BillsFan4 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Who is Brandon Beane? This guy is operating off an outdated model IMO. A second round pick is hardly any ammo at all when moving up for a QB that is regarded as certain franchise(not maybes like Goff or Wentz). Watkins was much more valuable as an ENTICEMENT to any potential young QB or free agent QB. And if the trade-up doesn't work........HOPEFULLY(but far from realistically) you get 6 quality young players that will ALL be coming up for re-new of contracts in a two year period? Ridiculous. Proper roster building for consistent winning results is as much about spacing contracts and talent as anything. People who think Beane is using a "Patriots" model are very, very confused. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3200&type=team
BADOLBILZ Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 At least I'm consistent in my arguments. Since my memory is slipping in advanced age, maybe you can refresh me who the "old" poster was that was throwing cold water on the draft day trade that brought Watkins here in the first place? Fuzzy memory recalls a week long harangue that trading away that much value and taking a WR that high without a QB in place was a monumental waste. The logic was to move earth & mountains to get the QB first and then build the supporting cast, because that franchise QB will be on the roster 15+ years and you can always backfill talent around him. You know, kind of like Steelers and Giants have been doing, which covers up a lot of other personnel mistakes. So now we have a new staff which appears to take steps to build a proper foundation for the team, knowing that the QB position is still in flux. Yet suddenly your tenor changes, and you're perfectly fine to commit $100 million to a position that's useless until the QB is set. Why? Because you can declare that you were right all along. That's the main reason people rag on you. Again.......another lazy and incorrect take. My pick would ALWAYS be to take a QB with the first pick........that's never wavered. The draft is an ongoing process of roster building to me........not just a random annual event to patch holes the way the Bills treat it........and shots on QB's.....despite the high miss rate.....are the best value available. As evidenced by things like Dareus now being the only pre 2016 original Bills first round pick on the roster(Wood was drafted with a pick acquired in trade....for a future HOF'er ). So that means that in the 16 drafts since the Bills passed on Drew Brees in round one....from 2000-2015......the Bills now have just one of their first rounders to show for all that losing........and Brees is still playing and playing well. But I supported/defended the Sammy trade up. He was my top rated player in the draft........and my argument was the same.......it is a matchup league and if you can get a great talent at a critical position it's better than using those picks to patch holes with OK players you will just let walk in FA. FWIW......Aaron Donald was my second highest rated........and that was who I felt best fit bpa and most likely to be available with the Bills pick.
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) The beauty about your posts is that you always manage to take both side of an issue without missing a beat. Did you really think Jauron advised the exits of Fletcher and Clements? Or from another post, do you think Donahoe willingly dumped Fat Pat, as opposed given a choice between Pat and Schobel? As for comparisons to Giants and Steelers, please explain how Tomlin and Macadoo were given free reign to dump players, but somehow McD is held to a different standard by you? McD has the same pedigree that the guys above had, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves to be incompetent. Donohoe willingly dumped big Ted for being too fat, based on the rec of his noob coach who was wedded to a system. Tomlin wasn't given free reign, as far as I recall, and he didn't essenetially hire his own gm. That's the situation we have in Buffalo. -- McDermott HIRED the GM. That aimply can't be compared to the Steelers' situation. I actually think McDermott has potential, but the way he has started on the personnel front has me concerned. I have seen this show too many times before. Edited August 15, 2017 by dave mcbride
BringBackOrton Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 He was their most durable WR, especially considering OBJ's and Cruz's injuries. How many people would have predicted Sterling Shepard's production in August 2016? Shepard was a second rounder, not a street FA.
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Shepard was a second rounder, not a street FA. Early second rounder, actually.
CommonCents Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Sterling Shephard was a well known commodity coming out of Oklahama. He was billed as pro ready and was inserted along side OBJ, he actually had a fair amount of fantasy hype for a rookie because of his skill set and situation. His production was not a surprise to anyone that is in tune with the happenings around the league.
