Is McDermott/Bean just Jauron/Levy II?

[SoTier]

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

 

^^^

 

Same. Don't see explosive play makers in the passing game.

 

I think this is what raises the specter of Jauron/Levy in skeptics' minds more than anything else. Jauron's offense was excruciating to watch in its boring predictability, and McDermott seems to want the same run-run-short check down pass on third down-punt style that Jauron favored.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's amazing how many of the people bashing you haven't bothered to engage with the well-informed substance of your post. You might be wrong, but the parallel you're drawing is thoughtful and worth considering. The cutting away of veteran, somewhat prickly talent does seem familiar - didn't like it then, and I don't now.

 

It is early days and hopefully it won't turn into a pattern with these guys. I'm not super impressed, but I am trying keep an open mind and remain hopeful.

 

Your post, though, does make me a bit nervous.

 

 

Exactly.......this post is food for thought.

 

But the hate spew was inevitable because people just don't want to think about a return to those days.......but the parallels are undeniable, unfortunately.

 

That 4 year run was probably the low point of the Bills franchise.......it's where they gradually, painfully, BORINGLY bottomed out talent-wise and became an uncompetitive roster with a culture of losing.

 

I think McD is in a little better situation........but what he and Beane do with it is important because Jauron didn't exactly inherit nothing either.......there was talent there and they whittled it away in the name of a strategic gameplan they weren't nearly good enough to execute.

[BillsVet]

Good points. In McD's first draft, he squandered draft capital and plugged holes. It's concerning.

 

And, they've already used their first draft to replace departed UFA's. Gilmore replaced by Tre White. Woods ostensibly replaced by Zay Jones. Perhaps those two from the previous regime weren't their guys or deemed too expensive. BADOL's made the point for years that using the draft to replace departed veterans just makes everything worse in the long term. Yet, it's what the Bills continue to do across multiple front office groups.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

It's not even close...however it's interesting that you bring up Pettine and Alonso, because I think there's a possibility that either Vallejo or Milano could fill in as a subpackage LB to play the same coverage role that Alonso played in Pettine's D.

 

Those guys don't have the same instincts as Kiko, nor do they appear to be (based on college video) anywhere near as effective against runs/screens as Kiko.

 

 

Something tells me the one year Thomas Davis extension by the Panthers yesterday was met with a groan from Beandermott.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Something tells me the one year Thomas Davis extension by the Panthers yesterday was met with a groan from Beandermott.

 

Probably...that would've been an easy lay-up for them.

 

That said, with 6 picks in the top 90 they should be able to grab an Azeem Victor-type that can play that role.

[xsoldier54]

Feels like it. 7-9 looks like what the record will be.

Tell me oh prognosticator. What are the numbers for the powerball lottery?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

And, they've already used their first draft to replace departed UFA's. Gilmore replaced by Tre White. Woods ostensibly replaced by Zay Jones. Perhaps those two from the previous regime weren't their guys or deemed too expensive. BADOL's made the point for years that using the draft to replace departed veterans just makes everything worse in the long term. Yet, it's what the Bills continue to do across multiple front office groups.

 

Yeah and one of the classic fails from Jauron/Marv was Marv literally announcing that they were going to draft for need.

 

Call it honesty I guess but it's rightfully regarded as the cardinal sin of the process of team building.

 

It would be nice to hire a coach/GM that was willing to work with the talent on hand...........but that would require an owner like the Rooney's or Mara's who don't fall for "plans" in the interview process.

 

No question this was a drafferneed kinda' draft.

Tell me oh prognosticator. What are the numbers for the powerball lottery?

 

 

They've finished with between 6 and 8 wins 12 times during the drought..........you equate projecting "7" to the odds of guessing correctly on the lottery.

 

Just sayin'.......math.......you.......nope.

[The Crowing Rooster]

Comparing Beane to Levy as GMs is beyond simple foolishness. It is exponentially absurd. Levy as a GM was so out of touch that he not only didn't even know the players on the roster but also was a non-participant in the drafting. He didn't even want the job. He only did it as a favor for the aged owner. Beane is a young and energetic GM who is fully engaged with his manifold duties. When Levy was asked what his role was he said that he was a "facilitator". Comparing Levy to Beane makes no sense.

 

It stunning how most of the participants here don't know and understand what is going on. This new regime is very transparent and clear with their strategy that they are for the most part going to rework the roster through the draft. Why do you think they are accumulating picks with their deals?

