Chuck Wagon Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Stop changing schemes every freaking two years. Completely agree, but the change has been made, may as well flip the guy when he's got value before trying to fit a round peg into a square hole and the league thinking he's no good.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 You seem to be obsessed with my "bias" against Sammy. I'm not even saying that he didn't want to be here. I've only said that people shouldn't try to claim they know those type of details. Go cry at your Watkins shrine this season, I'll be rooting for our team to win some games. Not obsessed at all, just a statement of what you previously admitted to and the fact that it's reflected in your posts. I guess I'm supposed to agree with everything OBD does or it's a matter of rooting against the team.
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I'll agree with your last paragraph. It makes it even more difficult when you don't know someone personally. When we know someone personally we are able to assess our trust levels. Many people are still bad at assessing others. Some fans get emotionally hooked, they feel as if they do know these guys personally. There is an assumption in taking someone for their word. Particularly someone you don't know. You have no clue if Sammy is a man of his word. That said I have no clue that he isn't. I'm not missing the point. I simply disagree with your point. You disagree that it makes no sense to say that he didn't want to be here when the only on-the-record statements we have from him say, explicitly, that he wants to be here? Because that was my point. Gaines I believe was All rookie team two years ago. I think he likes zone more than Darby. Not sure...all I know is that Darby played very well in Rex's D in 2015, and Rex used zone about 50% of the time.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Not obsessed at all, just a statement of what you previously admitted to and the fact that it's reflected in your posts. I guess I'm supposed to agree with everything OBD does or it's a matter of rooting against the team. Historically I've been a big OBD critic. I would never tell someone not to criticize OBD. Personally I just want to give the new regime a chance. Posters seem to have Bills PTSD clouding that ability. I'm not sure what I "admitted" to. We all have "bias" involved in everything we post on TBD.
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 You disagree that it makes no sense to say that he didn't want to be here when the only on-the-record statements we have from him say, explicitly, that he wants to be here? Because that was my point. Not sure...all I know is that Darby played very well in Rex's D in 2015, and Rex used zone about 50% of the time. Yeah but he fell off last year. Grimes did too. So to me a wash.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 Yeah but he fell off last year. Grimes did too. So to me a wash. Gaines.
Captain Murica Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Gaines I believe was All rookie team two years ago. I think he likes zone more than Darby. Career highlights and awards PFWA All-Rookie Team (2014) First team All-SEC (2013) First team All-Big 12 (2011)
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Darby wasn't a scheme fit. i doubt it was anything like him not "buying in." he seems like he has a good attitude and was probably trying his best I keep reading about this "wasn't a scheme fit". Let's look at what Wade Phillips had to say on that topic the year he coached the Broncos D to the Superbowl: "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of."
Boatdrinks Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I guess most people arguing the trade don't get the fact that: 1)sammy might want more term and money than the Bills are prepared to pay. 2) The Tag is 13m + and its guaranteed. 3) He doesn't have to sign the tag and could demand a trade. 4) Didn't everyone give Whaley flack for sitting on Gilmore and nsot getting anything in return? 5) Time to move on 67% of fans like or understand the trades. Totally different deal with Gilmore. If you've been paying attention, the team for years has had a set value at CB. They think that CBs have been overvalued in FA relative to their impact toward winning a championship. What Whaley did there was fine: i.e. keep your drafted player at a reasonable cost that the 5th year option allows. So you have a solid if unspectacular CB for five years. That's not bad. The money should be spent on QBs , pass rushers, LTs, dominant DLs and offensive stars. Not corners. No we don't know what Watkins wanted or could have commanded based on production. We do know that the market and production dictates value when it comes to second contracts in the NFL. In others words Watkins will get what the market dictates, not whatever he asks for. He said " if I play like I'm capable of I'll