Are you going to sing the same tune if...

[SoCal Deek]

I'm fine with all of it.

 

If you'd told me they'd be going into the upcoming season with a WR corp of Boldin, Mathews and a young Zay Jones...I'd say sounds good to me.

 

And if you told me we'd have in essence THREE first round picks next year I'd be thrilled! While I've got nothing against Sammy, the departed Front Office was clueless to use Tep first round picks on him. OBD just pushed the reset button!

[outsidethebox]

And my opinion is Sammy is great player who has proven time and again he is fragile. There is always something wrong with him,

 

Again, the biggest mistake from Beane and McD was not exercising the option if this trade was being contemplated--but noone was going to pony up a #1 for Sammy given his case history even with the second year. The Bills could have gotten a better player than EJ Gaines (yuck) but we got what will likely be another top 10 second rounder to go with the one they will "win" on the field this fall. There are 4 top 40 picks in this teams future. That gets you the number one draft pick with maybe a top 40 pick to spare if you want it without mortgaging the future.

 

Sammy was talented but even you, Alpha and others have to admit just a little that you were worried about when the next injury was going to occur. If you don't your arguments are as unrealistic as you claim those that support the trades are...

This is football, any player can get injured at any time. Who here is a Dr that knows Sammy's foot isn't healed?

[Chandler#81]

Just gonna toss this in here..

 

"For several reasons, a Jones fracture may not unite. The diaphyseal bone (zone II), where the fracture occurs, is an area of potentially poor blood supply, existing in a watershed area between two blood supplies. This may compromise healing. In addition, there are various tendons, including the peroneus brevis and fibularis tertius, and two small muscles attached to the bone. These may pull the fracture apart and prevent healing."..

 

Somebody stepped on Sammy's foot after the 1st surgery. We know what happened then..

[JoeF]

This is football, any player can get injured at any time. Who here is a Dr that knows Sammy's foot isn't healed?

I am not a doctor, but doctors look at case history....and ignore it at their peril...

 

I posted this in the shout box -- but it sounds like you firmly believe Sammy was going to put us on his back and limp us to the playoffs on a bad foot, broken ribs with the national anthem, God Bless America and the Shout song playing in the background. His last year with the Bills.

Edited August 12, 2017 by JoeF

[Scott7975]

Why is everyone throwing around $20 million like that was some sort of realistic number. He probably would have been a lot closer to 10. For all the pissingand moaning that goes on around Buffalo for being a farm team for the rest of the league, I don't know how you let this slide. We just developed a top WR for another team to build a dynasty around.

You are calling him a top WR and don't think he will want top WR money? Have you heard Sammy talk about money? The franchise tag for a WR is currently almost 16 mil. The top paid receiver currently makes 17 mil. You aren't signing Sammy for 10 mil a year. No, it probably wont be 20 either but it will probably be between 15 and 20.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Scott7975

[Samwell Tarly]

I liked Sammy but I'd rather pay an elite quarterback. How many elite wrs have carried a team to the super bowl? None I can think of. Elite qb's do it almost every year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I am not a doctor, but doctors look at case history....and ignore it at their peril...

 

I posted this in the shout box -- but it sounds like you firmly believe Sammy was going to put us on his back and limp us to the playoffs on a bad foot, broken ribs with the national anthem, God Bless America and the Shout song playing in the background. His last year with the Bills.

So much this it isn't funny

[billsfan1959]

I see a lot of people celebrating the Sammy trade. I don't care what anyones personal opinion is on Sammy, when he has been healthy he has produced in the top 10 of WRs. He's 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC despite starting his career with EJ/Orton fiasco, and then catching passes from a QB the you same people say can't throw.

 

So my question is, if Sammy is past the injuries and firmly establishes himself as one of the best WR's in football (which he has shown himself to be in his healthy stretches), are you still going to be praising this move?

 

You see, I have seen this story before...everyone celebrating a move and the decision makers that made it happen...then as soon as it doesn't goes as planned, the same people flip flop and say how stupid it was as if they were always against it and start demanding blood form the FO.

 

Sadly, with Sammy, his only real issue was his lingering foot injury. The thing people MISS big time on that injury, is that it is difficult and timely to fully recover from because there is not much you can do along the way, it just takes a lot of time. Sammy and the medical staff pressed too early last year and aggravated it again and there was nothing to be done other than wait it out. However, with this injury it is almost always stronger once it heals than it was before it was hurt in the first place and is not a career lingering scenario.

