Nate Peterman Love .. anyone vs. 2018 QB draft??

[Kirby Jackson]

IMO I have. I have no idea what he can do so until I see him play over the seasons can I say if he's only a backup or not.

Who criticized him? I saw Gunner say that he had a 7th round grade on him but Gunner scouts these guys thouroughly. That wasn't a shot that was just his analysis from the pre-draft process and what he saw on tape.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

There's too many pages to look through to find the ones that have said he'd never amount to much more than a backup.

 

Imo that is being a little unreasonable at this time.

We need TT to succeed and for Nate to supplant Yates.

[Kirby Jackson]

There's too many pages to look through to find the ones that have said he'd never amount to much more than a backup.

 

Imo that is being a little unreasonable at this time.

No one knows what anyone will become but that's not a knock on him to say that he may be a long-term #2. A lot of people feel that way. He has a lot of the attributes and limitations that the good backups have. Hoyer and Moore (whose names have both appeared in this thread) have combined for like 20 years of service (and are still active). It's not insulting to think that a 5th round QB could have a similar career to those guys.

 

I think that Peterman goes right by Yates. He is just more capable. He offers a lot more. There really isn't anything that Yates does better than him.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Mat68]

Assuming he sees the feild for a significant time, he would have to perform like Brady, Wilson, and Prescott to avoid a first rd QB selection.

[GunnerBill]

You're right, they're really not alike. I don't know to me it is clear, even just reading draft profiles, that Dak Prescott was a better prospect than Paxton Lynch. I will never understand the "big, strong arm, but no mechanics" QBs that get taken in the 1st round. I scout accuracy above all else because it can't be taught. The unpredictable X factor is always can they read NFL defenses so I look for pro system QBs. Those two factors led me right to Peterman and I was really excited when we took him.

 

Well I hated Paxton Lynch as well but I think the "pro style" thing is the most overrated scouting cliche in modern NFL scouting. Cam Newton's offense wasn't "pro style", Derek Carr wasn't running a true "pro style" scheme either. While people like to argue that the college game and the pro game are drifting further apart in offensive styles I think something quite different. I feel like whilst the schemes might be different the concepts are actually converging. When I was scouting Trubisky and Watson for this year's draft there was a knock on both that they were not in "pro style" systems but there were plenty of concepts within those offenses that are NFL staples... they are almost always run from the pistol or the gun and receivers are generally running specified routes (whereas in the NFL they will have more routes with reads in them..... "IF" the defender does X break the route off at this point etc) but they are trying to attack defenses in similar ways.

 

I'm not as convinced as you seem to be on Peterman's accuracy either. It was spotty on tape. I feel like "accurate and smart" are the first two adjectives that get applied to limited Quarterbacks without top level arms. Can he have a career as a backup? Sure. He has some Fitz about him to me when I watch him. I remain in the camp that would be stunned if he became a true NFL starting Quarterback.

 

Do I hope I am wrong? I do for as long as he is on the Bills. But I don't revisit what I thought watching guys just because we draft them. I think Blokes was even more down on Peterman than me...... think he had him as an UDFA.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

No one knows what anyone will become but that's not a knock on him to say that he may be a long-term #2. A lot of people feel that way. He has a lot of the attributes and limitations that the good backups have. Hoyer and Moore (whose names have both appeared in this thread) have combined for like 20 years of service (and are still active). It's not insulting to think that a 5th round QB could have a similar career to those guys.

 

I think that Peterman goes right by Yates. He is just more capable. He offers a lot more. There really isn't anything that Yates does better than him.

Kirby, I have had 2 or 3 people tell me he'd never be anything but a backup.

 

I've stated - to say as much is premature. Not rooting for a new Bills player to be a #1 at some point again is baffling to me.

 

I know all draft picks are a gamble. That doesn't mean we talk poorly of them all. For what it was in the 4th QTR I was mildly impressed after reading the negativity about him.

There are a few others who have said the same thing.

[North Buffalo]

Bagging on him? I bagged on Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel because they were not NFL caliber. My assessment that he's a career backup isn't bagging on him. He could prove me wrong and I'd be happy about it.