get what I deserve". No reason to assume his negotiations would be any different than one that the Bills have successfully negotiated . A built in excuse of " they MAY not have been able to re sign him" is letting this FO off the hook for the mistake of not picking up the option. There was no need to make a big decision on a long term deal until sometime in 2018 season at the earliest . They would have plenty of data to make a decision then. If you haven't noticed , this team has VERY FEW STARS. Why the worry about a what is actually a manageable cap number. Folks act like the Bills have tons of blossoming starts that they drafted and are coming off a SB run and looming cap issues. You don't assume you will lose talent over money before you even get there. Total fail by the Bills front office . You are correct on one thing. We can't do anything about it as fans. We don't however have to like it or accept mismanagement as the standard because we happen to be Bills fans. Edited August 14, 2017 by Boatdrinks
BADOLBILZ Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) So if I think Watkins didn't really want to play in Buffalo catching 4 passes a game from Tyrod Taylor, I'm pathetic and wrong? That's pretty harsh. It's probably more of a reflection of how much denial you need to be in to remain comfortable. It was CLEAR when they traded Peters and Lynch that they were going to be VERY hard pressed to get similar talent/production in return..........and yet, both got a thumbs up because of spin from the FO. Russ got himself bent over by Eugene Parker wrt Peters... because Russ was football naive/dumb......and he cried to the media to get support from fans. Lynch had his off-field stuff and Chan/Buddy were NEW so they got free run to give him away for peanuts. People always remember the reasons why players were dealt as being significant........but they forget how a fan favorite like Aaron Williams twitter battled with fans as he struggled at CB or how Bruce Smith had cocaine issues etc.. Most problems players have tend to get resolved with success...........and the outlook for Sammy in Buffalo this year was very bright.....not 4 receptions per game. Edited August 14, 2017 by #BADOL
Chuck Wagon Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I keep reading about this "wasn't a scheme fit". Let's look at what Wade Phillips had to say on that topic the year he coached the Broncos D to the Superbowl: "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of." IMO that is the number 1 indicator of a good coach, the ability to fit your scheme to your personnel, not the other way around. Game plans need to be adaptable. The Pats have been the best in the business at modeling their "scheme" to fit their personnel and to exploit the opponents weaknesses. Rex refusing to adopt his scheme to fit the personnel on hand is the top reason he failed. I give McD a little more rope than Rex simply because he's inheriting a tire fire, not a top 5 defense and it's a whole regime change, but worrying about scheme fits instead of fitting schemes is a concern.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Cause you pick from the Patriot organization, since they've won the most, you'll be successful right? - Romeo Crennell - Charlie Weiss - Josh McDaniels - Scott Pioli All have had success outside of New England. I'm sure you know all the next up and coming GM's so you think you're a front office expert. Those guys are talked about a lot to the general public. You are just totally off on a tangent.......not your fault........inbred on a river in rural Georgia with an uncle/lover like Teef must have been a tough way to start life. If you get a great prospect as HC......a prodigy like a Kyle Shanahan for instance........you commit to his program hard and hope he doesn't flame out. A middling one like Rod Marinelli or Steve Spagnolo or Sean McDermott.....the kind of guys that take jobs in Buffalo or Detroit or St. Louis...........you keep on a shorter leash. I see the systems the Bills have in place now as pretty homogenous.........they should be able to find a long list of replacements that would run very similar systems if necessary. McDermott's seat will be hot if he's not winning by year 2. TPegula isn't EVER going to have patience.......he's getting old......he's seen how his tank didn't work in hockey.......he's not waiting 4 years IMO.
Buffalo86 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 With so many Bills fans falling over themselves to defend Whaley's every move, it's no surprise that so many are sad to see his underachieving players removed from the roster. Good riddance, I say. Some day soon we'll learn that winning doesn't require a never ending string of excuses.
Saxum Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Stop changing schemes every freaking two years. Yes the Bills should follow your advice and not change schemes from Rex's. Should they have kept Rex too?
