Jerry Hughes

[dave mcbride]

 

It's not arguable that Bills got worse on paper. It's certainly arguable whether the talent they lost would have contributed to more wins. To me it's a stretch to surmise that if the Bills jump out to 5-3, they would wilt without Sammy & Darby.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it is the case that seemingly every year some undertalented team gets off to a fast start (e.g., the Bills in 2007 and 2011). Then the talent problem emerges. Teams figure out what to take away, and said teams go 2-6 the rest of the way because they have players that can't overcome gameplanning that targets their deficiencies. Again, this seems to happen every goddamn year.

[Best Player Available]

Nice too see Hughes got his emotions together in the off season. What's the over/under on Hughes gameday penalties this seasom?

[GG]

Yes. One of those losses they put up over 600 yards of offense.

 

What was more impactful to the loss, Sammy's 154 yards or Darby getting lost in coverage (in a scheme that suited his strengths).

[Maddog69]

"off field" incident could be something as simple as missed curfew or late to a meeting. Doesn't have to be anything serious

[YoloinOhio]

"off field" incident could be something as simple as missed curfew or late to a meeting. Doesn't have to be anything serious

true.

[dave mcbride]

 

What was more impactful to the loss, Sammy's 154 yards or Darby getting lost in coverage (in a scheme that suited his strengths).

Call me crazy, but I'd say the shameful refereeing was far more impactful in that Dolphins' game.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

This is the realization I was hoping people would make about TT this off season. There are certainly worse qbs than him.

 

 

So how good will they do without those play makers? This trade upset me because you don't get rid of talented players for what ifs. Especially YOUNG talent. If you are going to move on from guys it should be the ones closer to the end than the beginning. Sammy is only 2 years older than Zay Jones for comparison. Sammy has proven he can play in this league.

 

I did finally put my finger on it though. I'm always excited for Bills football good or bad. This year I was pumped to watch the first preseason game. I got about 12 hours of excitement before the Bills decided I have to wait another 12 months for competitive football. I watched 4 straight passes from TT to Sammy and thought "that combo can do something this year" then they broke it up. Teams just don't give up YOUNG players of Sammy's caliber unless forced and certainly not for a 2nd round pick.

 

I'm a koolaid drinker but since this trade I feel a lot more like ScottLaw than I do John from Hemet. I'm left with a lot of why bother. I feel like someone kicked my dog. The Bills do this to me pretty much every year but at least they let me make it until November before they do that. Sorry to go so far off topic I still can't formulate my thoughts other than it f*cking sucks.

 

 

I think if you can look at the Bills objectively you understand that they may never win a Super Bowl........or if they do maybe it will only be one.......over the course of 70-100 years.

 

They are a very bad pro sports organization......always have been a mess at heart......mainly due to a lack of understanding of the sport.......which I think is what Ralph Wilson saw and liked/related to so much in Terrence Pegula.

 

But the journey is the real reward.......and that's what got lost with this trade........they deprived Bills fans that enjoy exciting football of a potentially dynamic playmaker with a long career in front of him in Sammy Watkins.

 

The concept........maybe using that modest little second round pick as part of an enormous grouping of picks to trade up for a QB........makes sense to those that can't simply understand that the Bills are entertainment........and not just a win-one-eventually-so-I-can-die operation.

 

Tanking doesn't work any better than building from mediocrity.......the best, most consistently competitive teams in the league got where they are now from levels very much like where the Bills have been.......mediocrity.

 

NE, Pittsburgh, GB, Seattle, Baltimore......even new arrivals like Dallas and Atlanta......none are built on tank jobs.

 

I call it like I see it but I got the Sammy news Friday and didn't think about it again until my vacation was over Monday.........this is entertainment we pay for folks........you don't need to make apologies for the sh*tclowns that run the product.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I think if you can look at the Bills objectively you understand that they may never win a Super Bowl........or if they do maybe it will only be one.......over the course of 70-100 years.

 

They are a very bad pro sports organization......always have been a mess at heart......mainly due to a lack of understanding of the sport.......which I think is what Ralph Wilson saw and liked/related to so much in Terrence Pegula.