Ok say its your opinion, (not assessment)... sounds like your a professional... , bagging him as not a starter. yes you are. just use the words IMO before you say anything or something like based on I saw and think... and PS... I disagree on Manzel from a talent standpoint... from a checkup above the neck NFW was his psychotic mind able to handle the NFL.

[Kirby Jackson]

Kirby, I have had 2 or 3 people tell me he'd never be anything but a backup.

 

I've stated - to say as much is premature. Not rooting for a new Bills player to be a #1 at some point again is baffling to me.

 

I know all draft picks are a gamble. That doesn't mean we talk poorly of them all. For what it was in the 4th QTR I was mildly impressed after reading the negativity about him.

There are a few others who have said the same thing.

I'm of the school that I will be shocked if he is anything more than a backup. I've seen a good bit of him. My mind didn't suddenly change because he played well for a quarter. I was much more impressed by the game that he played against Clemson. There are physical limitations though that lead me to believe that. If he proves me wrong I would be thrilled. All that we want is the Bills to win.

 

I think Gunner hit the nail on the head earlier though. He and Blokes (along with Bandit) probably do the most thourough work when it comes to draft prospects. He said that he wasn't going to change his mind on what he saw because the Bills drafted a guy. Blokes HATED him, Gunner didn't think much of him and I don't remember where Bandit was. Those guys have been right more than they've been wrong. It's not meant to be insulting to say that "he won't be more than a backup." It's an assessment based on the skills and limitations that he's displayed from college to now.

[26CornerBlitz]

Ok say its your opinion, (not assessment)... sounds like your a professional... , bagging him as not a starter. yes you are. just use the words IMO before you say anything or something like based on I saw and think... and PS... I disagree on Manzel from a talent standpoint... from a checkup above the neck NFW was his psychotic mind able to handle the NFL.

If you think Manzel is an NFL caliber talent, that's all I need to know you have no idea what it takes to succeed beyond the College level as a QB because he doesn't have it from either a physical or mental standpoint.

 

You don't have to accept my assessments of Peterman, Manzel, or anyone, but frankly I don't care.

Edited August 15, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[26CornerBlitz]

@viccarucci

McDermott on Peterman: "He's done a good job. Did a nice job in game. Has handled additional reps well."

[North Buffalo]

If you think Manzel is an NFL caliber talent, that's all I need to know you have no idea what it takes to succeed beyond the College level as a QB because he doesn't have it from either a physical or mental standpoint.

You don't have to accept my assessments of Peterman, Manzel, or anyone, but frankly I don't care.

Took the bait on Manzel, you obviously dont know how to check your arrogance. You bait and switch too much and repeat things as if we disagree on on them when in fact that is not so. Either you have a reading comprehension problem... doubt it because you are to good a writer, or your myopically wed to your opinion so much that the slightest lack of fawning sends you into a tizzy. No wonder you couldn't hang on Sabrespace.. updates were great, but hockey evals... not so much.

[26CornerBlitz]

Took the bait on Manzel, you obviously dont know how to check your arrogance. You bait and switch too much and repeat things as if we disagree on on them when in fact that is not so. Either you have a reading comprehension problem... doubt it because you are to good a writer, or your myopically wed to your opinion so much that the slightest lack of fawning sends you into a tizzy. No wonder you couldn't hang on Sabrespace.. updates were great, but hockey evals... not so much.

 

Tizzy. You're the one who got your panties in a bunch with the with the silly semantics of assessment vs. opinion. What the heck are you talking about? Bait and switch? You said we disagreed on Manziel from a talent perspective and I repeated what I've said about him many times.

 

Talk about bait and switch, you're all over the map now with Sabrespace. Thanks for the laugh and get back to me when you figure out the difference between your and you're.

Edited August 15, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mat68]

Nothing against him as player but if Peterman doesnt see significant time you would be foolish to pass on a more talented player. Look Cousins sat behind RG3 for a few year. Eventually he won the spot. No differant here. If peterman is that good he will make it on the feild and perform.

[thebandit27]

Nothing against him as player but if Peterman doesnt see significant time you would be foolish to pass on a more talented player. Look Cousins sat behind RG3 for a few year. Eventually he won the spot. No differant here. If peterman is that good he will make it on the feild and perform.

