Is McDermott/Bean just Jauron/Levy II?

[Fan in Chicago]

I think Brandon Beane gave us a little clarification today regarding why they made these controversial trades.

 

 

Is this what we are facing with McDermott/Bean?

 

I don't know.........but McDermott doesn't strike me as a strategic genius.......he was a Jauron-y kinda' DC in Carolina.

 

But if anyone thinks this is a refreshing "disruption" or anything remotely new to this franchise.......nope.

 

 

 

It is too early to make a firm proclamation but the early actions of McD make me suspect he is a control freak like Greggo than a passive personality like Jauron,

 

Beane saying that he is 'annoyed' by the tank suggestion is NOT a good start for him. If this is getting him upset, he has a lot more coming and he better learn to control it and manage his communications. This too is not too alike Levy. I do agree that not valuing the super-skilled players seems to be similar in concept to Jauron/Levy. I am firmly of the opinion that you do need playmakers & leaders on both sides of the ball and the team rounded out by above average players who fit the scheme.

[GG]

Again though, isn't the fact that Pegula has invested in an actual front office a key difference this time around? I know Modrak had a decent enough reputation (although I recall it being discussed that he over-relied on BLESTO reports) but the group they brought in this year - paying big money to steal them away from the Chiefs, Texans, etc. - seems far more qualified than anything we've seen around here in a couple of decades.

 

I'm hoping so, at least... and I echo Bandit's point about hoping for an analytical approach to the draft, instead of a hole-plugging strategy...

 

There is zero evidence to suggest that this is redux of Levy/Jauron, which was hoisted by an irate Wilson who felt duped by Donahoe.

 

If anything, this situation is a lot closer to Donahoe/Williams, but why bring that up when you can build a strawman?

[GunnerBill]

 

 

No, I never said that in season regarding Schwartz/Rex.......like I said you just made that up.

 

I gave Schwartz tons of props for his work and wasn't looking for his replacement in season........ferchrissake.

 

I did not just make it up I clearly remember you saying it. Even remember where I was when I read the post so vehemently did I disagree. It might have been before the season rather than in season and if I misremembered that I apologise for doing so, but you definitely said it and a lot of the same criticisms you made when Schwartz arrived you have made of McDermott.

 

Look you are right a lot BADOL. You need to own the few occasions when you are wrong too.

Edited August 16, 2017 by GunnerBill

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I did not just make it up I clearly remember you saying it. Even remember where I was when I read the post so vehemently did I disagree. It might have been before the season rather than in season and if I misremembered that I apologise for doing so, but you definitely said it and a lot of the same criticisms you made when Schwartz arrived you have made of McDermott.

 

You misremembered alright.

 

I said I preferred Pettine's D be kept intact when he departed. For obvious reasons. It had been successful and we had just switched schemes TWICE in the previous 2 seasons. Being cheaper to maintain was a positive I mentioned THEN. That was not incorrect......production in Schwartz D caused salaries to skyrocket because 4-3 pass rushers fit almost everywhere and are always in high demand in a passing league.

 

But in season? Are you crazy? I loved the work Schwartz was doing.

 

I was indifferent about the Rex hire as HC UNTIL he chose not to keep Schwartz. Never was I clamoring for Rex as the Bills were pounding his team twice during the season. Nonsense. False narrative.

 

You were probably just one of those people who hated Pettine's D because it was susceptible to the run...........but so was Schwartz D. Pettine operated an effective, entertaining defense for a whole season with nothing but a rookie Kiko Alonso inside.......and the Bills D was playoff worthy that year.

 

Rex was an idiot and refused to adapt/conform his defense the way Pettine had. Pettine proved there was flexibility within the system if you wanted to make it a pass defense-first philosophy. I was also the first one here to note....thru quotes from Dareus that people here poo-poo'd...... in the following preseason that the Bills coaches were trying to get Dareus to become a two-gapping NT and that he was literally refusing to follow orders and that problems loomed because Rex wasn't willing to adapt to the talent.

[Mat68]

Buffalo hasnt had any leaders on the feild. The leaders they had never won nothing so their words would ring hollow on the younger players. I dont believe you can win in the NFL favoring character over talent 100% of the time. As a team Buffalo has some talent that is free spirited. Mccoy, and Darues both fit that decription. For a team trying to climb out of a 17 year hole i understand all the FA signings. Unharolded coming with alot to prove. Or vets with 1 or 2 years left who can lead their positional groups. In Mcdermotts first draft it makes sense that he drafted 3 years starts with leadership qualities because imo leadership is lacking and they would be the most likely to buy into what they are trying to accomplish.

[BringBackOrton]

 

You misremembered alright.

 

I said I preferred Pettine's D be kept intact when he departed. For obvious reasons. It had been successful and we had just switched schemes TWICE in the previous 2 seasons. Being cheaper to maintain was a positive I mentioned THEN. That was not incorrect......production in Schwartz D caused salaries to skyrocket because 4-3 pass rushers fit almost everywhere and are always in high demand in a passing league.

