OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) He shouldn't get any as it's going to be hard enough as it is for Tyrod to develop chemistry with his all new WR corps. ....and that is the nature of THIS business.....injuries, retirements, trades, cuts, incoming draftees ALWAYS change the landscape.....if he fails, do we get to check the box "DIVA PASS" because he couldn't perform in this high paying Big Boyz League due to a bumpy road?.....either he IS or he is NOT...... Edited August 14, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
HappyDays Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 There's a reason he was a 5th round pick Yeah it's because NFL front offices don't know how to scout QBs. It's why players like EJ Manuel and Paxton Lynch go in the 1st, while players like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins fall to the 4th. If GMs knew how to scout quarterbacks, ones like Peterman would never fall to the 5th. Frankly we're lucky he's on our team because we took Matt Milano before him in the same round... I had him pegged as a high 3rd rounder before the draft FWIW.
GunnerBill Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Yeah it's because NFL front offices don't know how to scout QBs. It's why players like EJ Manuel and Paxton Lynch go in the 1st, while players like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins fall to the 4th. If GMs knew how to scout quarterbacks, ones like Peterman would never fall to the 5th. Frankly we're lucky he's on our team because we took Matt Milano before him in the same round... I had him pegged as a high 3rd rounder before the draft FWIW. I had him as a 7th rounder and I was the guy with a 2nd on Dak Prescott. I don't think they are anything alike.
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 No chance, the Bills aren't getting all of this draft capital to build around a guy that they passed on like 5 times in the draft. That should tell you how confident they are in him becoming the guy. Brady got passed on 6 times. I'm not saying he's Brady, but let's see how he pans out before shitting on him.
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Yeah it's because NFL front offices don't know how to scout QBs. It's why players like EJ Manuel and Paxton Lynch go in the 1st, while players like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins fall to the 4th. If GMs knew how to scout quarterbacks, ones like Peterman would never fall to the 5th. Frankly we're lucky he's on our team because we took Matt Milano before him in the same round... I had him pegged as a high 3rd rounder before the draft FWIW. How is it that you thought so highly of Peterman before the draft but only gave him a high R3 grade?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Brady got passed on 6 times. I'm not saying he's Brady, but let's see how he pans out before shitting on him.Read my previous post because the point is being missed
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) All I am reading today is the draft capital to get a QB in next year's draft .... is it just me or did no one like what Nate showed on Thursday? First drive as a pro ... drove down the field and scored ... in the fourth scrambled for good 1st downs .. and then hit Taiwan Jones perfectly on 4th down on the 5 yard line .. but he turned his head to run and dropped the ball ...likely could of been game tying score. This kid went to Clemson last year and beat #1 in a shootout against D. Watson ... I like what I saw and yes only one game and yes against 2nd/3rd string .. but certainly better than what I saw from Yates vs. the Vikes ... but given the lack of comments and I am island? What I have seen in the recent past is that teams have the best success when they go "all in" for a QB and try every option to get a good one on their roster - as Seattle did the year they signed Flynn as an expensive FA and drafted Wilson. As Philly did when they traded for Bradford while they had Foles and Sanchez, then traded up to draft Wentz. As Washington did when they drafted both RGIII and Cousins. What I am against is the previous Buffalo pattern of acquire a guy (Rob Johnson. Or Trent Edwards. Or Fitzpatrick, Or EJM). Give him 2-3 more or less unchallenged years to see if he's "the Man"; decide he's not, throw him back in the ocean, and try again. Acquiring a really good QB is a low percentage bet these days, even at the top of the 1st round, so this one-at-a-time approach is like a statistical lock on being without one for 17 years. So even if Peterson plays and looks good, I want to see us draft a quality QB. Let them challenge each other. Edited August 14, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
Perk71 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 I really believe Peterman will be the Bills franchise QB in the future...IMO of course.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Somehow my point got lost here. Tyrod Taylor will be the QB this year barring an injury or a trade. Peterman may end up as the number 2. If Tyrod plays this year and they decide to move on do you really believe that they will be turning the reigns over to Peterman with little to no NFL experience? They have loaded up draft assets for a loaded QB draft class. They aren't going to pass up on those guys unless they see Peterman play extremely well over a multiple game stretch. He won't have an opportunity. It has nothing to do with draft position and everything to do with opportunity. The point about passing on him 5 times was in reference to the level of confidence that they had in him. They would need a substantial change of heart to be comfortable enough to say, "we are going to move on from Tyrod and not draft a QB and hand the keys to Peterman." That doesn't mean that they don't like him. It just means that it will be tough to believe that they like him enough to skip over the opportunity in the 2018 draft for a guy with no starts that they drafted in the 5th round the prior year. But if Peterman goes on to have a strong preseason and also impresses in practice through out the season, then staff is going to still have a lot of optimism in the kid. They drafted him for a reason, wasn't just a gimme throw away draft pick. But lets address your valid point of opportunity... Tyrod is either going to cease the job and make his case as the starter for the foreseeable future or he is not. If he does, then we likely wont be making some blockbuster QB trade next year and likely pick another one up that falls to us with one of our picks in the first couple rounds as insurance. If Tyrod doesn't ascend this year, he wont finish the season as the starter if Peterman impresses in Preseason and Practice during the season. They will give the kid some starts once TT has shown enough to clearly not be the future and/or we are out of playoff contention. So, if Peterman shows anything he will have plenty of time to impress the staff and quite possibly get time on the field either from injury or due to circumstances regarding Taylors season or falling out of playoff race.