 

I can't predict if Sammy will stay healthy, but given his RARE talent level and the fact the foot injury seems to be behind him, I think we got very little back based on what he has the potential to be in the NFL. We downgraded to get a 2nd round pick in next years draft. And considering a bunch of people want to cut our recent 2nd round pick before he has played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, I don't see how that future 2nd is very exciting given Sammy's potential to be special.

 

 

We have ALL seen this story before - from both perspectives: Those who praise a move and then hate it when it doesn't work out, and those who hate a move and then praise it when it does work out. Of course, the overwhelming majority of fans WILL change their minds based on the short and long term results of the move. It's just basic human nature. I personally do not like to see an elite talent (albeit one that has not consistently been on the field producing at an elite level) leave our team. However, for the first time in a long time, I actually feel there is a FO in place that has a real vision regarding building and sustaining a playoff caliber team. I am not privy to all of the variables that went into their decision, so, I don't feel have enough information to adequately critique the trade - and I also do not want to respond from a purely visceral perspective. At this point, the trade is made and I do feel the FO believed it was in the team's best interests to make it. From my perspective, it is only fair to give them a chance to do what they feel allows them the best chance of realizing their vision. I cannot control or predict the future. I can only wait and see.

[BuffaloBill]

There was zero chance he was signing here. As soon as the 5th year was dropped, it was over.

Terrible draft mistake by Whaley and now it's officially over. What if that extra 2nd is the difference in getting a qb....nobody knows

^^^^^^ This .. this whole gamble hinges on whether the Bills get a true franchise QB. Until they do we circle round and round 8-8 seasons.....

[Just in Atlanta]

Wow, thanks for the enlightenment. You also build teams around once-in-a-lifetime talents.

 

There's no guarantee we pick up our quarterback simply because we're getting an extra second round pick. There's no guarantee that extra second round pick will even get us a franchise player at all. We're trading a sure thing for potential down the road. And we already had two first round picks.

 

You build offenses around QBs not receivers.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I see this so often these days. The OP glosses over the main point of why something occurred. Sammy was traded because the Bills didn't feel comfortable giving a $80 million dollar deal to a guy who can't consistently stay healthy. End of story. If we are going to play 'what if's'...

What if the Bills instead of the Pats had hired Belichik and drafted Brady and Gronk and etc etc...

 

My biggest issue with Sammy is I don't think he has either the same threshold for pain or desire for the game as someone like Julio Jones has.

[CanadianFan]

I whole heartedly agree with you Alphadog.

 

The ones who are celebrating this trade, will pay for it with this season and next.

 

Let me add a further point why this trade shouldn't have been made. All the signs point to this regime trading their picks for a #1 QB next season. Who is he going to throw to next year? Michael Irvin was there before Troy got there. Dez was there before Dak got drafted. Harrison was there before Peyton was drafted. All of those partnerships helped the young QBs to be successful early and often. Who's next year's rookie QB going to throw to? A butterfingers Matthews? To an aging Boldin in traffic so his passes will get picked off? That's a script for ruining a young QB.

[Crusher]

I see a lot of people celebrating the Sammy trade. I don't care what anyones personal opinion is on Sammy, when he has been healthy he has produced in the top 10 of WRs. He's 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC despite starting his career with EJ/Orton fiasco, and then catching passes from a QB the you same people say can't throw.

 

So my question is, if Sammy is past the injuries and firmly establishes himself as one of the best WR's in football (which he has shown himself to be in his healthy stretches), are you still going to be praising this move?

 

You see, I have seen this story before...everyone celebrating a move and the decision makers that made it happen...then as soon as it doesn't goes as planned, the same people flip flop and say how stupid it was as if they were always against it and start demanding blood form the FO.

 

Sadly, with Sammy, his only real issue was his lingering foot injury. The thing people MISS big time on that injury, is that it is difficult and timely to fully recover from because there is not much you can do along the way, it just takes a lot of time. Sammy and the medical staff pressed too early last year and aggravated it again and there was nothing to be done other than wait it out. However, with this injury it is almost always stronger once it heals than it was before it was hurt in the first place and is not a career lingering scenario.

 

I can't predict if Sammy will stay healthy, but given his RARE talent level and the fact the foot injury seems to be behind him, I think we got very little back based on what he has the potential to be in the NFL. We downgraded to get a 2nd round pick in next years draft. And considering a bunch of people want to cut our recent 2nd round pick before he has played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, I don't see how that future 2nd is very exciting given Sammy's potential to be special.

 

 

Great post.

 

I am firmly in the camp that thinks dealing Watkins was a big mistake...especially for the return.

 

He now finally appears to be past his foot issues, and may now emerge as the next Julio Jones. We've seen it when healthy, so it's only a question if he gets hurt, but this is football and it sometimes happens. The Falcons and Cowboys didn't give up on Julio and Dez and they are ballin' out now.

