BillsFan4 Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 So then QB not really important? It's all about the coach. Or is it all about accumulating draft picks? I guess if Taylor isn't the guy no need to waste an early pick on a QB, just load up on WR and CB. Easy to find a QB in the late rounds. Not at all what I said. The QB is extremely important. But yeah, when you have maybe the greatest cosch in NFL history, I'd say that's a pretty big advantage. Brady is also a special QB. But I was saying that Belichick really helped in his development. The Patriots are an all around good team on offense and defense almost every year though, and Belichick is an absolute master at game planning and mid game adjustments. He's maybe the best I've ever seen in my lifetime. He is also fantastic at finding players that fit his team and getting more out of them than most others can. It's not just Brady out there by himself winning championships.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Because they stock pile them. 8 or is it 9 is it for Buffalo in 18 They didn't stockpile them this year. They picked 4 people.
CountDorkula Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 I dont like that talk as well... we wouldnt have added Gaines and Matthews if we were tanking. We would have just stocked up more draft picks. We simply added picks for future teams while adding more production for current team. It lowers our ceiling but raises our floor for this year Which is literally the worst thing they could have done. Either go for playoffs, or go for the cellar. Enough of this middle ground crap. IF they would have went for the cellar they could have a top 3 pick and all this additional draft capital, but instead it will be pick 12-15 and other draft capital that now has to be spent to move up in the draft. Maybe not the 5 of 7 Super Bowls. But yes, I think they would still be a very successful team even without Brady. He was a 6th round draft pick. I don't know if he ends up one of the greatest QBs ever without Belichick. Playing in the same offense his entire career is also a big help IMO. Belichick won 11 games with Matt Cassel! and went 3-1 with Garoppolo and Brisset. Brady is obviously s big reason for their success but Belichick is easily just as big a reason IMO. Brady isn't the most gifted QB in the NFL. There have been many more talented QBs than Brady in NFL history that never had nearly as much success. Right, because the Bills didn't beat a brady-less Pats 16-0. Wthout Brady the Pats are an average team, at best.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I got a mostly apathetic response from my non-Bills fans when I asked "Can you believe Sammy Watkins got traded??" Made me realize he's not the household name/ generational talent we all still think he is. For reference, Brandin Cooks got traded for the #32 overall pick and his stats look waaay better. Yeah - not exactly like... the best talent evaluators by any means. But it is telling how he is viewed: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-2017-ranking-the-30-best-wide-receivers-060917 (he's not on the list BTW...a top 30 list...) Edited August 16, 2017 by dneveu
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Donahoe was well regarded. - Yes Mularkey was well regarded. - Nobody heard of the guy outside of Pitt before he was hired Whaley was well regarded. - See above, other than sexting Gailey was well regarded. - No If you think Pegula has one iota of sports acumen your kidding yourself. The guy is easily persuaded hence the Rex hire. Why don't you ask Arthur Blank why he had Rex at the top of his list too
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Which is literally the worst thing they could have done. Either go for playoffs, or go for the cellar. Enough of this middle ground crap. IF they would have went for the cellar they could have a top 3 pick and all this additional draft capital, but instead it will be pick 12-15 and other draft capital that now has to be spent to move up in the draft. Right, because the Bills didn't beat a brady-less Pats 16-0. Wthout Brady the Pats are an average team, at best. It wasn't just bradyless... It was Jimmyless, and brissett had a broken bone in his throwing hand.
Royale with Cheese Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Donahoe was well regarded. Mularkey was well regarded. Whaley was well regarded. Gailey was well regarded. I'm sure he will let them do their jobs. Trading Watkins among other moves has me skeptical they will do a good job. If you think Pegula has one iota of sports acumen your kidding yourself. The guy is easily persuaded hence the Rex hire. Gailey was not well regarded. We were laughed at for the hiring since he was out of football for a year, fired as OC in KC and we hired him as HC. If this was the late 90's, yeah that's different. Teddy Bruschi went on ESPN and said Bills fans don't deserve this. Mularkey was a hot name coordinator so yes, somewhat well regarded. Whaley was unknown to almost everyone until the Bills reached out to him.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 You seriously think that the Patriots success happens with or without Brady? Did I say TB wasn't a good reason why? No, I did not. It just so happens that they have also had success w/o him. Matt Cassel anyone? 11 wins wasn't it? In the 18 to 20 games that I recall w/o Brady they won 14 or 15 of them. those are some pretty good odds.
