SoTier Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Draft picks are usually a sign that you suck. Look at Cleveland and SF this year. They had a ton of picks. Agree. I think the last time a team built a powerhouse team from having a bunch of high picks all in one draft was when San Diego got a bunch for trading Eli Manning to the Giants for Phillip Rivers (2004/2005). Before that, it was probably Dallas back in the late 1980s from trading Herschel Walker to the Vikings. Crappy teams make crappy personnel decisions, and consequently, their drafts suck even when they have numerous high picks. The Bills have proven that to be true throughout their history, most recently in 2009 when they had 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders in 2009 IIRC -- and blew the best one on one of their worst busts: Aaron Maybin. I see no reason to think that the Bills won't screw the pooch once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Agree. I think the last time a team built a powerhouse team from having a bunch of high picks all in one draft was when San Diego got a bunch for trading Eli Manning to the Giants for Phillip Rivers (2004/2005). Before that, it was probably Dallas back in the late 1980s from trading Herschel Walker to the Vikings. Crappy teams make crappy personnel decisions, and consequently, their drafts suck even when they have numerous high picks. The Bills have proven that to be true throughout their history, most recently in 2009 when they had 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders in 2009 IIRC -- and blew the best one on one of their worst busts: Aaron Maybin. I see no reason to think that the Bills won't screw the pooch once again. That's the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Mister 57 posts, how long have you been alive on earth? 6 years? Is that how far back you go as a Bills fan? Let me count the ways: Did you enjoy those 3 win and 4 win seasons? When 6 wins was an improvement? When we were picking the likes of Aaron Maybin in 1st rounds? This is an excellent post. Whaley was something we didn't have in the 2000's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Tom Brady was a 6th round pick Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24th overall Joe Flacco was 18th overall Big Ben was 11th overall Kirk Cousins was a 4th round pick Derek Carr was a 2nd round pick You can get your franchise QB from almost any draft position. It's all about coaching a QB up, along with having talent. Is Dennison a good enough coach to coach up whatever QB the Bills bring in. That is the biggest question. You forgot Russell Wilson who went in the 3rd round in 2012. The Bills passed on him to take trade up to take TJ Graham who couldn't stay healthy and couldn't catch the ball when he was healthy! 7+ QBs get drafted every year and 5-6 of them flame out of the league while 0-2 of them range from too serviceable to get rid of (Tannehill, Cutler, Dalton, etc) Getting that "QB for a decade plus" is winning the lottery. The Bolts still get flack from drafting Leaf, but if he didn't go 2, he would have gone 3rd, 4th, etc. It's not a science. Doing all of this to most likely get the next Ryan Tannehill is far from worth it. This is the worst time I've seen in the drought. There's no light at the end of the tunnel and a coaching staff is telling us that they can sell the farm next year and get a QB that will turn around this franchise on what will end up being a team otherwise void of talent: Gonna say my goodbyes to Kyle Williams and McCoy right now as they limp through this 20 game pre-season. I will add specifics to your post: there wasn't even 1 Tannehill quality QB in the 2002, 2007, 2010, 2013 drafts. It's also likely that Bortles, from 2014, won't turn out to be much, either, as he regressed last season. Moreover, even when there is a diamond in the draft, a team still has to find him. In 1999, the #1 pick, Tim Couch, went to Cleveland, Philadelphia took Donovan McNabb at #2, and Cinci took Akili Smith at #3. Minnesota took Daunte Culpepper at #11. McNabb was a bonafide franchise QB and Culpepper was decent for several years, Couch and Smith sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 so scary!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Trade thoughts : Yes - a fire sale. The Bills traded their best receiver & cornerback for players clearly less skilled. The team dumped assets for just two draft choices, a second & third. Who is the Bills No. 1 receiver now? Mathews, Boldin, and Jones are all projected No.2s and seen primarily as slot receivers. Is there a deep threat among the bunch? Watkins was "injury prone", true. As a matter of history or luck that's an apt description. I've always been wary of transferring that to the future or "fate" when talking about a player. It smacks a bit of magical thinking. We were repeatedly told a second operation would fix his foot issue. Why shouldn't that be true? A common talking point is the trade changes the Bills from a 8&8 team to 6&10, or from 9&7 to 7&9. It's also possible it changes them from 10&6 to 8&8. Would anyone care? All parties have said the Right Thing in sports-speak, which is expected and even admirable. The only one who pushed it was Beane. He denied dumping the team's assets in trading away their best receiver by pointing to Boldin, a 37 year old player clearly at the end of his career - a magnificent career, but still..... Taylor will probably have a good year - perhaps a very good year - but taking away his best target and primary deep threat will clearly have an effect. Look at Dalton last year, before and after the injury to Green. One wonders whether this effect is a feature or a bug. Is there anything Taylor could do this