 

Agreed--except that I'll go ahead and eliminate the part about him seeing significant time. Even if he does, you still would be crazy to pass on a R1 QB in 2018.

 

Don't rely on someone that is unproven at the position, and short of him taking the league by storm and putting together a playoff win or two as a starter in his rookie season, he will be unproven at the NFL level entering 2018.

 

Always have a contingency plan for a franchise QB if you can.

[26CornerBlitz]

Nothing against him as player but if Peterman doesnt see significant time you would be foolish to pass on a more talented player. Look Cousins sat behind RG3 for a few year. Eventually he won the spot. No differant here. If peterman is that good he will make it on the feild and perform.

 

It's imperative that they finally identify and draft a franchise level QB in 2018 irrespective of Peterman being around.

[North Buffalo]

Well I hated Paxton Lynch as well but I think the "pro style" thing is the most overrated scouting cliche in modern NFL scouting. Cam Newton's offense wasn't "pro style", Derek Carr wasn't running a true "pro style" scheme either. While people like to argue that the college game and the pro game are drifting further apart in offensive styles I think something quite different. I feel like whilst the schemes might be different the concepts are actually converging. When I was scouting Trubisky and Watson for this year's draft there was a knock on both that they were not in "pro style" systems but there were plenty of concepts within those offenses that are NFL staples... they are almost always run from the pistol or the gun and receivers are generally running specified routes (whereas in the NFL they will have more routes with reads in them..... "IF" the defender does X break the route off at this point etc) but they are trying to attack defenses in similar ways.

 

I'm not as convinced as you seem to be on Peterman's accuracy either. It was spotty on tape. I feel like "accurate and smart" are the first two adjectives that get applied to limited Quarterbacks without top level arms. Can he have a career as a backup? Sure. He has some Fitz about him to me when I watch him. I remain in the camp that would be stunned if he became a true NFL starting Quarterback.

 

Do I hope I am wrong? I do for as long as he is on the Bills. But I don't revisit what I thought watching guys just because we draft them. I think Blokes was even more down on Peterman than me...... think he had him as an UDFA.

 

. See and this is an obviously educated observer that shares his observations as opinion, not fact and gives reasons to back them up 26. You could learn something from Gunner... I did. Though I think Peterman has a chance to develop and arm strength can be vastly improved with proper training. Agreed smarts and accuracy is over used. Want to see himin higher level competition. He seems to scan the field well and read and look off defenses... whether he can develop strength and accuracy under NFL pressure remains to be seen and is a big if as with so many of these young QBs

[HappyDays]

 

Well I hated Paxton Lynch as well but I think the "pro style" thing is the most overrated scouting cliche in modern NFL scouting. Cam Newton's offense wasn't "pro style", Derek Carr wasn't running a true "pro style" scheme either. While people like to argue that the college game and the pro game are drifting further apart in offensive styles I think something quite different. I feel like whilst the schemes might be different the concepts are actually converging. When I was scouting Trubisky and Watson for this year's draft there was a knock on both that they were not in "pro style" systems but there were plenty of concepts within those offenses that are NFL staples... they are almost always run from the pistol or the gun and receivers are generally running specified routes (whereas in the NFL they will have more routes with reads in them..... "IF" the defender does X break the route off at this point etc) but they are trying to attack defenses in similar ways.

 

I'm not as convinced as you seem to be on Peterman's accuracy either. It was spotty on tape. I feel like "accurate and smart" are the first two adjectives that get applied to limited Quarterbacks without top level arms. Can he have a career as a backup? Sure. He has some Fitz about him to me when I watch him. I remain in the camp that would be stunned if he became a true NFL starting Quarterback.

 

Do I hope I am wrong? I do for as long as he is on the Bills. But I don't revisit what I thought watching guys just because we draft them. I think Blokes was even more down on Peterman than me...... think he had him as an UDFA.

Good post, thanks.

 

Pro system isn't the first thing I look for. Trubisky played in a spread but he's deadly accurate and reads the whole field. He was easily the best prospect in the draft. As opposed to someone like Mahomes who not only played in a spread system but also needs to revamp his mechanics.

