PolishDave Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Bandit, I am not slinging mud at you directly, but you said it yourself. We threw the ball less than any other team in the league. You pretty much summed up our QB. He lacks the ability to do much else other than pick up yards with his feet. 1) The offensive coordinator calls the plays - He decides whether it is going to be a run or pass play except in certain situations. It is not up to the QB unless that QB is given that responsibility - which hardly any QB's are. 2) Some coaches, because of their football philosophy, prefer to run a very pass focused offense where they call more passing plays than running plays. Some coaches, because of their football philosophy, prefer a very run focused offense. 3) Greg Roman has had the single most run oriented offensive philosophy than any other offensive coordinator in the NFL. His strength as a coach is designing a run game. In every single year he has ever been a coordinator in the NFL including his stint in San Francisco, his offenses were always run oriented. That is why his offenses were always ranked high in total running yards and low in total passing yards. Always. (Look it up) - Wait I'll do it for ya. Guess where Greg Roman's offenses ranked in number of attempts and total yards passing each year? Year # of attempts Total Passing Yards Rank 2011 31 29 2012 31 30 (Superbowl Year) They went to the Superbowl with the 30th ranked total yards passing offense. Shows you how much that stat really means = jack squat 2013 32 30 2014 29 30 2015 31 28 Wooohooo! Go Bills - By this stat the Bills had a better passing offense than the 49ers Superbowl team. 2016 32 30 Do you see a theme here? Can you see why total passing yards always ranked low? Because Roman likes to run the ball - a lot - like a lot lot Remember Rex wanting to Ground and Pound? That is why he brought in Greg Roman. Run, run, run, run, run, And then Anthony Lynn (a former Running Back) took over running Greg Roman's run oriented offense. Guess what he did? He ran, ran, ran, ran the ball a lot lot lot lot. = 30th ranked total passing yards. Get it? Notice how correlated the number of attempts are to the total yards passing when you are throwing the ball that few times? It couldn't be any clearer. If you can't see that you are blind.
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Bandit, I am not slinging mud at you directly, but you said it yourself. We threw the ball less than any other team in the league. You pretty much summed up our QB. He lacks the ability to do much else other than pick up yards with his feet. The post that I was referring to was this: 1. No, Tyrod doesn't suck. Not by any metric that you can find...but feel free to show me why with more than just your opinion. 2. Don't attribute made-up arguments to me. You've never seen me say that Tyrod hasn't looked lousy this preseason, or that it doesn't matter because it's preseason. Debate the actual point being made as opposed to simply tossing out straw men to suit your fancy. 3. It makes less than zero sense to get rid of a QB that's had a record of 15-14 and lead an offense that ranked 7th in points scored last season (save for after the EJ debacle in Week 17) because you simply don't like the guy. I don't think there's anyone on this board that believes he's great, or even capable of winning in the playoffs; he's simply the best that this team is going to do for 2017. What about the above do you disagree with? Tyrod is a below-average starting QB in the NFL, but he doesn't suck by any measure. He can extend plays with his legs, has an outstanding deep ball, and is very decisive when his first read is open (which is why his career YPA with Sammy in the lineup--8.8--is downright elite). He is most certainly limited in what he can do; that does not make Peterman the better option for this team right now. My point in this thread has always been that Tyrod's limitations and Peterman's readiness to play against starters in the NFL have zero confluence.