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Sterling Shephard was a well known commodity coming out of Oklahama. He was billed as pro ready and was inserted along side OBJ, he actually had a fair amount of fantasy hype for a rookie because of his skill set and situation. His production was not a surprise to anyone that is in tune with the happenings around the league. He basically produced exactly like jordan matthews (both were drafted within two picks of each other): good number of catches, low ypc. But the Giants are fine with that because they actually possess another receiver who can beat people over the top. Bob Woods is a similar comp and was also drafted at almost exactly the same spot. All are solid possession receivers who fill importanr roles provided they play across from a number 1. Woods and Shepherd have that now in Watkins and OBJ.
CommonCents Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 He basically produced exactly like jordan matthews (both were drafted within two picks of each other): good number of catches, low ypc. But the Giants are fine with that because they actually possess another receiver who can beat people over the top. Bob Woods is a similar comp and was also drafted at almost exactly the same spot. All are solid possession receivers who fill importanr roles provided they play across from a number 1. Woods and Shepherd have that now in Watkins and OBJ. Right. Zay could have similar production as SS when he gets a QB and outside threat like OBJ/Sammy. That was part of my gripe with the trade. You finally get an ideal support piece around Watkins, a mentor in Boldin, and after one quarter of a preseason game you ship him out. I don't care if he was a malcontent keep him around Boldin and let things work from there. It's all said and done now but blahhh it's frustrating as a fan.
YoloinOhio Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 @joebuscaglia #Bills HC Sean McDermott says Jerry Hughes "is playing relentless" so far this summer. #Bills HC Sean McDermott: "Post-whistle penalties... those are non-negotiable in my mind. Those are unacceptable." @chrisbrownbills McDermott: praises Hughes for the camp that he's put together. Keeping his post practice conversation w/Hughes between them. #Bills
Bill from NYC Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 You're grasping at straws Gerry.......there are usually a few elite HC prospects or veterans who bring a certain element of credibility to the table immediately. McDermott/Spagnolo/Marinelli types do not. I'd have liked all of these Bills coaches to be successful........but mainly because of the poor quality of ownership......these guys join the rudderless Bills and almost immediately, inexplicably micro-manage and go off course. See Dick Jauron........he joins the team......rights a messy ship on the field........but then, with league observers predicting big things for his Bills in the coming year.......he let's London Fletcher and Nate Clements(the two key turnover producing elements of his opportunistic defense) walk in free agency and trades FA-to-be Willis McGahee for scraps due to sign-ability. The three go on to stellar seasons with their new teams....... and the once ascending Bills get stuck in the mire as they use all of their draft capital for the next two seasons on replacements for prime-level veterans inexplicably set free. A Rooney or Mara would never allow the haphazard roster nonsense from a newbie coach/GM.........but with utterly clueless people in the owners box there is no voice of reason to let new people know when the haircut becomes a scalping. I'm sorry but Levy and Jauron destroyed this team with the 2006 draft and I called it that very day. They reached for and traded up for garbage, and focused on mediocre at best to second rate defensive backs. I predicted at the time that it would take 5 years to recover and I'm still waiting.
Andrew Son Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 But I supported/defended the Sammy trade up. He was my top rated player in the draft........and my argument was the same.......it is a matchup league and if you can get a great talent at a critical position it's better than using those picks to patch holes with OK players you will just let walk in FA. It's a league where the best systems, and the best QB's win. Lets go over the best WR's in the league. Off of the top of my head- Brown, OBJ, Julio, Green, Dez, Hopkins, Cooper. Throw in Sammy if you like, or even go back to guys like Megatron. Now add up all the championships. This is the NFL. There is great talent everywhere, even on the worst teams. But, in general, the same organizations win every year- even though they consistently pick later in the draft and acquire lesser "talents." Why? How do the great teams let their expensive players walk in FA. reload with lesser talent, and not miss a beat? System and QB trumps talent in a league where everyone is talented. We will be good if MCD and Beane are good. It is that simple. In the salary cap era, a strong organization trumps even the best non QB talent. We need to hope we finally got it right with our front office. From a team building perspective, it's probably not the best strategy to give up extra draft assets, and commit a large portion of the salary cap, to a #1 WR without a franchise QB in place. No matter how elite. How do you increase your odds of finding a QB? Stockpile picks and manage the cap to allow for maximum flexibility in acquiring one, either in the draft or FA. Not by carelessly using our resources to- trade up for non QB players, or sign non QB players to big FA contracts. We have seen how that works. I know everyone likes to reference losing Lynch, but we do sign guys. We've extended Dareus, Glenn, and Hughes. Gone after guys like Shady and Mario. Keep and add all of this talent, and still don't win. Great talent but none of it really matters. Are you still going to claim that you were correct in thinking that the trade up for Sammy was the correct move for this organization? Until we have the right front office in place (hopefully now), and identify our franchise QB, the rest is just noise and doesn't really move the needle. Sammy included.