 

There is no quick fix to turning around this middling franchise. Anyone expecting an immediate leap into contention is unaware where this franchise is currently at. I for one am not blindly loyal to this new staff. But what I do understand is what they are now doing and how they are going about doing it. It's not difficult to see if you have your eyes open and are being open-minded.

 

Badol, sometimes you post insightful gems and sometimes you get ridiculous. In this case you are far out in space.

Well said. I could not agree more with what you wrote here.

[GG]

 

Was Tom Modrak chopped liver compared to Brandon Beane?

 

He was the actual personnel man providing the players for Jauron/Levy's plan to copy the Patriots seemingly socialist-utopia approach to team building.

 

Who is Brandon Beane by comparison to Tom Modrak? NOBODY is the correct answer.

 

Modrak actually helped build the Bill Cowher Steelers teams and Reid Eagles teams that went to about 10 conference championships combined.

 

Brandon Beane got Panthers GM's a lot of coffee for a lotta' years.

 

He was Carolina's Russ Brandon. Both were tutored in scouting.......not people with personnel backgrounds.

 

I get the "he's new so he doesn't have losses to his name yet".........but show a little respect for people like Modrak and Donahoe who actually achieved something before coming to the poorly owned Bills franchise.

 

Ownership weakness/confusion is and remains a problem for this franchise.

 

Tom Modrak's resume may have been more impressive than Beane's, but that's where his advantage ends. Modrak got a nice gig in Buffalo to not do any work from Jacksonville and still collect the paycheck. It's ludicrous to compare that dark history with what's happening now. Again, the current regime seems to be much more aligned with Donahoe's entry than with the byzantine mess that followed his exit. Levy & Jauron didn't revamp the scouting department. Levy was clueless about scouting and personnel. Modrak was the absentee head of scouting. Half the scouting department had loyalties to the deposed Donahoe and half were still holdovers from Dwight Adams (who hated getting fired for Modrak).

 

So yeah, I can see how you can confuse a rudderless organization operating under a cash to cap mandate, where Melvin Fowler is your star free agent acquisition, with what's happening now.

 

And why do you continue to make things up to support your point? Here are Beane's qualifications, taken from Panthers' release. How in the world is it like Russ Brandon? Despite his age, he was the most qualified for the job than anyone else who's been hired by the franchise, other than Polian & Donahoe.

 

Beane, 38, has spent the past seven seasons as the Panthers' director of football operations, a role in which he assisted Gettleman in the evaluation of players at the professional and collegiate levels while holding administrative and scouting responsibilities in both areas. He has worked closely with the football operations staff on the negotiation of player contracts, developing budgets and CBA compliance.

 

Beane has also been responsible for directing portions of the NFL Draft, including executing trades that netted cornerback Bene Benwikere, wide receiver Devin Funchess and offensive tackle Daryl Williams in the past two years. Beane has played a role in putting together the team's draft board over the past four seasons and participated in the evaluation of collegiate prospects in preparation for the draft.

 

In 2012, Beane served as the Panthers' interim general manager during the final 10 games of the season, helping Carolina finish with a 6-4 record over that span.

 

 

 

[harmonkillebrew]

I think Brandon Beane gave us a little clarification today regarding why they made these controversial trades.

 

Those who are excited because they are now expecting 2-4 wins this season and a high first round pick this year..........mmmmmperhaps not.

 

It's NOT a tank:

 

"If this was baseball, we’d probably have kept Sammy, because we wouldn’t have had the cap to worry about," Beane told King. "But every decision you make in football, with the cap, is a calculated risk. We had four inquiries for Sammy, and three offers, and got to a point where the Rams were willing to give a high pick, and we thought it was the best thing for us."

Beane points out that trades like the Bills made Friday are rare – King references just three similar trades over the last six years.

With six picks in the first three rounds, Beane told King he knows the pressure will fall directly on him.

 

"The onus is on me and my staff," the Bills' GM said. "We have to draft well. We’ve taken the first step – accumulating high picks."

 

 

They are trying to win using the simplify and synergize approach........the same basic building technique used by Jauron/Levy.

 

For those that have forgotten.....the Ivy League duo took over the franchise and tried to build a team around veteran role players.

 

Their rationale was based greatly on a misunderstanding about how the Patriots had become successful.........neglectful of the fact that Belichick was a brilliant game planner and gameday coach........and that he was aided significantly by cheating.