Royale with Cheese Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 1) The offensive coordinator calls the plays - He decides whether it is going to be a run or pass play except in certain situations. It is not up to the QB unless that QB is given that responsibility - which hardly any QB's are. 2) Some coaches, because of their football philosophy, prefer to run a very pass focused offense where they call more passing plays than running plays. Some coaches, because of their football philosophy, prefer a very run focused offense. 3) Greg Roman has had the single most run oriented offensive philosophy than any other offensive coordinator in the NFL. His strength as a coach is designing a run game. In every single year he has ever been a coordinator in the NFL including his stint in San Francisco, his offenses were always run oriented. That is why his offenses were always ranked high in total running yards and low in total passing yards. Always. (Look it up) - Wait I'll do it for ya. Guess where Greg Roman's offenses ranked in number of attempts and total yards passing each year? Year # of attempts Total Passing Yards Rank 2011 31 29 2012 31 30 (Superbowl Year) They went to the Superbowl with the 30th ranked total yards passing offense. Shows you how much that stat really means = jack squat 2013 32 30 2014 29 30 2015 31 28 Wooohooo! Go Bills - By this stat the Bills had a better passing offense than the 49ers Superbowl team. 2016 32 30 Do you see a theme here? Can you see why total passing yards always ranked low? Because Roman likes to run the ball - a lot - like a lot lot Remember Rex wanting to Ground and Pound? That is why he brought in Greg Roman. Run, run, run, run, run, And then Anthony Lynn (a former Running Back) took over running Greg Roman's run oriented offense. Guess what he did? He ran, ran, ran, ran the ball a lot lot lot lot. = 30th ranked total passing yards. Get it? Notice how correlated the number of attempts are to the total yards passing when you are throwing the ball that few times? It couldn't be any clearer. If you can't see that you are blind. Many QB's have the ability to audible. If something doesn't look right, they can change the play. Some teams will call multiple plays in the huddle and then choose which one they feel will work the best when they line up. Also Anthony Lynn, who you brought up, interviewed by WGR at the end of the season last year specifically stated they struggled in the passing game...he wished they could have passed the ball better because, in his exact words, "could have opened the offense up more". He mentioned Taylor struggled on his anticipatory routes (Dennison is stating the same thing) and throwing the ball down field...he was too safe with the ball a lot. When an offensive coordinator mentions one aspect of their game struggled and didn't allow us to "open it up"....that's pretty telling he was handcuffed in his playcalls and focused on the run because they couldn't throw. It's like you're arguing they wanted to be a one dimensional offense....
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 The theme in a passing league was flawed.
billsfan60 Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 I didn't say what chance he has, I just said at this point he's the only one on the roster with any chance to become elite. QBs don't become elite after 7 years in the league. I still think Tyrod can be a good starter but he will never be Tom Brady. Peterman could be. It's a remote chance but the only way to find out is for him to play. Everyone here should be able to agree with this. The number of people who want to dump taylor now and anoint Peterman elite without proof is infinitesimal. We all want proof, whether its eye test or stats and you won't get that till Peterman gets playing time with the ones and actual game experience. The only failure is not finding out what we have before burning draft picks on a complete unknown. No more gadget QBs. I want somebody (anybody) who possesses all the requisite skills for the position. If taylor can't elevate his game, he's done. If Peterman is only a good manager, backup. Hell, if they have to draft two a year till they hit on one I'm ok with that. Just don't half-ass it.
njbuff Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Peterman reminds me a little of Rich Gannon. One can only hope.
Royale with Cheese Posted August 25, 2017 Posted August 25, 2017 Peterman reminds me a little of Rich Gannon. One can only hope. Which Rich Gannon? The Raiders or The Vikings Rich Gannon?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 @FanRagNFL Re-ranking NFL rookie QBs after preseason Week 3. Courtesy of @WilliamsonNFL: https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/re-ranking-nfl-rookie-qbs-preseason-week-3/ #Browns #Bears #Cowboys #Bills 5. Nathan Peterman, Buffalo Bills The Bills seem to really like Peterman, and you can see why. He is never going to be a power thrower and that might always be a problem late in the season in Buffalo, but his arm strength appears better in the NFL than it was at Pitt. He is a smart player with a firm hold of the system. Peterman is a poised player who could have a career path similar to someone like Brian Hoyer. Don’t be surprised if he is starting games at the end of a lost Bills season in 2017.
