked what he would do differently if he could do it all over again. He said that he would have been more aggressive in finding a qb. Give me a freaking break! Forrest Gump could have figured that out. Thanks Buddy Nix.
Bangarang Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 People criticized the trade but no one was criticizing Watkins the player coming out. Isn't that what I said?
Scott7975 Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) EVERYONE had Watkins as the top receiver in the class. The Bills drafted a 1st round QB and then got him his #1 receiver. That's what teams do!! Questioning Watkins talent entering the draft is not helping your case that Whaley did a bad job. It's looking like an agenda. The Bills have had plenty of talent the last few years and have cleaned up on under-valued FAs. That was their strength. They would have been a playoff team with anyone but Rex. Whaley had his flaws for sure but he's nowhere near as bad as many are making him out to be. That team, especially in 2015, had a lot of talent. I'd bet my life that over 80% (minimum) favored Watkins. You can ask any of the other draft nerds on this board if you don't want to believe me. There were 4 players at the top of that draft Robinson, Clowney, Mack and Watkins. That was tier 1. Mathews and Evans were in the next tier. Yes, I am sure most people favored Watkins. I just remember hearing arguments being made both ways on who would be the better receiver around draft time. In any case it was real close and each receiver was liked for different reasons. I wasn't trying to argue what you said but more support what you said. However I will disagree that Evans was in a different tier. There was lots of talk about which receiver was better. Edited August 20, 2017 by Scott7975
JohnC Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Thanks Buddy Nix. I don't disagree that the EJ pick was a Nix decision. But that doesn't change the fact that Whaley expended valuable resources for a top shelf receiver when he didn't have the caliber of qb in place to utilize the receiver's talents. Even after the selection it should have been a priority to address the most important priority, the qb position. That failure was the biggest reason why he wasn't as successful as he should have been, and why he lost his job. I have never been a big basher of Whaley. However, he didn't do what he needed to do to upgrade that position in order to have a reasonable chance to seriously compete. The stark ugly truth for this middling franchise is that it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter of a century, since the retirement of Kelly. That is a disgrace and an embarrassment!
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