 

So basically two guys whose education suggested they deserve a ton of trust........then spent the first couple years turning over the talented personalities on the roster that either wanted to get paid......or were likely to question their stewardship......specifically Lawyer Milloy, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Willis McGahee and Takeo Spikes..........and then essentially using all of their draft capital for the next few seasons on their replacements.

 

On the field.........they played vanilla defense and offense........protected the ball.........ran it, ran it, passed it and punted it........and won 7 games for 3 straight years as the roster became weaker and weaker........until the team finally quit on him.

 

Is this what we are facing with McDermott/Bean?

 

I don't know.........but McDermott doesn't strike me as a strategic genius.......he was a Jauron-y kinda' DC in Carolina.

 

But if anyone thinks this is a refreshing "disruption" or anything remotely new to this franchise.......nope.

 

 

Interesting comparison. I think McD is more on the discipline side than Jauron, but yeah, the reliance on role players and character over talent feels eerily similar. Couldn't quite place it.

 

I had been excited for McD to apply a little more Coughlin-style discipline to our talent base and see what could be salvaged from the Whaley/Rex mess, but instead we've jettisoned serious talent - mostly the speedy type- and brought in steady, unexciting vets. The speed on our D has decreased significantly. Our WR corps as well.

This feels like a bend but don't break type of D and an O focused on ball possession. Predict lots of 13-10 squeakers, with a few blowouts when facing a solid O, while we limp home to a 6-10 record.

[hondo in seattle]

I think Brandon Beane gave us a little clarification today regarding why they made these controversial trades.

 

Those who are excited because they are now expecting 2-4 wins this season and a high first round pick this year..........mmmmmperhaps not.

 

It's NOT a tank:

 

"If this was baseball, we’d probably have kept Sammy, because we wouldn’t have had the cap to worry about," Beane told King. "But every decision you make in football, with the cap, is a calculated risk. We had four inquiries for Sammy, and three offers, and got to a point where the Rams were willing to give a high pick, and we thought it was the best thing for us."

Beane points out that trades like the Bills made Friday are rare – King references just three similar trades over the last six years.

With six picks in the first three rounds, Beane told King he knows the pressure will fall directly on him.

 

"The onus is on me and my staff," the Bills' GM said. "We have to draft well. We’ve taken the first step – accumulating high picks."

 

 

They are trying to win using the simplify and synergize approach........the same basic building technique used by Jauron/Levy.

 

For those that have forgotten.....the Ivy League duo took over the franchise and tried to build a team around veteran role players.

 

Their rationale was based greatly on a misunderstanding about how the Patriots had become successful.........neglectful of the fact that Belichick was a brilliant game planner and gameday coach........and that he was aided significantly by cheating.

 

So basically two guys whose education suggested they deserve a ton of trust........then spent the first couple years turning over the talented personalities on the roster that either wanted to get paid......or were likely to question their stewardship......specifically Lawyer Milloy, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Willis McGahee and Takeo Spikes..........and then essentially using all of their draft capital for the next few seasons on their replacements.

 

On the field.........they played vanilla defense and offense........protected the ball.........ran it, ran it, passed it and punted it........and won 7 games for 3 straight years as the roster became weaker and weaker........until the team finally quit on him.

 

Is this what we are facing with McDermott/Bean?

 

I don't know.........but McDermott doesn't strike me as a strategic genius.......he was a Jauron-y kinda' DC in Carolina.

 

But if anyone thinks this is a refreshing "disruption" or anything remotely new to this franchise.......nope.

 

 

 

#BADOL, I enjoy you because you are a thoughtful, intelligent poster.

 

But there are some unsupported assumptions in here that I can't go along with. For example, I see no evidence Levy was trying to emulate the Pats nor evidence that he misunderstood their success.

 

I think Levy believed that the collaborative approach he used in the 90s were work again. The problem was that the people he was collaborating with when he was a GM were not as good as the folks he collaborated with when he was a HC. Polian and Butler were gone and DJ was no Marv Levy. Levy's approach as GM might have worked if he was surrounded by talented people. He wasn't.

 

Beane doesn't remind me of Levy-as-GM nor does McD remind me of DJ in any way. And I have no real idea if Beane/McD will be a winning duo. There's just not enough data yet to decide. So I'll watch and hope.