 

But the journey is the real reward.......and that's what got lost with this trade........they deprived Bills fans that enjoy exciting football of a potentially dynamic playmaker with a long career in front of him in Sammy Watkins.

 

The concept........maybe using that modest little second round pick as part of an enormous grouping of picks to trade up for a QB........makes sense to those that can't simply understand that the Bills are entertainment........and not just a win-one-eventually-so-I-can-die operation.

 

Tanking doesn't work any better than building from mediocrity.......the best, most consistently competitive teams in the league got where they are now from levels very much like where the Bills have been.......mediocrity.

 

NE, Pittsburgh, GB, Seattle, Baltimore......even new arrivals like Dallas and Atlanta......none are built on tank jobs.

 

I call it like I see it but I got the Sammy news Friday and didn't think about it again until my vacation was over Monday.........this is entertainment we pay for folks........you don't need to make apologies for the sh*tclowns that run the product.

Yup!. People miss the fact that we're going to have a lousier entertainment product this year. "Wait 'til next year" is a meaningless (and indeed pernicious) philosophy w/regard to this organization. I always joke that if the Bills win the SB, I will never have to watch another sporting event again in my lifetime (and I'm not even really joking). Of course, I fully expect to hooked up to a respirator in 2050 watching them lose to the Jets and complaining on a message board about some stupid trade the team made.

[Coach Tuesday]

But the journey is the real reward.......and that's what got lost with this trade........they deprived Bills fans that enjoy exciting football of a potentially dynamic playmaker with a long career in front of him in Sammy Watkins.

 

That's the part that is still getting to me, 3 days later, and will probably continue to eat at me for quite awhile. The Bills don't seem to be in the business of winning games, fine, I've learned to live with that. But at the very least it was a joy to watch an elite athlete like Sammy on otherwise miserable Sunday afternoons during otherwise miserable seasons. BUT NOW THEY WON'T EVEN LET ME HAVE THAT.

 

And you well know that most of the folks around here who are defending the moves will be bitching and moaning in high throttle after the first few games of watching a flaccid offense featuring 4-yard rollout passes to a fullback.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[dezertbill]

I bet I know who is traded next.

 

This

[liverpoolkev]

 

That's right! Let's return to the glory days of Chris Kelsay!!

They already started with the two 5TH rd linebackers that were lighter than most safeties in the draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

Yup!. People miss the fact that we're going to have a lousier entertainment product this year. "Wait 'til next year" is a meaningless (and indeed pernicious) philosophy w/regard to this organization. I always joke that if the Bills win the SB, I will never have to watch another sporting event again in my lifetime (and I'm not even really joking). Of course, I fully expect to hooked up to a respirator in 2050 watching them lose to the Jets and complaining on a message board about some stupid trade the team made.

 

 

I think there is definitely an element of fans that would digest that SB trophy and then give the organization the middle finger and not come back.

 

Being a Bills fan has become a battle of attrition and I think a lot of people are just too stubborn to quit......but they are only staying to see the job completed.

 

By contrast.......I am a Yankees fan and I ONLY watch the games if they are entertaining.

 

And the Yankees know that they need to remain entertaining thru whatever stage of winning they are in.

 

The Bills don't..........there has always been an element of selfishness from Wilson now on to the Pegula's where they think the fans are here to watch them experiment in whatever way and for however long as they please.

 

The new generation of fans ain't down with that.........they are all about entertainment........which is why they aren't all about the Bills.

[GG]

 

 

I think there is definitely an element of fans that would digest that SB trophy and then give the organization the middle finger and not come back.

 

Being a Bills fan has become a battle of attrition and I think a lot of people are just too stubborn to quit......but they are only staying to see the job completed.

 

By contrast.......I am a Yankees fan and I ONLY watch the games if they are entertaining.

 

And the Yankees know that they need to remain entertaining thru whatever stage of winning they are in.

 

The Bills don't..........there has always been an element of selfishness from Wilson now on to the Pegula's where they think the fans are here to watch them experiment in whatever way and for however long as they please.

 

The new generation of fans ain't down with that.........they are all about entertainment........which is why they aren't all about the Bills.