season where the Bills wouldn't package draft picks for a QB? A good year by TT would complicated a decision already on rails. Taylor was the consummate professional talking about the deal and will be so on the field. After all, he'll be playing for his next team and contract. But is it that simple? Say TT has a very good year. Say the Bills move up for a QB. Does Taylor then get cut? He'll still be relatively cheap, given the payout required to void his contract. Beane and McDermott may be reluctant to throw their new QB right into the fray, particularly given their jobs are at stake over his performance. They may chose to bring Taylor back in 2018 as a dead-man-walking. I wonder how his professionalism would hold up to that? Edited August 12, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 So...don't even attempt at drafting your guy at qb because it's scary? Not at all what I'm saying. My point is that the Bills are obviously putting themselves in a position to go up to #1 overall, and gutting the current team to do it, when the expected value of that pick is extremely low. The far better solution is to take many more, but less risky shots until you get someone that works. As an example, if the Bills knew they wanted a QB next year, which they obviously did, why not just draft Watson where they stood instead of trading back to draft a guy next year that may not be any better? If they didn't like what they saw form Watson year one, do it again next year. Everyone thought the redskins were silly for taking RGIII & Cousins, and it may have been the most savvy move they've ever made, in hindsight. You forgot Russell Wilson who went in the 3rd round in 2012. The Bills passed on him to take trade up to take TJ Graham who couldn't stay healthy and couldn't catch the ball when he was healthy! I will add specifics to your post: there wasn't even 1 Tannehill quality QB in the 2002, 2007, 2010, 2013 drafts. It's also likely that Bortles, from 2014, won't turn out to be much, either, as he regressed last season. Moreover, even when there is a diamond in the draft, a team still has to find him. In 1999, the #1 pick, Tim Couch, went to Cleveland, Philadelphia took Donovan McNabb at #2, and Cinci took Akili Smith at #3. Minnesota took Daunte Culpepper at #11. McNabb was a bonafide franchise QB and Culpepper was decent for several years, Couch and Smith sucked. Thanks for getting where I was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Not at all what I'm saying. My point is that the Bills are obviously putting themselves in a position to go up to #1 overall, and gutting the current team to do it, when the expected value of that pick is extremely low. The far better solution is to take many more, but less risky shots until you get someone that works. As an example, if the Bills knew they wanted a QB next year, which they obviously did, why not just draft Watson where they stood instead of trading back to draft a guy next year that may not be any better? If they didn't like what they saw form Watson year one, do it again next year. Everyone thought the redskins were silly for taking RGIII & Cousins, and it may have been the most savvy move they've ever made, in hindsight. Thanks for getting where I was going. I'm not sure why everyone is convinced that the bills are shooting for the 1 overall, or that you can't get a good qb outside of that spot. They have potential to trade up if needed, and if wildly lucky, can snag their guy at their position, and use the other picks to bolster the team and prepare for aging players. If you're concerned about the bills not picking the right guy, I completely get that. They have to take a shot. They're set up better this year than any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I'm not sure why everyone is convinced that the bills are shooting for the 1 overall, or that you can't get a good qb outside of that spot. They have potential to trade up if needed, and if wildly lucky, can snag their guy at their position, and use the other picks to bolster the team and prepare for aging players. If you're concerned about the bills not picking the right guy, I completely get that. They have to take a shot. They're set up better this year than any other. I'm concerned about them not picking the right guy after moving all in to do it. Coaches around the league do this constantly. They have the opinion that somehow their guys will be better than everyone else's guy and it almost never works out. In fact I really can't recall a coach & GM coming in and gutting a talented roster and coming out better on the other side. The NFL has so much parity today that it's unnecessarily. The Bills were literally 5 plays away from being a 12-4 team last year. They completely controlled their own destiny and it wasn't for a lack of talent that they didn't get the job done. Have Beane & McDermott with their 0 combined years of experience really convinced this fanbase that in order to get 5 more touchdowns per year we need to set a fire to everything we have and start all over again? I call bull ****. The simple addition of Anquan Boldin and a healthy watkins should have been all we needed to get over the hump. I dont want to wait another 4 years to find out if we have JP Losman and I sure as hell don't want to draft Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill and decide we have to hitch our Wagon to them for the next 10 years because it's as good as we can reasonably hope for. I have 0 expectations that we'll end up with a Brady, Manning, Rothlisberger, Brees etc, because you might as well play the powerball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Glad they dumped Whaley and glad the new regime isn't wasting any time cleaning up all