Billsfan1972 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 this is why they're making the moves they are now, (i think). this team has to be re-established, get a new qb, and grow. it just depends if mcd and bean are the right guys to do it. if they are, the constant turnover stops. i'd be very surprised if this management was gone after 2 years, no matter what happens. to quote the past 12 years doesn't mean anything to me. different team with different heads not. i'm not going to blame what happened over 17 years on the new bosses. i think we're saying the same thing. he can be great, but it depends on health and the qb. right now i'm not sure either are going his way for him. not that they can't, but he has to show the nfl he can. Who said the QB is bad. I saw him with proper coaching and Watkins as the primary target and McCoy as being more then acceptable. Thanks for torpedoing 2017 in August..... But boy mark you calendar April 26-28, 2018....... The draft will be better then any Bills game.....
plenzmd1 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) As for Tom Brady, what do you think would have happened if Bledsoe never got injured? Brady may never have gotten a chance or if he did, maybe on a bad team. Look at Prescott..... If Romo wasn't injured where would he be. We had a top 5 talent (can anyone argue that) and gave him away for little..... WTF are trying to say here? I cannot follow the logic at all how Sammy getting traded somehow relates to QB's getting injured. And hell yes, i can argue Top 5 talent...he has been in the league 3 years, and not even close to being in the Top 5 of Receivers in this league. No one can argue that based on production. And i assume you are all about production, cause your entire argument is potential in the draft means nothing, it s a crapshoot, and proven production in the NFL is what is critical. Hell, he may not even be in the Top 5 of his draft class at WR, let alone top 5 in that draft over all. And BTW, i am a Sammy fan, and my kid wears a Sammy jersey to every freaking game we go to Yes, I would like to bet that Sammy Watkins doesn't get targeted 192 times next year. Am willing to bet up to $5000, but will need to escrow to a trusted third party. Please quote this post to confirm your desire to wager. Scott will fade away when pressed to have some courage behind his convictions Edited August 14, 2017 by plenzmd1
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 this is why they're making the moves they are now, (i think). this team has to be re-established, get a new qb, and grow. it just depends if mcd and bean are the right guys to do it. if they are, the constant turnover stops. i'd be very surprised if this management was gone after 2 years, no matter what happens. to quote the past 12 years doesn't mean anything to me. different team with different heads not. i'm not going to blame what happened over 17 years on the new bosses. i think we're saying the same thing. he can be great, but it depends on health and the qb. right now i'm not sure either are going his way for him. not that they can't, but he has to show the nfl he can. Fair enough, but they just hired and fired a coach in ... less than two years. And let's not even bring up the hockey team.
Billsfan1972 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 Yes, I would like to bet that Sammy Watkins doesn't get targeted 192 times next year. Am willing to bet up to $5000, but will need to escrow to a trusted third party. Please quote this post to confirm your desire to wager. Odell, Julio & Antonio all have 10 targets/wk. Watkins 7, as receivers on average catch .667 of targets that will have him at 80 receptions. I see that as legitimate.
akm0404 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Scott will fade away when pressed to have some courage behind his convictions It was actually Billsfan1972 that offered the wager.
plenzmd1 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Like what? What are we talking about? I attributed a post to you in error, my mistake. Having said that, you said willing to bet life savings on this trade is a bust for the Bills..I said I am all in if we can come to a reasonable way to judge the trade...so come up with something and we can wager what ya like.
teef Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Fair enough, but they just hired and fired a coach in ... less than two years. And let's not even bring up the hockey team. eh...i think they tried to hard when they came on to keep some sort of continuity. this is the real shot at a "rebuild".
akm0404 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Odell, Julio & Antonio all have 10 targets/wk. Watkins 7, as receivers on average catch .667 of targets that will have him at 80 receptions. I see that as legitimate. So you accept the wager? You're betting that Sammy Watkins receives 12 targets x 16 games = 192 or more in the 2017-2018 NFL season. I'm betting that he'll receive 191 targets or fewer in the 2017-2018 NFL season. How much action (up to my limit of $5000) are you looking to take?