 

But in season? Are you crazy? I loved the work Schwartz was doing.

 

I was indifferent about the Rex hire as HC UNTIL he chose not to keep Schwartz. Never was I clamoring for Rex as the Bills were pounding his team twice during the season. Nonsense. False narrative.

 

You were probably just one of those people who hated Pettine's D because it was susceptible to the run...........but so was Schwartz D. Pettine operated an effective, entertaining defense for a whole season with nothing but a rookie Kiko Alonso inside.......and the Bills D was playoff worthy that year.

 

Rex was an idiot and refused to adapt/conform his defense the way Pettine had. Pettine proved there was flexibility within the system if you wanted to make it a pass defense-first philosophy. I was also the first one here to note....thru quotes from Dareus that people here poo-poo'd...... in the following preseason that the Bills coaches were trying to get Dareus to become a two-gapping NT and that he was literally refusing to follow orders and that problems loomed because Rex wasn't willing to adapt to the talent.

Position coaches are also overrated I think, but we did appear to have some quality guys in Henderson and Pep who had the ears of their players.

 

That Petrine/Schwartz era defense was starting to play to their talent levels. They were getting their swagger. And then Rex threw the baby out with the bath water.

[Mat68]

With that said talent is needed. Every superbowl team has a few guys on the edge. But again a few. Realy only if they are elite does that work today.

[GunnerBill]

 

You were probably just one of those people who hated Pettine's D because it was susceptible to the run...........but so was Schwartz D. Pettine operated an effective, entertaining defense for a whole season with nothing but a rookie Kiko Alonso inside.......and the Bills D was playoff worthy that year.

 

I didn't hate Pettine's defense at all. Not at all. Pettine did a great job here, as did Schwartz. I have no stylistic preference for a 3-4, 4-3 under, 4-3 with a wide 9..... Blitz heavy, blitz lite.... none of that matters to me. I just want to see fundamentally sound defense I don't have any stylistic view as to how that is best achieved. I believe we will get that with McDermott based on his Carolina D.

[Seasons1992]

And I thought BBMB posters were the worst.

 

This board has gotten so ridiculous that I almost only live in the Off the Wall section these days........

[BADOLBILZ]

I can see how someone may confuse a well regarded assistant GM for a successful franchise with 15+ yrs of experience, including filling in as GM - for a septuagenarian former coach who's never had a front office job in his career.

 

I can see how someone can confuse a senile skinflint who needed the persuasion of his marketing GM to land one big contract a year to boost ticket sales with an owner of an open checkbook.

 

I can see how somebody can take the "build through the draft" comment and only apply it only to Jauron, when every other organization says the same thing.

 

Because the similarities of the two situations are so so similar, I need to dust off my McCargo jersey for old times sake.

 

Was Tom Modrak chopped liver compared to Brandon Beane?

 

He was the actual personnel man providing the players for Jauron/Levy's plan to copy the Patriots seemingly socialist-utopia approach to team building.

 

Who is Brandon Beane by comparison to Tom Modrak? NOBODY is the correct answer.

 

Modrak actually helped build the Bill Cowher Steelers teams and Reid Eagles teams that went to about 10 conference championships combined.

 

Brandon Beane got Panthers GM's a lot of coffee for a lotta' years.

 

He was Carolina's Russ Brandon. Both were tutored in scouting.......not people with personnel backgrounds.

 

I get the "he's new so he doesn't have losses to his name yet".........but show a little respect for people like Modrak and Donahoe who actually achieved something before coming to the poorly owned Bills franchise.

 

Ownership weakness/confusion is and remains a problem for this franchise.

[Seasons1992]

nah. for anyone to even begin a thread like this they have to be fairly wound up. you complain far too much to be a laid back guy. more than likely you're a fairly solitary man. maybe have a few friends that are willing to put up with your quirks. kinda middle of the road at work...ya know, a guy who really never wows anyone, but also doesn't get in the way. at parties you try to carry on conversation by showing what you know, and people will nod, agree and be nice, but ultimately they're just waiting for you to go away.

 

you're a fairly easy read.

*stands and applauds*

[Coach Tuesday]

 

I didn't hate Pettine's defense at all. Not at all. Pettine did a great job here, as did Schwartz. I have no stylistic preference for a 3-4, 4-3 under, 4-3 with a wide 9..... Blitz heavy, blitz lite.... none of that matters to me. I just want to see fundamentally sound defense I don't have any stylistic view as to how that is best achieved. I believe we will get that with McDermott based on his Carolina D.

 

Pettine's defense was not fundamentally sound, which bugged me. They were able to tackle QBs, but no one else.

[BillsVet]

Again though, isn't the fact that Pegula has invested in an actual front office a key difference this time around? I know Modrak had a decent enough reputation (although I recall it being discussed that he over-relied on BLESTO reports) but the group they brought in this year - paying big money to steal them away from the Chiefs, Texans, etc. - seems far more qualified than anything we've seen around here in a couple of decades.