WideRightRevenge Posted August 30, 2017 Author Posted August 30, 2017 Good grief, do you really not understand the point of my reply? It is tantamount to absurdity to ask what a player that has proven himself to be a mediocre NFL starter does better than a rookie 5th-round pick that has never started so much as a preseason game. That was my point. I'm sorry that I didn't make it clearer from the get-go; I assumed you'd pick up on it. If you really want to play this game, then here are 5 things Tyrod does better than Peterman: - He is a better runner; Peterman has never shown that skill - He throws an excellent deep ball; Peterman has not shown that skill in his brief preseason appearances - He is more accurate--as evidenced by both a higher comp % in this preseason, as well as by a higher comp % against NFL competition in 2016 than Peterman had playing in the ACC - He has better ball security--he had the fewest turnovers among starting QBs in the NFL last year. Peterman turned the ball over more times in 13 college games last year. - He has a better familiarity with this offense having worked with Rick Dennison; Peterman is completely new to it I played your game, so now it's your move. Name 5 things that Peterman has shown--even in the preseason against backups and 3rd stringers--that he does better than Taylor. OK ... I'll play the game as well .. preseason only Completion Percentage - Tyrod 48% ... Nate 50% .. not much difference but numerically better (but the repeated 3rd string argument offsets for some) Interceptions - Tyrod 2 / Nate 0 ... and Nate has 68 attempts vs. Tyrod's 29 % of passes for 1st Downs ... Tyrod - 13.8% / Nate 23.5% QB Rating - Tyrod 27.9 / Nate 71.4 Non Stat related ... I'll trade the long ball that Tyrod has (call it two to three plays a game) for a guy that has better touch .. he's (Nate) dropped the ball right in to Zay Jones a few times on sideline throws ... hit tight ends on seam routes ... hits the short throws on the tree and has surprised with scrambling ... my point is ..we know Tyrod's ceiling after 6 years in the league ... we're not going to do much this year (unfortunately) .. why not give Nate a shot to gain more experience ... the short term view has potential for improvement. I've repeated this in past posts .. my issue with Tyrod is lack of 4th quarter comebacks ... given our record over the last two years he's had plenty of opportunities ...let's give the kid a chance ... at worst it's the difference between 9-7 (no playoffs) and 5-11 (better draft position).
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Tyrod is a below-average starting QB in the NFL, but he doesn't suck by any measure. He can extend plays with his legs, has an outstanding deep ball, and is very decisive when his first read is open (which is why his career YPA with Sammy in the lineup--8.8--is downright elite). He is most certainly limited in what he can do; that does not make Peterman the better option for this team right now. My point in this thread has always been that Tyrod's limitations and Peterman's readiness to play against starters in the NFL have zero confluence. Maybe an average starting QB would serve us better? Also in what limited games we have seen. Peterman can scramble as we say a few games ago. 6 rushes for 43 yards. Edited August 30, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan
Doc Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 OK ... I'll play the game as well .. preseason only Completion Percentage - Tyrod 48% ... Nate 50% .. not much difference but numerically better (but the repeated 3rd string argument offsets for some) Interceptions - Tyrod 2 / Nate 0 ... and Nate has 68 attempts vs. Tyrod's 29 % of passes for 1st Downs ... Tyrod - 13.8% / Nate 23.5% QB Rating - Tyrod 27.9 / Nate 71.4 Non Stat related ... I'll trade the long ball that Tyrod has (call it two to three plays a game) for a guy that has better touch .. he's (Nate) dropped the ball right in to Zay Jones a few times on sideline throws ... hit tight ends on seam routes ... hits the short throws on the tree and has surprised with scrambling ... my point is ..we know Tyrod's ceiling after 6 years in the league ... we're not going to do much this year (unfortunately) .. why not give Nate a shot to gain more experience ... the short term view has potential for improvement. I've repeated this in past posts .. my issue with Tyrod is lack of 4th quarter comebacks ... given our record over the last two years he's had plenty of opportunities ...let's give the kid a chance ... at worst it's the difference between 9-7 (no playoffs) and 5-11 (better draft position). I'd rather see Peterman as well. On the play where Tyrod got the concussion, you can see Clay get open after making his break, but Tyrod refuses to pull the trigger, scrambles, and then gets finished-off by Judon. I have no doubt Peterman makes that throw. The problem I think is that if they start him over a healthy Tyrod, they risk losing the team. Plus they're paying Tyrod all this money. I think Tyrod will/should get the start and Peterman should come in if the team starts losing a lot of games.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 I'd rather see Peterman as well. On the play where Tyrod got the concussion, you can see Clay get open after making his break, but Tyrod refuses to pull the trigger, scrambles, and then gets finished-off by Judon. I have no doubt Peterman makes that throw. The problem I think is that if they start him over a healthy Tyrod, they risk losing the team. Plus they're paying Tyrod all this money. I think Tyrod will/should get the start and Peterman should come in if the team starts losing a lot of games. When I look at the play, I see a defender underneath (CJ Mosley) just waiting for a throw from Tyrod that he can intercept.: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000834875/article/tyrod-taylor-leaves-bills-game-with-concussion It would have been a pick six similar to the one EJ threw to Telvin Smith in the Jacksonville game in London.