DefenseWins Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 Peterman has this entire season to impress the Bills coaching staff and GM... Don't forget that Kirk Cousins was drafted in the 4th rd of the 2012 NFL draft behind Robert Griffin III... Was that a "wasted pick" too? You need two competent QBs in this day and age... Let's not draw too many inferences off of one pre-season game where he looked better than Yates while playing with and against other 2nd and 3rd stringers... Having two good young QB's on your roster is certainly NOT a bad thing... When Dalton went down the Bengals had McCarron to step in and hold down the fort... I shouldn't have to remind my fellow Bills fans considering that Reich stepped in when Kelly was injured and led the miracle comeback against Houston... Bottom line right now is you keep stockpiling draft picks for 2018 and watch Peterman's development and work habits as the season goes along... Also, keep in mind that when the regular season starts the opposing defenses will be playing much more stringent and exotic defenses as opposed to bland pre-season defenses...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 OMG stop it. There's a reason he was a 5th round pick and looking good against players who aren't making a roster doesn't do anything for me! There was a reason Brady was a 6th round pick, Warner was undrafted, Cousins was a 4th rounder, etc etc. There are always "reasons", but then there is this pesky thing called reality where its impossible to tell the future. Draft grades are nothing other than educated GUESSES...and they are WRONG a LOT more than they are right. Go ask our own Kyle Williams what he thinks of your assessment of a 5th round pick...given he was one himself. I am no where near ready to say Peterman is going to even be a legit backup in the NFL, but its completely stupid to make the determination based on the round he was drafted in.
HappyDays Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 How is it that you thought so highly of Peterman before the draft but only gave him a high R3 grade? Without the benefit of hindsight I would have been fine with the Bills taking Peterman with their 2nd round pick but would have thought it was a little early. Maybe that gives it a little better perspective. Whatever grade you have on a QB, take him a round earlier. And I wasn't that high on him, I did have him as my #2 (behind Trubisky) but thought it was a weak class overall anyways. I wouldn't have taken any QB other than Trubisky in the 1st this year. I had him as a 7th rounder and I was the guy with a 2nd on Dak Prescott. I don't think they are anything alike. You're right, they're really not alike. I don't know to me it is clear, even just reading draft profiles, that Dak Prescott was a better prospect than Paxton Lynch. I will never understand the "big, strong arm, but no mechanics" QBs that get taken in the 1st round. I scout accuracy above all else because it can't be taught. The unpredictable X factor is always can they read NFL defenses so I look for pro system QBs. Those two factors led me right to Peterman and I was really excited when we took him.
Herb62 Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 There was a reason Brady was a 6th round pick, Warner was undrafted, Cousins was a 4th rounder, etc etc. There are always "reasons", but then there is this pesky thing called reality where its impossible to tell the future. Draft grades are nothing other than educated GUESSES...and they are WRONG a LOT more than they are right. Go ask our own Kyle Williams what he thinks of your assessment of a 5th round pick...given he was one himself. I am no where near ready to say Peterman is going to even be a legit backup in the NFL, but its completely stupid to make the determination based on the round he was drafted in. Great retort here, here, common since, that rear commodity these days
JustWinPlease Posted August 14, 2017 Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Like I said if eyes were already towards 2018 before 2017 draft in regards to the QB position and with Taylor, Jones, and Yates on the roster why draft Peterman at all? In the 5th round and he won't amount to anything like you say, why did they draft him? Unless they had their eye on him the whole time and wanted him earlier but were diligent, smart and lucky that they got him in the 5th. Guys slip in the draft all the time, every year and contrary to your belief I think Peterman does start at some point this year or there was really no point to drafting him. I haven't read through all of this yet, but I'll bite on this... They drafted Peterman in the 5th round because at that point in the draft he was, in their mind, the best value left on their board. As someone else alluded to, the backup QB is important, and without Frank Reich we don't beat the Oilers in the comeback. They probably see him as a safe backup, with potential to be something more. But you don't pass on a draft class that has upwards of FIVE potential franchise QB's, because you drafted a 5th round QB. For every Tom Brady, Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott...there's also Trent Edwards, Cardale Jones, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, Tyler Wilson, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallett, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage, Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, Garrett Grayson, Bryce Petty, Ricky Stanzi, TJ Yates, Nathan Enderle, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton...and on, and on, and on. But if you look at the top-4 teams last year, they had Tom Brady (the exception, not the rule). Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger...the best QB ever and three first round draft picks. If the Bills have a chance to land a legitimate franchise QB, they have to take that chance. If Nathan Peterman grows into a good QB, then they could trade him for a 1st round pick at some point down the line. It'll always be easier to find a Nathan Peterman, than it will be to find a Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Marcus Mariota, or Jameis Winston. We could potentially have our Frank Reich, now I want our Jim Kelly...we could potentially make the playoffs once in a while with Peterman, but I want to be Super Bowl contenders for years to come. We've waited too long for this, we've rolled the dice on too many questionable QB's...everyone should want to see our team bring in one of these consensus first round QB's in the 2018 draft. (Everyone in our front office either came from an organization that has their franchise QB, or an organization that struggled to find a franchise QB...Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott (Carolina), Joe Schoen (Miami), Brian Gaine (Houston), Malik Boyd (Arizona), Terrance Gray (Minnesota), Lake Dawson (Cleveland)...these guys most definitely understand that in order to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL, you need that franchise QB running your offense.) PS. Wilson was knocked down the draft boards due to his size. Prescott was knocked down due to his size, the fact that his team took a step back during his final year, and because of a DUI. Cousins was knocked down due to questions about his arm talent and being a "game-manager," but he was also drafted the same year as Griffin and was expected to be the long-term backup. (All three would've gone higher, if not for these questions and concerns.) Edited August 14, 2017 by JustWinPlease
Kirby Jackson Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 But if Peterman goes on to have a strong preseason and also impresses in practice through out the season, then staff is going to still have a lot of optimism in the kid. They drafted him for a reason, wasn't just a gimme throw away draft pick. But lets address your valid point of opportunity... Tyrod is either going to cease the job and make his case as the starter for the foreseeable future or he is not. If he does, then we likely wont be making some blockbuster QB trade next year and likely pick another one up that falls to us with one of our picks in the first couple rounds as insurance. If Tyrod doesn't ascend this year, he wont finish the season as the starter if Peterman impresses in Preseason and Practice during the season. They will give the kid some starts once TT has shown enough to clearly not be the future and/or we are out of playoff contention. So, if Peterman shows anything he will have plenty of time to impress the staff and quite possibly get time on the field either from injury or due to circumstances regarding Taylors season or falling out of playoff race. Again there are a lot of assumptions here but that is the one and only case where it's possible. If Tyrod relinquishes the job and Peterman plays the last month or so (twice against NE) and looks really good. These guys are not going to enter 2018 with Peterman atop the depth chart if he is an unknown. If they use 2 firsts (as an example) to secure a QB in 2018 who do you think the guy that they are going to play will be? Their tenure will be determined by whomever they bring in to play QB. They know this. Do you think that they are comfortable putting their careers on the line for a guy that they chose after Matt Milano? I don't. If they took Peterman where they took Dawkins I may buy them entering 2018 with him. 2018 will be Tyrod or a 1st round pick (and Tyrod will have to look really good for them to keep him). All of the signs from the last week are pointing at the draft.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Sad sad sad. WTH did Peterman do to make so many people think he's so bad? Every Bills fan should be rooting for this guy to succeed. If you guys think this is a call out. Maybe it is. No one is claiming he's a superstar. Man I start to wonder if the TT faithful are feeling threatened.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Sad sad sad. WTH did Peterman do to make so many people think he's so bad? Every Bills fan should be rooting for this guy to succeed. If you guys think this is a call out. Maybe it is. No one is claiming he's a superstar. Man I start to wonder if the TT faithful are feeling threatened. No need to be passive aggressive. I haven't seen anyone criticize Peterman in this thread. I think that most agree he played well last week. Some seem hesitant to give too much credit because he was playing against 3's & 4's. I don't think that anyone thinks that's he's pushing for the starting job. The Bills certainly don't feel that way. It would be great though if he could pass that scrub Yates. We'd be better off using that roster spot elsewhere (but that's a different conversation).
Beast Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Yeah it's because NFL front offices don't know how to scout QBs. It's why players like EJ Manuel and Paxton Lynch go in the 1st, while players like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins fall to the 4th. If GMs knew how to scout quarterbacks, ones like Peterman would never fall to the 5th. Frankly we're lucky he's on our team because we took Matt Milano before him in the same round... I had him pegged as a high 3rd rounder before the draft FWIW. I think what you say is a fallacy. There are busts in the first round at every position. QB isn't exclusive....just as there are great players found in every round.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 I think what you say is a fallacy. There are busts in the first round at every position. QB isn't exclusive....just as there are great players found in every round.Yep, and a higher percentage of players picked in the first make it than picked in the 2nd, the 3rd and so on. People always point to the exceptions as "it's possible" but the percentages are that the guys that go earlier are more likely to make it. With the advancement of scouting, analytics and technology the "bust percentage" is lower than it's probably ever been.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 No need to be passive aggressive. I haven't seen anyone criticize Peterman in this thread. I think that most agree he played well last week. Some seem hesitant to give too much credit because he was playing against 3's & 4's. I don't think that anyone thinks that's he's pushing for the starting job. The Bills certainly don't feel that way. It would be great though if he could pass that scrub Yates. We'd be better off using that roster spot elsewhere (but that's a different conversation).IMO I have. I have no idea what he can do so until I see him play over the seasons can I say if he's only a backup or not.
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