Edited August 16, 2017 by hondo in seattle

[4_kidd_4]

What you said;

 

eh...!@#$ it. i'm just going to enjoy watching some football and see what unfolds. why bother to be so dramatic about it? some people truly aren't happy unless they're complaining. it's a game. have fun with it.

What I heard;

 

Cakewalk.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Tom Modrak's resume may have been more impressive than Beane's, but that's where his advantage ends. Modrak got a nice gig in Buffalo to not do any work from Jacksonville and still collect the paycheck. It's ludicrous to compare that dark history with what's happening now. Again, the current regime seems to be much more aligned with Donahoe's entry than with the byzantine mess that followed his exit. Levy & Jauron didn't revamp the scouting department. Levy was clueless about scouting and personnel. Modrak was the absentee head of scouting. Half the scouting department had loyalties to the deposed Donahoe and half were still holdovers from Dwight Adams (who hated getting fired for Modrak).

 

So yeah, I can see how you can confuse a rudderless organization operating under a cash to cap mandate, where Melvin Fowler is your star free agent acquisition, with what's happening now.

 

And why do you continue to make things up to support your point? Here are Beane's qualifications, taken from Panthers' release. How in the world is it like Russ Brandon? Despite his age, he was the most qualified for the job than anyone else who's been hired by the franchise, other than Polian & Donahoe.

 

 

 

Assisting a strong willed scout/GM like Gettleman is like being the OC for Chan Gailey..........Beane was DG's Modkins......like I said "tutored" in scouting.

 

I'm not crediting Modrak for work done here.........but a lotta' previously VERY GOOD.....ACCOMPLISHED professionals have come to this organization and failed.

 

The common thread is ownership.

 

As I've said many times.........when Bill Cowher left the Steelers could've gone in an entirely different direction..........they weren't duped into a re-build.

 

The Bills owners post Wade have always got duped into re-builds and huge philosophical changes.......it's what they do.

[BillsVet]

So yeah, I can see how you can confuse a rudderless organization operating under a cash to cap mandate, where Melvin Fowler is your star free agent acquisition, with what's happening now.

 

And why do you continue to make things up to support your point? Here are Beane's qualifications, taken from Panthers' release. How in the world is it like Russ Brandon? Despite his age, he was the most qualified for the job than anyone else who's been hired by the franchise, other than Polian & Donahoe.

 

 

If the plan rebuilding plan is flawed, scouting does not make up for that shortcoming.

 

I have no doubt the front office is better now than the DJ/Levy/Smithers years. I have no doubt ownership will spend more than the owner back then. Still, the league itself has changed and what might get you to 7-9 in 2006-07 won't work now. In one off-season they've let go of Watkins, Gilmore, Darby, Woods, and Gillislee.

 

Tearing it down too far is something DJ/Levy/Smithers didn't manage well. They wanted their guys and that looks like it's happening again. If the goal is to get good fast, replacing both CB's, both starting WR's, and your primary backup QB while implementing a new defensive scheme is approaching too far back.

 

At least Beane understands the onus is on him to find players in 2018 with those picks they've acquired. Whether his and McD's plan is sound for this era is another matter.

[GG]

 

 

Assisting a strong willed scout/GM like Gettleman is like being the OC for Chan Gailey..........Beane was DG's Modkins......like I said "tutored" in scouting.

 

I'm not crediting Modrak for work done here.........but a lotta' previously VERY GOOD.....ACCOMPLISHED professionals have come to this organization and failed.

 

The common thread is ownership.

 

As I've said many times.........when Bill Cowher left the Steelers could've gone in an entirely different direction..........they weren't duped into a re-build.

 

The Bills owners post Wade have always got duped into re-builds and huge philosophical changes.......it's what they do.

 

Then why did you bring up Modrak as an example?

 

Beane preceded Gettleman and WAS the GM for nearly a year. That's not a Modkins or a Dennis Thurman. He's experienced in scouting, personnel & contracts.

 

Again, there's a valid comparison between this turn and Donahoe's entry, and how they took to reshaping the roster - which was far more extreme. But there's almost no comparison between that & the Levy/Jauron years.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

#BADOL, I enjoy you because you are a thoughtful, intelligent poster.

 

But there are some unsupported assumptions in here that I can't go along with. For example, I see no evidence Levy was trying to emulate the Pats nor evidence that he misunderstood their success.

 

I think Levy believed that the collaborative approach he used in the 90s were work again. The problem was that the people he was collaborating with when he was a GM were not as good as the folks he collaborated with when he was a HC. Polian and Butler were gone and DJ was no Marv Levy. Levy's approach as GM might have worked if he was surrounded by talented people. He wasn't.