 

How much more entertaining does it get than hiring an Oklahoma loudmouth and his feeble brother Fredo?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

That's the part that is still getting to me, 3 days later, and will probably continue to eat at me for quite awhile. The Bills don't seem to be in the business of winning games, fine, I've learned to live with that. But at the very least it was a joy to watch an elite athlete like Sammy on otherwise miserable Sunday afternoons during otherwise miserable seasons. BUT NOW THEY WON'T EVEN LET ME HAVE THAT.

 

And you well know that most of the folks around here who are defending the moves will be bitching and moaning in high throttle after the first few games of watching a flaccid offense featuring 4-yard rollout passes to a fullback.

 

Yeah here's the thing about Sammy:

 

He was probably the best freshman WR in NCAA football history.........just incredible.........and for good reason many people felt he was the best football player in his draft class.

 

He was drafted into a very bad organization that was just trying to stack talent without regard to development and as a result we've been waiting for him to teach himself how to reach his potential............and just as it appears he's ready to turn the corner.......they deal him for chump change.

 

The Bills just seem to have no real understanding of the limits of fandom.

 

I don't blame the folks who think Sammy sucked or that want the second round pick instead..........they just don't know what they were missing.

 

But it's inexcusable for these two first year nobodies to come in here and not take note of past history repeat the mistakes of the past.........as Peter King said........that HAS TO STOP.

[Buffalo716]

I think there is definitely an element of fans that would digest that SB trophy and then give the organization the middle finger and not come back.

 

Being a Bills fan has become a battle of attrition and I think a lot of people are just too stubborn to quit......but they are only staying to see the job completed.

 

By contrast.......I am a Yankees fan and I ONLY watch the games if they are entertaining.

 

And the Yankees know that they need to remain entertaining thru whatever stage of winning they are in.

 

The Bills don't..........there has always been an element of selfishness from Wilson now on to the Pegula's where they think the fans are here to watch them experiment in whatever way and for however long as they please.

 

The new generation of fans ain't down with that.........they are all about entertainment........which is why they aren't all about the Bills.

Ralph Wilson was not selfish and we were the million dollar bills at one point.

 

He spent money on the wrong players in the later half of his life. Derrick Dockery 7 year 49 million. 3rd Biggest guard contract of all time at that point.

 

Ralph was never selfish , he kept us where we belong. He made bad football decisions later in his life but that's all they were

[Coach Tuesday]

Ralph Wilson was not selfish and we were the million dollar bills at one point.

 

He spent money on the wrong players in the later half of his life. Derrick Dockery 7 year 49 million. 3rd Biggest guard contract of all time at that point.

 

Ralph was never selfish , he kept us where we belong. He made bad football decisions later in his life but that's all they were

 

Nonsense. Ralph authorized a few splash signings and then shed salaries in August (Langston Walker) when he decided that the team wasn't going to win the Super Bowl, so why spend the money. And he was notoriously stingy with his coaches and staff.

 

Are Bills fans so freakin' stupid that they fall for this stuff over and over again? Seriously this fanbase seems to be more prone to circus barking than any consumer group in the universe.

 

In fact - my first reaction to these trades was that this is Ralph all over again - shedding talent on the eve of the season, after the season ticket sales are all sewn up. It's cruel and unusual punishment that Bills fans seem to sign up for year after year.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[mjt328]

 

 

I think if you can look at the Bills objectively you understand that they may never win a Super Bowl........or if they do maybe it will only be one.......over the course of 70-100 years.

 

They are a very bad pro sports organization......always have been a mess at heart......mainly due to a lack of understanding of the sport.......which I think is what Ralph Wilson saw and liked/related to so much in Terrence Pegula.

 

But the journey is the real reward.......and that's what got lost with this trade........they deprived Bills fans that enjoy exciting football of a potentially dynamic playmaker with a long career in front of him in Sammy Watkins.

 

The concept........maybe using that modest little second round pick as part of an enormous grouping of picks to trade up for a QB........makes sense to those that can't simply understand that the Bills are entertainment........and not just a win-one-eventually-so-I-can-die operation.

 

Tanking doesn't work any better than building from mediocrity.......the best, most consistently competitive teams in the league got where they are now from levels very much like where the Bills have been.......mediocrity.