 

I'm hoping so, at least... and I echo Bandit's point about hoping for an analytical approach to the draft, instead of a hole-plugging strategy...

 

I'd agree McD and Beane seem more in tune with current NFL trends and are trying to be ahead of the curve. Yet, in McD's first draft (minus Beane) they traded down in the first to acquire KC's first, but then traded up twice in the second to take Zay Jones and then Dawkins. If they're rebuilding, why do you trade up twice in your initial draft? Were those two guys that central to the plan? Because I know it wasn't Whaley, who was merely a placeholder by draft weekend.

 

Conceptually, I see the similarities to the DJ/Marv year. Sure, the names and faces have changed. The HC and GM are obviously younger. But at the outset, McD and Beane's methodology seems eerily similar. Trade/cut/not re-sign veteran players from the previous regime (Spikes, Fletcher, McGahee, Vincent, Milloy) versus this year (Watkins, Gilmore, Darby, Woods, Gillislee). Sign a bunch of bargain bin UFA's and then use the draft to back fill for the departed veterans.

 

Whether McD/Beane's decisions are better is to be seen.

 

The main difference will be whether the current front office actually values and subsequently positions themselves to get a good QB. DJ/Marv just went with Losman and only drafted 1 guy, Trentative, in their years with the team.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

I'd agree McD and Beane seem more in tune with current NFL trends and are trying to be ahead of the curve. Yet, in McD's first draft (minus Beane) they traded down in the first to acquire KC's first, but then traded up twice in the second to take Zay Jones and then Dawkins. If they're rebuilding, why do you trade up twice in your initial draft? Were those two guys that central to the plan? Because I know it wasn't Whaley, who was merely a placeholder by draft weekend.

 

Conceptually, I see the similarities to the DJ/Marv year. Sure, the names and faces have changed. The HC and GM are obviously younger. But at the outset, McD and Beane's methodology seems eerily similar. Trade/cut/not re-sign veteran players from the previous regime (Spikes, Fletcher, McGahee, Vincent, Milloy) versus this year (Watkins, Gilmore, Darby, Woods, Gillislee). Sign a bunch of bargain bin UFA's and then use the draft to back fill for the departed veterans.

 

Whether McD/Beane's decisions are better is to be seen.

 

The main difference will be whether the current front office actually values and subsequently positions themselves to get a good QB. DJ/Marv just went with Losman and only drafted 1 guy, Trentative, in their years with the team.

 

Good points. In McD's first draft, he squandered draft capital and plugged holes. It's concerning.

[GunnerBill]

 

Pettine's defense was not fundamentally sound, which bugged me. They were able to tackle QBs, but no one else.

 

It could have done with some refinement, sure. But that was a hell of a turn around in 1 year from doing nothing well to doing a lot well. Yes they had some way to go but he only had 1 year. If they'd have the same run game deficiencies in 3 or 4 years then I'd have moaned about it.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

It's amazing how many of the people bashing you haven't bothered to engage with the well-informed substance of your post. You might be wrong, but the parallel you're drawing is thoughtful and worth considering. The cutting away of veteran, somewhat prickly talent does seem familiar - didn't like it then, and I don't now.

 

It is early days and hopefully it won't turn into a pattern with these guys. I'm not super impressed, but I am trying keep an open mind and remain hopeful.

 

Your post, though, does make me a bit nervous.

[BringBackOrton]

 

Pettine's defense was not fundamentally sound, which bugged me. They were able to tackle QBs, but no one else.

That was a personnel issue more than anything else.

 

By a lot of advanced stats, the Pettine D was comparable to the Schwartz D.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Pettine's defense was not fundamentally sound, which bugged me. They were able to tackle QBs, but no one else.

 

Pettine had Kiko Alonso on run defense........and he had to play every defensive snap of the season.

 

Schwartz had Brandon Spikes and Preston Brown on run defense.

 

I think it was less of a fundamental comparison weakness than a personnel matter.

 

Alonso is a good modern pass-game first LB.........but he had to do everything in Pettine's D.

 

Carolina by comparison.........I think the Bills LB's aren't as good.......what does anyone else think?

[GunnerBill]

 

Pettine had Kiko Alonso on run defense........and he had to play every defensive snap of the season.

 

Schwartz had Brandon Spikes and Preston Brown on run defense.

 

I think it was less of a fundamental comparison weakness than a personnel matter.

 

Alonso is a good modern pass-game first LB.........but he had to do everything in Pettine's D.

 

Carolina by comparison.........I think the Bills LB's aren't as good.......what does anyone else think?

 

I agree with all this.

[thebandit27]

 

Carolina by comparison.........I think the Bills LB's aren't as good.......what does anyone else think?

 

It's not even close...however it's interesting that you bring up Pettine and Alonso, because I think there's a possibility that either Vallejo or Milano could fill in as a subpackage LB to play the same coverage role that Alonso played in Pettine's D.

 

Those guys don't have the same instincts as Kiko, nor do they appear to be (based on college video) anywhere near as effective against runs/screens as Kiko.