papazoid Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 jerry hughes is a talented mental knucklehead. a one trick pony speed rusher. overpaid very likely last year with team.
JM57 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 jerry hughes is a talented mental knucklehead. a one trick pony speed rusher. overpaid very likely last year with team. IMO taking a $5.8 million dead cap hit next year just to save $4.6 million would be very dumb. I think he has at least two more years here. If cut after the 2018 season, it's a $2.9 million dead cap hit, with $7.5 million in relief. That timing would also coincide with Shaq Lawson coming up for an extension off of his rookie deal, and is prior to there being any financially feasible out on Dareus' deal. (2019 is the first out there, with a $7.8 million dead cap hit for a roughly $10.2 million savings)
DrDawkinstein Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 jerry hughes is a talented mental knucklehead. a one trick pony speed rusher. overpaid very likely last year with team. IMO taking a $5.8 million dead cap hit next year just to save $4.6 million would be very dumb. I think he has at least two more years here. If cut after the 2018 season, it's a $2.9 million dead cap hit, with $7.5 million in relief. That timing would also coincide with Shaq Lawson coming up for an extension off of his rookie deal, and is prior to there being any financially feasible out on Dareus' deal. (2019 is the first out there, with a $7.8 million dead cap hit for a roughly $10.2 million savings) Yes! Only 2 more years and then we can start dismantling the strongest part of our weak-ass team! Perfect Buffalo plan, so Billsy.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 jerry hughes is a talented mental knucklehead. - TRUE a one trick pony speed rusher. - NOT TRUE overpaid - NOT TRUE very likely last year with team. - NOT TRUE
bmur66 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Sounds like a normal camp for Mr. Hughes. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad....and try to minimize the bad
DrDawkinstein Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Not sure if this has been mentioned in the previous 11 pages... But with regards to his "performance" at practice and getting into it with coaches, it was Jerry's birthday on Sunday. I wonder if maybe he partied too hard, or had asked for the day off and they denied him, or something else happened surrounding his birthday celebration, that caused an issue and lead to Frazier yelling at him like he did, "IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT YOU, JERRY. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU!"
YoloinOhio Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 Not sure if this has been mentioned in the previous 11 pages... But with regards to his "performance" at practice and getting into it with coaches, it was Jerry's birthday on Sunday. I wonder if maybe he partied too hard, or had asked for the day off and they denied him, or something else happened surrounding his birthday celebration, that caused an issue and lead to Frazier yelling at him like he did, "IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT YOU, JERRY. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU!" imo, Frazier forgot his cake and Jerry was pissed
K D Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Not sure if this has been mentioned in the previous 11 pages... But with regards to his "performance" at practice and getting into it with coaches, it was Jerry's birthday on Sunday. I wonder if maybe he partied too hard, or had asked for the day off and they denied him, or something else happened surrounding his birthday celebration, that caused an issue and lead to Frazier yelling at him like he did, "IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT YOU, JERRY. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU!" every day is Jerry's day. very selfish player. him and Dareus are supposed to be the leaders of the defense and they are a couple of knuckleheads. neither will last with this regime.
row_33 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Still blaming Marv's draft from...... 2006? every day is Jerry's day. very selfish player. him and Dareus are supposed to be the leaders of the defense and they are a couple of knuckleheads. neither will last with this regime. As long as he can produce above average he can stay. The second he doesn't, he rides out of town on an ice floe.
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