 

Beane doesn't remind me of Levy-as-GM nor does McD remind me of DJ in any way. And I have no real idea if Beane/McD will be a winning duo. There's just not enough data yet to decide. So I'll watch and hope.

 

No he actually spoke quite openly about trying to emulate their success by using their dumpster diving methods in FA.

 

One thing about Marv.......he was pretty forthright.

 

And it made more sense then because......at the time.......we didn't know they were cheating or that Tom Brady would go from being a game manager to a historically prolific passer that could carry a team.

 

But what should have been VERY clear was that Dick Jauron was NOT the man for the job.......he was fired in Chicago for a reason......he played not to lose and therefore could not win.

 

McDermott has a clean slate by comparison.......but a lesser resume, undeniably.

 

I hope for the best with McDermott and Beane.......but they get no free pass from me.......they've made some bold decisions and they are going to have to live with them.

 

And they'd be wise to know that Terry Pegula isn't co-owning their decisions.......he's just letting them prove themselves with his current support........which will fade quickly without results.

[GG]

 

If the plan rebuilding plan is flawed, scouting does not make up for that shortcoming.

 

I have no doubt the front office is better now than the DJ/Levy/Smithers years. I have no doubt ownership will spend more than the owner back then. Still, the league itself has changed and what might get you to 7-9 in 2006-07 won't work now. In one off-season they've let go of Watkins, Gilmore, Darby, Woods, and Gillislee.

 

Tearing it down too far is something DJ/Levy/Smithers didn't manage well. They wanted their guys and that looks like it's happening again. If the goal is to get good fast, replacing both CB's, both starting WR's, and your primary backup QB while implementing a new defensive scheme is approaching too far back.

 

At least Beane understands the onus is on him to find players in 2018 with those picks they've acquired. Whether his and McD's plan is sound for this era is another matter.

 

This is also a big reason why Whaley got fired. You shouldn't be assembling your roster where you're facing a wholesale exit of young guys as UFAs. Good organizations are far more proactive in keeping the talent they need, while letting a few FAs walk.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Then why did you bring up Modrak as an example?

 

Beane preceded Gettleman and WAS the GM for nearly a year. That's not a Modkins or a Dennis Thurman. He's experienced in scouting, personnel & contracts.

 

Again, there's a valid comparison between this turn and Donahoe's entry, and how they took to reshaping the roster - which was far more extreme. But there's almost no comparison between that & the Levy/Jauron years.

 

I'm comparing apples to apples........Beane is new here.......how does he compare to incoming personnel leaders like Donahoe or Modrak?

 

Not too impressively.

 

They were obviously more accomplished.

 

What does that mean? Not much........it's just pointing out that IT'S WHAT YOU DO IN BUFFALO THAT DEFINES YOUR LEGACY IN BUFFALO.......Gerry.

 

Stop telling me about all he's done.......it's jacksh*t by comparison to others.......and doesn't justify bold moves that significantly weaken the roster.......dilluting young talent to boot.

 

And again........you are dead wrong if you see almost no comparison.

[BobChalmers]

Levy was a brutal GM - who had no experience in a front office at all, so not really a surprise.

 

Beane's been in an NFL front office his entire career, so sorry - the comparison is just weird.

[GG]

 

I'm comparing apples to apples........Beane is new here.......how does he compare to incoming personnel leaders like Donahoe or Modrak?

 

Not too impressively.

 

They were obviously more accomplished.

 

What does that mean? Not much........it's just pointing out that IT'S WHAT YOU DO IN BUFFALO THAT DEFINES YOUR LEGACY IN BUFFALO.......Gerry.

 

Stop telling me about all he's done.......it's jacksh*t by comparison to others.......and doesn't justify bold moves that significantly weaken the roster.......dilluting young talent to boot.

 

And again........you are dead wrong if you see almost no comparison.

 

I see almost zero comparison to Levy/Jauron. Again, if you want to compare the situation to the Donahoe years where a team one year removed from a SB contender was gutted, the whole scheme replaced and an authoritarian coach brought in, I'm all ears.

 

I also don't understand how Beane & McD will shape the roster in their vision if they're NOT given the freedom to do so. That would be more like Levy/Jauron who executed a strategy with one hand tied behind their back. They had no choice but to build through the draft and street FAs.