Billsfan1972 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 WTF are trying to say here? I cannot follow the logic at all how Sammy getting traded somehow relates to QB's getting injured. And hell yes, i can argue Top 5 talent...he has been in the league 3 years, and not even close to being in the Top 5 of Receivers in this league. No one can argue that based on production. And i assume you are all about production, cause your entire argument is potential in the draft means nothing, it s a crapshoot, and proven production in the NFL is what is critical. Hell, he may not even be in the Top 5 of his draft class at WR, let alone top 5 in that draft over all. And BTW, i am a Sammy fan, and my kid wears a Sammy jersey to every freaking game we go to Scott will fade away when pressed to have some courage behind his convictions Brady may be an all-time great, but if Bledsoe wasn't injured and Belichek not his coach, what would have been his career like? Prescott wouldn't even be playing yet if not for the Romo injury and he too benefits from a great line, RB & coaching. Really that hard to follow?
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I attributed a post to you in error, my mistake. Having said that, you said willing to bet life savings on this trade is a bust for the Bills..I said I am all in if we can come to a reasonable way to judge the trade...so come up with something and we can wager what ya like. I think so much depends on what happens. It's conceivable that the Rams go 10-6, KC goes 12-4, and the Bills go 7-9. Or they could go 3-13, 7-9, and 4-12. Regardless, the Bills will have a lot of picks. The issue is whether there are enough good QBs to draft and whether the Bills will have the ammo to move up. If they don't get a qb, then the trade doesn't make a whole lot of sense assuming Watkins stays healthy and performs to his ability.
Billsfan1972 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 So you accept the wager? You're betting that Sammy Watkins receives 12 targets x 16 games = 192 or more in the 2017-2018 NFL season. I'm betting that he'll receive 191 targets or fewer in the 2017-2018 NFL season. How much action (up to my limit of $5000) are you looking to take? How about we bet he has more then the 7 he averaged in 3 years as a Bill. $5,000 Okay???? Figure of speech. He'll be utilized much more then he was in Buffalo where his talent was wasted.
plenzmd1 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Brady may be an all-time great, but if Bledsoe wasn't injured and Belichek not his coach, what would have been his career like? Prescott wouldn't even be playing yet if not for the Romo injury and he too benefits from a great line, RB & coaching. Really that hard to follow? Yes, 100% hard follow to in a thread started being convinced the Bills made a mistake on trading away Sammy for draft picks and a decent player that fits a need on the team...please explain what this has to do at all with your thesis and conclusions this trade was a mistake.
akm0404 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 How about we bet he has more then the 7 he averaged in 3 years as a Bill. $5,000 Okay???? Figure of speech. He'll be utilized much more then he was in Buffalo where his talent was wasted. Ok, so you don't think he'll get targeted 12 times per game. I suppose that is my mistake for assuming that by saying that he'd get 12 targets per game in LA, that you thought he'd actually get 12 targets per game. I actually think that 7 targets per game expanded out to 112 is still a winning bet for the under, as the Rams #1 receiver last year had only 111 targets, and Sammy Watkins does not project to play an entire 16 game season. But, on that I am not willing to bet $5000.
plenzmd1 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I think so much depends on what happens. It's conceivable that the Rams go 10-6, KC goes 12-4, and the Bills go 7-9. Or they could go 3-13, 7-9, and 4-12. Regardless, the Bills will have a lot of picks. The issue is whether there are enough good QBs to draft and whether the Bills will have the ammo to move up. If they don't get a qb, then the trade doesn't make a whole lot of sense assuming Watkins stays healthy and performs to his ability. Agree Dave, but think the key word there is "potential'? OP main argument we are trading a proven commodity for draft picks, which represent "potential" So let me ask you this . if Watkins has the same year as his first three years..his proven production in 3 years so to speak.will the trade be a bust?