his many mistakes. Preston Brown, Seantrel Henderson, John Miller, Nick O'Leary, and Dez Lewis... the Fab 5. The only players left on the team from his 1st 3 years as GM, what a friggin' disaster. Not too impressed with his 2016 class either, but hoping for some surprises. Culture change is GREAT and desperately needed! Onward and upward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I'm concerned about them not picking the right guy after moving all in to do it. Coaches around the league do this constantly. They have the opinion that somehow their guys will be better than everyone else's guy and it almost never works out. In fact I really can't recall a coach & GM coming in and gutting a talented roster and coming out better on the other side. The NFL has so much parity today that it's unnecessarily. The Bills were literally 5 plays away from being a 12-4 team last year. They completely controlled their own destiny and it wasn't for a lack of talent that they didn't get the job done. Have Beane & McDermott with their 0 combined years of experience really convinced this fanbase that in order to get 5 more touchdowns per year we need to set a fire to everything we have and start all over again? I call bull ****. The simple addition of Anquan Boldin and a healthy watkins should have been all we needed to get over the hump. I dont want to wait another 4 years to find out if we have JP Losman and I sure as hell don't want to draft Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill and decide we have to hitch our Wagon to them for the next 10 years because it's as good as we can reasonably hope for. I have 0 expectations that we'll end up with a Brady, Manning, Rothlisberger, Brees etc, because you might as well play the powerball. You think the bills were 5 plays away from being 12-4 last year? Come on Bull. If you don't think this regime can pick the right guy, I can understand that, but this team has to finally take its shot. On top of that, they don't need the first over all pick to do so. Just because you and another poster list qbs how haven't worked out, it doesn't mean buffalo will have the same fate. The bills have to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Dark days? Huh? Feels like the HC & GM are on the same page for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 You think the bills were 5 plays away from being 12-4 last year? Come on Bull. If you don't think this regime can pick the right guy, I can understand that, but this team has to finally take its shot. On top of that, they don't need the first over all pick to do so. Just because you and another poster list qbs how haven't worked out, it doesn't mean buffalo will have the same fate. The bills have to try. I don't *think* it, it's what happened. We lost 5 games by a touchdown or less and in each of those we had a shot to win at the very end of the game and couldn't get it done. Guys didn't get open, there were drops, picks, etc. It's even worse than that because IIRC if we beat miami and the jets the last two weeks of the season we were in. If you tell me that the team wasn't capable of winning 2-3 more games out of 5 how good of a Coach & GM can you really be? Dark days? Huh? Feels like the HC & GM are on the same page for once Maybe because they were both from the same team? We've tried this stuff before. We've been the Pittsburgh Bills, The New Jersey Bills, and now we're the Carolina Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) I don't *think* it, it's what happened. We lost 5 games by a touchdown or less and in each of those we had a shot to win at the very end of the game and couldn't get it done. Guys didn't get open, there were drops, picks, etc. It's even worse than that because IIRC if we beat miami and the jets the last two weeks of the season we were in. If you tell me that the team wasn't capable of winning 2-3 more games out of 5 how good of a Coach & GM can you really be? Maybe because they were both from the same team? We've tried this stuff before. We've been the Pittsburgh Bills, The New Jersey Bills, and now we're the Carolina Bills. this is what below average teams do. to say this team was anything close to one that was 12-4 is just delusional. could they have improved by a few games...maybe, but it's not a shoe in. at the end of it, how much worse is this year than last. it's not like watkins put up huge numbers that will be missed, (i get that he's the far better talent) and i just don't know if gains will be any different than darby. production wise it could be a lateral move. Edited August 12, 2017 by teef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 D plays better and we win 4 more games this year. O plays the same as last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 When did those actually end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 They are getting their ducks in a row to make a run at a top QB in next year's draft. Without one we are doomed to mediocrity. The plan is worth a shot, and it is too early to judge. Exactly. One of these times its gotta work right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 The Chargers could chime in about Ryan Leaf... That is a loser approach. (Chuckle!) What would be a winners approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 The Chargers could chime in about Ryan Leaf... That is a loser approach. (Chuckle!) They also got Philip rivers at the top of the draft. Facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) ......the eloquent post stating "back to the days of Dick Jauron" is lower than marrying your sister.....Jauron?...seriously?...... Edited August 12, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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