 

If Sammy stays on the field...this trade goes down as a colossal screwup by the new regime.

[Nuncha]

 

Really? Over the period 2014-2016, Watkins ranks:

 

Receptions: 38th

Yards: 28th

TDs: 23rd

YPG: 24th

Catch %: 83rd

YPT: 19th

YPC: 5th

 

So he's a nice player, but kinda hard to see how that coalesces into a top 10 WRs. Unless of course you cherry pick one stat and fail to mention any of the others.....like you're doing repeatedly.

This^^^^ Potential doesn't help win games in the NFL...production does.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Azucho98

[Alphadawg7]

We have ALL seen this story before - from both perspectives: Those who praise a move and then hate it when it doesn't work out, and those who hate a move and then praise it when it does work out. Of course, the overwhelming majority of fans WILL change their minds based on the short and long term results of the move. It's just basic human nature. I personally do not like to see an elite talent (albeit one that has not consistently been on the field producing at an elite level) leave our team. However, for the first time in a long time, I actually feel there is a FO in place that has a real vision regarding building and sustaining a playoff caliber team. I am not privy to all of the variables that went into their decision, so, I don't feel have enough information to adequately critique the trade - and I also do not want to respond from a purely visceral perspective. At this point, the trade is made and I do feel the FO believed it was in the team's best interests to make it. From my perspective, it is only fair to give them a chance to do what they feel allows them the best chance of realizing their vision. I cannot control or predict the future. I can only wait and see.

 

You did say something that is somewhat of a silver lining...and I agree with it. As much as I hate losing a talent like Sammy, I do like our FO and Staff right now and how they are going out and being decisive and aggressive in what they want to do. For instance, they didn't just trade Sammy, they went out and got another WR to add to the roster at the same time.

 

So, yes I do agree that what the FO is doing is encouraging, I just really wish it didn't involve Sammy. But, what you wont see me do is blast the FO for doing it. In all my posts about my opinion on losing Sammy, not once did I attack the FO because I understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Doesn't mean I would have done the same thing, but I also don't feel like the FO is being stupid or reckless, they clearly have a plan and I can support them taking action on the plan even if I really didn't want Sammy to be one of the pieces that left.

 

As far as flip flopping goes, while I agree with what you said, it wasn't really what I was referencing. Its one thing to disagree or agree with something, then as things play-out in a way that shows your initial thoughts and reactions were incorrect and then now agreeing with the opposite stance. It is a whole other thing to flip flop as if you had that stance the whole time and then demand the blood of those who were involved for being so stupid. And those are the things I have seen here a LOT.

Great post.

 

I am firmly in the camp that thinks dealing Watkins was a big mistake...especially for the return.

 

He now finally appears to be past his foot issues, and may now emerge as the next Julio Jones. We've seen it when healthy, so it's only a question if he gets hurt, but this is football and it sometimes happens. The Falcons and Cowboys didn't give up on Julio and Dez and they are ballin' out now.

 

If Sammy stays on the field...this trade goes down as a colossal screwup by the new regime.

 

Dez and Julio are good examples of guys who dealt with some injuries but went on to be beasts. Same with other positions like Stafford or even going back older Fred Taylor.

 

I am not against the FO, and have been very encouraged so far by them and McD, however, I really don't like losing Sammy for a mediocre DB and a 2nd round pick. I hear Beane mentioned sign-ability a lot in the PC, so if they felt they had a low percentage chance to keep him, then getting something of value makes some sense.

 

Personally, I still feel the team is headed in a good direction, and I do love having all the assets we do next year, but I feel we just lost a very special talent who is still so young and finally got his health back. So thats a bummer no matter how you look at it.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I see a lot of people celebrating the Sammy trade. I don't care what anyones personal opinion is on Sammy, when he has been healthy he has produced in the top 10 of WRs. He's 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC despite starting his career with EJ/Orton fiasco, and then catching passes from a QB the you same people say can't throw.

 

So my question is, if Sammy is past the injuries and firmly establishes himself as one of the best WR's in football (which he has shown himself to be in his healthy stretches), are you still going to be praising this move?

 

You see, I have seen this story before...everyone celebrating a move and the decision makers that made it happen...then as soon as it doesn't goes as planned, the same people flip flop and say how stupid it was as if they were always against it and start demanding blood form the FO.

 

Sadly, with Sammy, his only real issue was his lingering foot injury. The thing people MISS big time on that injury, is that it is difficult and timely to fully recover from because there is not much you can do along the way, it just takes a lot of time. Sammy and the medical staff pressed too early last year and aggravated it again and there was nothing to be done other than wait it out. However, with this injury it is almost always stronger once it heals than it was before it was hurt in the first place and is not a career lingering scenario.