 

NE, Pittsburgh, GB, Seattle, Baltimore......even new arrivals like Dallas and Atlanta......none are built on tank jobs.

 

I call it like I see it but I got the Sammy news Friday and didn't think about it again until my vacation was over Monday.........this is entertainment we pay for folks........you don't need to make apologies for the sh*tclowns that run the product.

 

Agree 100% on the tanking comment.

 

The NFL isn't like other sports leagues. There are too many roster spots, too much risk on draft selections, too much fluctuation with injuries, too many outside factors with salary cap, coaching changes, scheme switches, etc. The idea that our best avenue was to purge talent, stockpile draft picks and rebuild a successful roster from scratch is nonsense.

 

I'm highly skeptical of this front office, until they start proving they can properly scout and make smart draft picks.

[section122]

 

That's the part that is still getting to me, 3 days later, and will probably continue to eat at me for quite awhile. The Bills don't seem to be in the business of winning games, fine, I've learned to live with that. But at the very least it was a joy to watch an elite athlete like Sammy on otherwise miserable Sunday afternoons during otherwise miserable seasons. BUT NOW THEY WON'T EVEN LET ME HAVE THAT.

 

And you well know that most of the folks around here who are defending the moves will be bitching and moaning in high throttle after the first few games of watching a flaccid offense featuring 4-yard rollout passes to a fullback.

 

Thank you for stating better than I could my point. Now I'm here agreeing with you and Badol. What have the Bills done to me.

 

I knew the Bills weren't challenging the Patriots. I gave up on that a few years ago. However I enjoy TT and McCoy because they are entertaining players. They make the highlight plays. Sammy was one of those guys too. Talking football might be more enjoyable than any other part for me. Now I don't want to talk football. I haven't gotten to talk friendly trash in almost 20 years! In the back of my mind is Colin Cowherd saying bad teams are bad because their fans allow it. We continue to support a sub par entertainment product and for what? Which leads me to...

 

Ralph Wilson was not selfish and we were the million dollar bills at one point.

 

He spent money on the wrong players in the later half of his life. Derrick Dockery 7 year 49 million. 3rd Biggest guard contract of all time at that point.

 

Ralph was never selfish , he kept us where we belong. He made bad football decisions later in his life but that's all they were

 

Ralph held the fans hostage for the last many years he owned the team. The Toronto series, the low spending on coaches, not re-signing talented players, etc. were moves designed to help the bottom line. The Bills of the 2000s are a direct result of his ownership. He constantly hung the threat of moving over the fans head to get them to fork over for a subpar product. I'm glad he did what he did to keep the Bills in Buffalo but we can't pretend it was all done with the best of intentions.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

How much more entertaining does it get than hiring an Oklahoma loudmouth and his feeble brother Fredo?

 

 

Rex Ryan had gone to AFC Championships from within the division......including THRU the Patriots once.

 

He was a bad hire because they ignored why he was fired in NY in the first place......he got lazy.

 

Pegulas gonna' Pegul.

 

McDermott and Beane are just two nobodies with clean slates......an overreaction to their initial poor judgement with the Ryan hire.

 

How about letting these two nobodies prove something before letting them gut the roster?

Edited August 14, 2017 by #BADOL

[section122]

shedding talent on the eve of the season, after the season ticket sales are all sewn up. It's cruel and unusual punishment that Bills fans seem to sign up for year after year.

 

This sentence. Anyone with a season ticket should be outraged that they dog and ponied until they got their money. I think I would be less mad if Watkins was traded months ago. They are just killing loyal blue collar fans. Who then line up and say please sir may I have another.

 

I moved at the start of the month and found my certificate for 5 years of seasons from 2009. I originally got tickets in 04 because I thought they would be good again soon and it would be fun. 5 years later I couldn't convince people to make the 2.5 hour trek each way and waste a Sunday on what is probably my favorite activity. In 09 we gave up our 4 tickets and said we would get them again after they made the playoffs. Almost a decade later and it still hasn't happened. We still got together every Sunday no matter what up until 2-3 years ago. Now I'm lucky if we catch 4 games together. I hope these trades work out for the team because I think the Bills are about all out of goodwill.