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Agree Dave, but think the key word there is "potential'? OP main argument we are trading a proven commodity for draft picks, which represent "potential" So let me ask you this . if Watkins has the same year as his first three years..his proven production in 3 years so to speak.will the trade be a bust? I'm not sure I follow the question. I think you're sort of asking whether he's injury prone. I think every NFL player is "injury prone," so I think it's the wrong question to ask (and I realize I'm putting words in your mouth). Does he have chronic injuries like bad tendinitis or spinal disc problems that are going to debilitate him long term, or does he have injuries that one can recover from and simply move on with no lasting damage? From everything I've read, he has the latter. Who knows whether he stays healthy, but you can say that about literally every player in the NFL.
BillsfanAZ Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Gaines and Matthews are FAs at the end of the year. People are obsessed with the draft picks which is asinine. They are getting these draft picks by TRADING TALENTED YOUNG PLAYERS. Fans are essentially happy we traded established, young players for unkown rookies. It's crazy. It was very unlikely that Watkins would have resigned with Buffalo. According to most draft experts, the 2018 draft will have 4-5 QB's that could go in the first round including at least 2 that could be top 5 picks.
plenzmd1 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I'm not sure I follow the question. I think you're sort of asking whether he's injury prone. I think every NFL player is "injury prone," so I think it's the wrong question to ask (and I realize I'm putting words in your mouth). Does he have chronic injuries like bad tendinitis or spinal disc problems that are going to debilitate him long term, or does he have injuries that one can recover from and simply move on with no lasting damage? From everything I've read, he has the latter. Who knows whether he stays healthy, but you can say that about literally every player in the NFL. Yes, I worded it poorly. I am saying based on his production over 3 years, this trade makes sense. Most keep pointing to his "potential" , or as you stated"perform to this ability" , then he should be a stud. I agree with that, but to date, he has not done that. THE OP's argument was draft picks represent potential, and my argument is Sammy represents the exact same thing. In terms of the injuries, i do not fear the foot, from everything i have read, that sucker should be fine after the 2nd surgery. It is always the more nagging little injuries like hammys, ankles, etc that i fear. And its not that he misses a game, is that those things keep him from playing to his potential.
White Linen Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Yes, I worded it poorly. I am saying based on his production over 3 years, this trade makes sense. Most keep pointing to his "potential" , or as you stated"perform to this ability" , then he should be a stud. I agree with that, but to date, he has not done that. THE OP's argument was draft picks represent potential, and my argument is Sammy represents the exact same thing. In terms of the injuries, i do not fear the foot, from everything i have read, that sucker should be fine after the 2nd surgery. It is always the more nagging little injuries like hammys, ankles, etc that i fear. And its not that he misses a game, is that those things keep him from playing to his potential. I agree with this and the secondary issue that comes along with that is a team will have to pay him on that said potential instead of results. Sammy will most likely get $13-15 mil per year and that's obviously not something the Bills saw themselves doing.
Billsfan1972 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Posted August 14, 2017 I agree with this and the secondary issue that comes along with that is a team will have to pay him on that said potential instead of results. Sammy will most likely get $13-15 mil per year and that's obviously not something the Bills saw themselves doing. And why is that? If a player is worth $12-15 million and is the going rate and you have a star, then why not pay him? The Bills management have shown themselves to be so much ahead of the curve and smarter? Sorry The Pats and a few others get a pass to make such bold moves, the Bills do not. They traded the #4 pick for pennies on the $ and have put TT in a tough position. Now if thjey only traded Darby and said we're going all in on offense with Shady, Watkins, a veteran in Boldin & Matthews then I'd buy it.
Big Turk Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 A top pick in the 33-39 range and a starting CB is a decent haul for damaged goods. A proven healthy Watkins gets you a 1st. That is pretty close to a 1st. In terms of value I have no problem. I just dont know how long the Bills can keep losing players though. That is my biggest concern. Sets us back. Hopefully they sign Gaines and Matthews. The issue once again is that no WR who had the same injury as Sammy and had the second surgery ever had a reoccurence of that issue... So that foot injury based on others that had the exact same injury and second surgery was very unlikely to bother him again.
Recommended Posts