 

I can't predict if Sammy will stay healthy, but given his RARE talent level and the fact the foot injury seems to be behind him, I think we got very little back based on what he has the potential to be in the NFL. We downgraded to get a 2nd round pick in next years draft. And considering a bunch of people want to cut our recent 2nd round pick before he has played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, I don't see how that future 2nd is very exciting given Sammy's potential to be special.

 

 

Sammo sammo works for you. It hasn't worked here for many years. I'll go with the approach of a new regime with new thinking. Yes, it may not work. But sammo sammo hasn't either.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I see a lot of people celebrating the Sammy trade. I don't care what anyones personal opinion is on Sammy, when he has been healthy he has produced in the top 10 of WRs. He's 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC despite starting his career with EJ/Orton fiasco, and then catching passes from a QB the you same people say can't throw.

 

So my question is, if Sammy is past the injuries and firmly establishes himself as one of the best WR's in football (which he has shown himself to be in his healthy stretches), are you still going to be praising this move?

 

You see, I have seen this story before...everyone celebrating a move and the decision makers that made it happen...then as soon as it doesn't goes as planned, the same people flip flop and say how stupid it was as if they were always against it and start demanding blood form the FO.

 

Sadly, with Sammy, his only real issue was his lingering foot injury. The thing people MISS big time on that injury, is that it is difficult and timely to fully recover from because there is not much you can do along the way, it just takes a lot of time. Sammy and the medical staff pressed too early last year and aggravated it again and there was nothing to be done other than wait it out. However, with this injury it is almost always stronger once it heals than it was before it was hurt in the first place and is not a career lingering scenario.

 

I can't predict if Sammy will stay healthy, but given his RARE talent level and the fact the foot injury seems to be behind him, I think we got very little back based on what he has the potential to be in the NFL. We downgraded to get a 2nd round pick in next years draft. And considering a bunch of people want to cut our recent 2nd round pick before he has played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, I don't see how that future 2nd is very exciting given Sammy's potential to be special.

 

 

The answer is, what Sammy does is now irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what the bills offense does this season and what comes of what I hope is a top 40 pick from the Rams.

[Jauronimo]

 

If Sammy turns out to be a consistent stud and we don't end up getting a franchise QB or at the very least have a phenomenal draft next year then yes I will concede this point.

 

But let me ask you a question, if Sammy is hampered with injuries and has another 65 catch 1000 yard season with 8 T.D's and the Bills end up drafting lights out or getting a Franchise QB, will you not concede that it was a good trade?

Why? Is there something special about the 2nd rounder we got from LA at this point? We already had the draft resources to make a big draft day move and theres no guarantee that drafting the QB of the future will involve a blockbuster draft day trade.

 

I don't see how Sammy and this hypothetical franchise QB draft are related at this point. We will judge the trade this year with the Chiefs where we traded out of the 10 spot (where KC selected Mahomes) in return for a first rounder. This hypothetical draft day move where we pick our QB of the future has much more to do with that extra first rounder rather than another second.

[JoeF]

Case 1: In a predraft blockbuster trade, the St. Louis Rams have agreed in principle to send the second overall pick in this year's draft to the Washington Redskins for three first-round draft picks and a second-round pick.

 

Case 2: Tennessee Titans receive: 2016 1st (15), 2016 2nd (43), 2016 2nd (45), 2016 3rd (76), 2017 1st, 2017 3rd
Los Angeles Rams receive: 2016 1st (1), 2016 4th (113), 2016 6th (177)

 

Case 3: Cleveland Browns receive: 2016 1st (8), 2016 3rd (77), 2016 4th (100), 2017 1st, 2018 2nd
Philadelphia Eagles receive: 2016 1st (2), 2017 4th

 

Yep just two first rounders will do it...every time. Bills have the picks to move from wherever they finish into the top 5 and likely the top 3. Second and thirds are key as one can see from the above packages....

Edited August 12, 2017 by JoeF

[TPS]

Beane and McD will be judged on two outcomes occurring simultaneously...the future of the Bills compared to Sammy's career. If the Bills, within the next two years, become a perennial playoff team, then whatever Sammy does will become irrelevant in the big picture. If the Bills continue to flounder, however, and Sammy's career takes off, it won't be pretty.

This is really the essence of the trade, IF. Beanie could end up looking like a genius or a dolt.

I simply think, if Sammy did have a great year, they weren't ready to pay $15 million to a WR without a franchise QB.