BuffaloFan68 Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 OK, I originally went on record stating that Josh Rosen would be our next QB. I am now leaning more towards 1) Josh Allen or 2) Mason Rudolph with Josh Rosen now dropping to my 3rd choice. These are all behind Darnold of course but I'm pretty sure that he'll go to a bottom feeder like the Jets. Let's Go Buffalo!!!!!
GG Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 When I look at the play, I see a defender underneath (CJ Mosley) just waiting for a throw from Tyrod that he can intercept.: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000834875/article/tyrod-taylor-leaves-bills-game-with-concussion It would have been a pick six similar to the one EJ threw to Telvin Smith in the Jacksonville game in London. Are you serious? Mosley is at least 4 yards behind the play. If the pass is out at Clay's break, which it should be, there's no way that Mosley makes up that ground.
BillsFan17 Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 My only issue with Peterman is, just wait until they actually start game planning. We don't necessarily have pass catchers that will always get open, they are more possession types. The types you have to be very trusting with and more so accurate because the coverage will be tight.
HappyDays Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 When I look at the play, I see a defender underneath (CJ Mosley) just waiting for a throw from Tyrod that he can intercept.: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000834875/article/tyrod-taylor-leaves-bills-game-with-concussion It would have been a pick six similar to the one EJ threw to Telvin Smith in the Jacksonville game in London. Look at the first gif in this article: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/28/16211916/nathan-peterman-rookie-quarterback-buffalo-bills-video-analysis-gif I'll bet if that's Tyrod and he doesn't throw the ball, you would think that it's a pick waiting to happen. Peterman is able to create a window and thread the ball to Jones. I like Tyrod, I think he can be very successful in the right offense. But I don't think he makes that throw.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Look at the first gif in this article: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/28/16211916/nathan-peterman-rookie-quarterback-buffalo-bills-video-analysis-gif I'll bet if that's Tyrod and he doesn't throw the ball, you would think that it's a pick waiting to happen. Peterman is able to create a window and thread the ball to Jones. I like Tyrod, I think he can be very successful in the right offense. But I don't think he makes that throw. That has definitely been a problem for him.
aristocrat Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 OK, I originally went on record stating that Josh Rosen would be our next QB. I am now leaning more towards 1) Josh Allen or 2) Mason Rudolph with Josh Rosen now dropping to my 3rd choice. These are all behind Darnold of course but I'm pretty sure that he'll go to a bottom feeder like the Jets. Let's Go Buffalo!!!!! dahnold doesn't pass the eye test for me. i just don't like his throwing motion. lot of love cause of that last game from people
starrymessenger Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Peterman reminds me a little of Rich Gannon. One can only hope. A healthy Chad Pennington is his ceiling imo. Don't know if he will get there. DK has really looked good at times in Cleveland. Has shown accuracy and has thrown with anticipation not to mention athleticism/arm strength.
Doc Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 When I look at the play, I see a defender underneath (CJ Mosley) just waiting for a throw from Tyrod that he can intercept.: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000834875/article/tyrod-taylor-leaves-bills-game-with-concussion It would have been a pick six similar to the one EJ threw to Telvin Smith in the Jacksonville game in London. Are you serious? Mosley is at least 4 yards behind the play. If the pass is out at Clay's break, which it should be, there's no way that Mosley makes up that ground. Yeah I don't think Mosley has a shot at the ball at all, assuming the ball is thrown after Clay starts his break. There is a defender behind Clay but a well-thrown/timed ball is at worst is a PBU. But more importantly, the QB stays healthy. A healthy Chad Pennington is his ceiling imo. Don't know if he will get there. DK has really looked good at times in Cleveland. Has shown accuracy and has thrown with anticipation not to mention athleticism/arm strength. His last game he was 6-18 for 93 yards and an INT. I don't see it. But time will tell.
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