Runninrams Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Did I say TB wasn't a good reason why? No, I did not. It just so happens that they have also had success w/o him. Matt Cassel anyone? 11 wins wasn't it? In the 18 to 20 games that I recall w/o Brady they won 14 or 15 of them. those are some pretty good odds. Belichick with the patriots is 19-18 without Brady 2000: 5-11 2001: 0-1 2008: 11-5 2016: 3-1 Cassel is an average QB, not like he was some gutter scrub that went 11-5. Also, that 11-5 record was still 5 games worse than the prior year, and they missed the playoffs. Also, think its just a coincidence that the 2000 and 2001 teams were close to the same roster yet 1 was 5-11 and the other was 11-5 and won the Superbowl? There was 1 major roster change.....Brady became the starter If back ups having some success in NE detracts from Brady's success then Joe Montana must've been a JAG. I mean Steve Young was able to step right in and have a HOF career with the same system and team, so clearly it wasn't the QB driving those SF teams Edited August 16, 2017 by Runninrams
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Nobody heard of Mularkey or Whaley? Bulllshitt. And Blank wasn't hiring Rex. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-fickle-falcons-led-rex-ryan-bills-job-article-1.2074037 Would be helpful if you know the right history, as opposed to the false one that you cling to. Very few people heard of Mularkey & Whaley. The only reason anyone knew about Whaley was from the email flap. Donahoe reached into his Pittsburgh past to get Mularkey who wasn't on anyone's radar before, and Pittsburgh actually preferred Mularkey to leave so they could move Whisenhunt into the OC job. Ryan was the favorite for Atlanta, but all talks stopped when Blank was observing shiva for his mother (which Mehta conveniently ignored in his article). That's the real origin of the "Don't let him out of this room" quote. Bills knew that if they let Ryan walk, Blank would resume discussions once his mourning was over.
chris heff Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 This is a serious question, I can't think of an example of an NFL franchise tanking where it worked?
K D Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 This is a serious question, I can't think of an example of an NFL franchise tanking where it worked?The Colts sucked for Luck when Peyton got hurt though some debate that http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1364521-indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-is-proof-that-tanking-works
hondo in seattle Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 I don't know why this surprises or annoys him. He traded away a better CB & better WR for a lesser WR & a lesser CB along with draft picks. That certainly would fall to "team building" but when you trade away the more talented players you shouldn't be surprised that people think the goal is to win less games that year. This is certainly accurate on the surface of things. But I wonder what other factors may have come into play. I wonder, for example, what the medical staff has been telling Beane and McD. Many posters here think Sammy's just fragile. Maybe the medical staff agrees. I wonder, too, how McD and Frazier saw Darby fitting into their D. While most consider Darby the better CB, maybe Frazier and McD think Gaines will perform just as well in the D they're implementing. Given what we now know, the trade sucks short-term but is good long-term. But maybe we don't know everything. And just maybe, all things considered, the Bills brain trust doesn't think the Bills got worse in 2017 and will get better with the extra draft picks in 2018.
chris heff Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 The Colts sucked for Luck when Peyton got hurt though some debate that http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1364521-indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-is-proof-that-tanking-works I can't open the link, but what has having Andrew Luck done for them? They haven't won anything. And at times have been pretty bad.
PolishDave Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 This is certainly accurate on the surface of things. But I wonder what other factors may have come into play. I wonder, for example, what the medical staff has been telling Beane and McD. Many posters here think Sammy's just fragile. Maybe the medical staff agrees. I wonder, too, how McD and Frazier saw Darby fitting into their D. While most consider Darby the better CB, maybe Frazier and McD think Gaines will perform just as well in the D they're implementing. Given what we now know, the trade sucks short-term but is good long-term. But maybe we don't know everything. And just maybe, all things considered, the Bills brain trust doesn't think the Bills got worse in 2017 and will get better with the extra draft picks in 2018. I think they just tipped their hat to the fact that they honestly don't care about the 2017 season. They are "pretending" to care. That is why there is tank talk. Fans imagine Sammy Watkins as (talent wise) being the type of receiver (when healthy of course) that every single team in the league wishes they had on their team. Bills finally had him healthy. So ditching him without a truly compelling reason seems like a move only made by a GM who doesn't care if his team is worse this year. Obviously some people think what Beane got for Watkins was enough. Many do not agree. If Beane is surprised by the tank talk, then he doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the Buffalo Bills fanbase - which is bad news for a GM in my opinion. This reaction was highly predictable. Could have been a lot worse. Still could be if this team ends up sucking big time this year.
K D Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 I can't open the link, but what has having Andrew Luck done for them? They haven't won anything. And at times have been pretty bad. 3 straight playoffs and AFC championship game before he got hurt
PolishDave Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 3 straight playoffs and AFC championship game before he got hurt Yet they got embarrassed by the lowly Buffalo Bills when they came to town. Sucking for Luck failed miserably.
Dr.Sack Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 To me Beane is a guy who has nothing to lose year 1. So he made some moves that we perceive to be bold. Does Beane want credit for his boldness? It seems he's disappointed that his boldness is being perceived around the league and by some fans as tanking.
zow2 Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 To me Beane is a guy who has nothing to lose year 1. So he made some moves that we perceive to be bold. Does Beane want credit for his boldness? It seems he's disappointed that his boldness is being perceived around the league and by some fans as tanking. You are correct on year 1. This is the honeymoon for McD and Beane. If they want to make bold, brash moves then now is the time. And they did it. I'm glad he is upset w/ the tank talk. It's not in his competitive nature. I'm sure Beane and coach still expect to compete for 2nd in the division and maybe a Wild card. Why not? They replaced Sammy w/ Bolden and Matthews. Maybe have a couple more nice weapons in Zay, Streater and Holmes.. Who knows. They still have Shady, Clay and some good talent on D. There's no reason for me to think "tank". They improved our chances greatly of being able to move up in the 2018 draft if they choose to get a top rated QB. Nothing but good in my eyes.
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