Coach Tuesday Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Yes the Bills should follow your advice and not change schemes from Rex's. Should they have kept Rex too? No, but bringing in someone who could run a similar scheme but who wouldn't mail it in like Rex did would've been a better approach. Lynn as HC and Wade as DC, for instance...
Boatdrinks Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 No, but bringing in someone who could run a similar scheme but who wouldn't mail it in like Rex did would've been a better approach. Lynn as HC and Wade as DC, for instance... I love Wade as D.C. As he is one of the few who actually believe you can play defense either way, and will adapt to the team's personnel on hand. Most of the guys are married to one philosophy of defense and that's all they know. With so many Bills fans falling over themselves to defend Whaley's every move, it's no surprise that so many are sad to see his underachieving players removed from the roster. Good riddance, I say. Some day soon we'll learn that winning doesn't require a never ending string of excuses. Sammy was my favorite player on the team. I didn't like the price they paid to get him, and I didn't care at all for Whaley. Dumping your most talented WR just wasn't a smart move. They should have let him play the next two seasons to see if he could be the star WR his talent level showed he could be . His value to the Bills if healthy was much greater than what they will get with a second round pick.
teef Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 It's probably more of a reflection of how much denial you need to be in to remain comfortable. It was CLEAR when they traded Peters and Lynch that they were going to be VERY hard pressed to get similar talent/production in return..........and yet, both got a thumbs up because of spin from the FO. Russ got himself bent over by Eugene Parker wrt Peters... because Russ was football naive/dumb......and he cried to the media to get support from fans. Lynch had his off-field stuff and Chan/Buddy were NEW so they got free run to give him away for peanuts. People always remember the reasons why players were dealt as being significant........but they forget how a fan favorite like Aaron Williams twitter battled with fans as he struggled at QB or how Bruce Smith had cocaine issues etc.. Most problems players have tend to get resolved with success...........and the outlook for Sammy in Buffalo this year was very bright.....not 4 receptions per game. So if someone doesn't agree with your opinion, they're in denial? Why was sammy's future in buffalo so bright this year? I liked sammy too, but there's nothing to suggest this year would be any different at all. Considering his health, the qb throwing to him, and the addition of doldin and jones, I'm willing to bet there'a not much change in production. As usual you're just being a blowhard. I've never seen someone think so high of their opinion, only to be proven wrong time and time again.
Buffalo86 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Sammy was my favorite player on the team. I didn't like the price they paid to get him, and I didn't care at all for Whaley. Dumping your most talented WR just wasn't a smart move. They should have let him play the next two seasons to see if he could be the star WR his talent level showed he could be . His value to the Bills if healthy was much greater than what they will get with a second round pick. Maybe, but "if healthy" is a huge caveat when it comes to Sammy. As things stand now, Sammy's 2018 pay under the 5th year option would've been second only to Antonio Brown's. It'll be interesting to see how much $ he commands from the Rams, as he probably would've been looking for at least that much from Buffalo.
Boatdrinks Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Maybe, but "if healthy" is a huge caveat when it comes to Sammy. As things stand now, Sammy's 2018 pay under the 5th year option would've been second only to Antonio Brown's. It'll be interesting to see how much $ he commands from the Rams, as he probably would've been looking for at least that much from Buffalo. I think he will play the season out with the Rams and either get tagged or hit FA. A tag and trade is even possible. All around a great deal for the Rams for just a 2nd rounder.
CarpetCrawler Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 From the same article... The reality of this situation, though, is that the Bills are not going to win now, even if Darby and Watkins had been playing great. Playing for 2018 is smarter. And Buffalo also had to worry about Watkins and the cap. Because the team didn’t exercise the fifth-year option for Watkins, ensuring that he’d be a free agent after this season, Beane would have had to try to sign Watkins late this season (when the team has just $8.1 million remaining under the cap) or likely face franchising him next spring. So they risked Watkins playing great this year and looking dumb for letting him go … or trading him now for real value. A pick around number 40 or 45 in 2018 appealed more to Beane.
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