 

But I think the bigger cliche than "pro system QB" is "drafting QBs is a crapshoot." I don't think that's true. You can at least whittle down the available prospects. It's easy. You avoid prospects whose scouting profiles read like this:

 

Strengths:

Dual-Threat Quarterback

Powerful arm

Excellent mobility

Size & strength

Escapability

Experienced

Quick release

 

Weaknesses:

Not a natural passer

Decision-making

Field vision

Struggles to work through progressions

Runs to quickly

Spotty accuracy

Can panic at times

Didn't play as well against good defenses

Strengths:

Strong arm

Can make all the throws

Great size; well-built height/weight

Capable of brilliant throws into tight windows

Good mobility

Athletic

Can throw a beautiful deep ball

Throws well on the run

Flashes pocket presence

When comfortable, sees the field well

Can be tough to bring down

Toughness

Has played hurt

Hand size (10.25 inches)

Capable of picking up yards with his feet

 

Weaknesses:

Raw

Streaky as a passer

Inconsistent field vision

Has to quicken the process

Can be slow to work through his progressions

Needs lots of development for a pro-style offense

Will need to learn working under center

Questions about off-the-field maturity, professionalism

Those are EJ Manuel's and Paxton Lynch's draft profiles. Cardale Jones is the epitome of this type of QB and I'm struggling to think of a time when one has worked out. This year it's Deshone Kizer. Everyone likes him based on one preseason game but his mechanics and spotty accuracy will catch up to him. Pat Mahomes is a weird one because he has a big arm and he's even generally accurate but his mechanics are a mess, and he's not as accurate on the deep ball as his tape would have you believe. He's one of the few "strong, big arm" QBs I could see actually making it but he's more likely to become Jay Cutler than Brett Favre IMO.

 

And I don't agree when people say "1st round QBs are more likely to succeed." In recent years that hasn't really been true, because GMs keep taking the same crap prospects with "big arms" or guys that win the national championship as if that even remotely matters.

 

The success rate seems to still be about 50% for the top 2 picks, and everything else in the 1st round is well below 50%. I remember looking into this, and I found Derek Carr was the only QB taken between pick 3 and 35 that has any sort of success, since Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005. But these QBs keep getting taken. How can someone say it's a crapshoot when the statistics are right there? Don't waste mid-1st round picks on strong arms or "proven winners." Find decent accuracy and decent mechanics, that's the pool of QBs you should draft from. That's where the real crapshoot is, it's near impossible to tell which QBs from that pool will rise to the top. But you can literally just read draft profiles of some QBs and know they're not going to make it.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Let's let the preseaspn and season play out, no need to rush judgement..

[North Buffalo]

Tizzy. You're the one who got your panties in a bunch with the with the silly semantics of assessment vs. opinion. What the heck are you talking about? Bait and switch? You said we disagreed on Manziel from a talent perspective and I repeated what I've said about him many times.

 

Talk about bait and switch, you're all over the map now with Sabrespace. Thanks for the laugh and get back to me when you figure out the difference between your and you're.

Hard when I'm using an iphone and yes I know the difference, again you're a good writer, and Manzel had some Flutie like talent imo (NFL possibly capable if developed properly imo) but to dissmiss talent v his stupidity is another story. Again I said imo, not fact. The previous posters know how present arguments. Learn how and you will be a much better talent. You have arm strength, not sure though if you can analyze a defense, but you have potential. PS, I play hockey at a much lower level, but know the game and have been watching football since the Juice came into the league, so I have seen a thing or too and know QB is the hardest position to evaluate and a lot depends on the coach to figure out that talent and best use it. Again state things as opinion, point out flaws you see, not as someone else does. I think too often repeat others' opinions. Edited August 15, 2017 by North Buffalo

[Big Gun]

Sad sad sad. WTH did Peterman do to make so many people think he's so bad?

 

Every Bills fan should be rooting for this guy to succeed.

 

If you guys think this is a call out. Maybe it is.

 

No one is claiming he's a superstar. Man I start to wonder if the TT faithful are feeling threatened.

Absolutely, it is said by the professionals in here this is TT make or break year, his 7th in the league, yet NP has been written off as a career backup, maybe, after 2 quarters of his first ever NFL game. It's damn comical!

Edited August 15, 2017 by old school