Are you going to sing the same tune if...

[BringBackOrton]

 

Year October 2015 was like less than 2 years ago ... so kind of rounding up on your "years ago"

 

I knew it was more than 1 year so I went for it.

[Bangarang]

As long as we get a franchise QB with all of these draft picks then I'll be perfectly fine if Sammy has a great career in LA

Edited August 12, 2017 by Bangarang

[Scott7975]

 

Did he really say that?

 

Yes he did. I think it was last year, but he took it down shortly afterwards.

 

edit guess it was two years ago.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Scott7975

[NewEra]

 

Really? Over the period 2014-2016, Watkins ranks:

 

Receptions: 38th

Yards: 28th

TDs: 23rd

YPG: 24th

Catch %: 83rd

YPT: 19th

YPC: 5th

 

So he's a nice player, but kinda hard to see how that coalesces into a top 10 WRs. Unless of course you cherry pick one stat and fail to mention any of the others.....like you're doing repeatedly.

You bolded part of his sentence. "When healthy" was the part you left out. When healthy,....he is one of the best.....and has had one of the lesser QBs in the league throwing to him all the while. He is a special player.....when healthy

[Scott7975]

As long as we get a franchise QB with all of these draft picks then I'll be perfectly fine if Sammy has a great career in LA

 

Same. I loved the idea of having Sammy. Did not like the trade to get him but still liked having him. I don't think we were resigning him. He will probably want close to 20mil a season. You don't pay a WR 20 mil per season when your team either has a mediocre QB or a rookie still learning the ropes. They can draft another guy that will maybe not have the raw talent but can produce similar numbers on rookie deal.

 

This may end up bad for us, but I believe it only ends up bad if they don't end up with a top QB prospect out of it.

[Rico]

Today, the Bills gained the ammunition to obtain a franchise QB for the 2018 season. Either an established vet like Kirk Cousins or one of the 18 draft class best QBs will be on this team at this time next year. They gained the capability to obtain this QB with next year's draft assets only...not mortgaging future draft classes.

 

The Watkins trade was a dumb trade for a WR. Idiotic when it happened and idotic today. The new regime's mistake was to not do this after committing to the option year for Sammy but that is a minor mistake compared to the idiocy of trading away a future #1 for a WR in 2014.

 

This year was not a playoff year -- no way, no how...next year won't be either with the first year of likely a rookie QB, but I can't hate the course the Bills set today. Its what rebuilding teams should do...

Good post.

 

It would've been great if Sammy stayed healthy and lit things up here, but that just didn't happen. Oh well...

[Rocky Landing]

If Sammy becomes one of the top recievers in the game and we become a playoff team I'd be happy. The outcome of this trade all depends on what we get from the 2018 draft. If it improves our team, it was a success. If we continue to linger in mediocrity then it is a failure.

Yeah, that second round pick should make all the difference.

[Alphadawg7]

Today, the Bills gained the ammunition to obtain a franchise QB for the 2018 season.

 

Wrong. On draft day we obtained that ammunition. And if we ONLY trade Darby, then we have 2 first, a 2nd and 2 thirds next year...thats is SUBSTANTIALLY enough ammunition. So this nonsense that Sammy trade gave us the ammo is a completely false narrative.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You bolded part of his sentence. "When healthy" was the part you left out. When healthy,....he is one of the best.....and has had one of the lesser QBs in the league throwing to him all the while. He is a special player.....when healthy

 

IF healthy

[Alphadawg7]

 

IF healthy

 

He IS healthy. You are banking on an injury that hasn't happened all because one really hard injury to recover from lingered into 2016 after our terrible training staff allowed him to push to fast last year before it was truly ready.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

He IS healthy. You are banking on an injury that hasn't happened all because one really hard injury to recover from lingered into 2016 after our terrible training staff allowed him to push to fast last year before it was truly ready.

 

He's also had ribs, hammy, and a number other injuries. How many games you figure he's played 100% healthy?

 

I'd put the over under at 9.5

[BadLandsMeanie]

 

1. We did NOT need to make this trade to get a franchise QB prospect next year, its unrelated. We already had 2 firsts, plus our own 2nd and 3rds...MORE than enough ammo to pull off a big trade if we needed to.

 

2. I will absolutely answer it...look at my avatar...I put that on draft night. I loved the Sammy trade at the time. First, we had EJ, who while unspectacular as a rookie, also was not too bad either. He looked like a promising young prospect, and we had literally no weapons for the kid. So after bringing in a young QB, we really needed playmakers on this team desperately. We made a trade to get a 4th back, so all it cost us was the next years first and for a talent as rare as him, I was all for it.

 

Going further, the trade proved to be a valid value based on TALENT. Yes, Sammy had a disappointing 2 year stretch battling his foot injury and a rib injury from a big hit, but once healthy he was one of the most productive WR's in the NFL and is 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC. And considering you feel we need a franchise QB, you clearly are not a fan of TT, so that just further sings Watkins praises that he was able to produce at such a high level in a run first offense and a QB you don't think much of in TT, and his first year was in a PATHETIC offense and QB combo of Orton and EJ.

 

So what do you think Watkins is gonna do as a healthy WR catching passes from a capable passing QB? And with the ammo we have next year, if TT falters, we could have added that big arm QB without having to trade Sammy and would have had an Elite WR for that young QB to grow with.

 

One, thats a false statement. We could have tagged or franchised him and potentially kept him or got more for him.

 

And we already had 2 firsts, a 2nd, and 2 thirds next year...we had MORE than enough ammo to get a QB if we need one without having to trade Sammy.

I think they used 2 firsts and fourth round pick to get a wide receiver when they didn't have a quarterback. I think that is stupid.

[KD in CA]

You bolded part of his sentence. "When healthy" was the part you left out. When healthy,....he is one of the best.....and has had one of the lesser QBs in the league throwing to him all the while. He is a special player.....when healthy

 

So your argument is his stats are not that great because he can't stay healthy? Ok.

 

And actually, he ranked 33d in starts during that stretch, so that would be the baseline for looking at his various stats. That he performed only marginally better than that figure in most major categories demonstrates that he is far from a 'top 10' receiver.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I see a lot of people celebrating the Sammy trade. I don't care what anyones personal opinion is on Sammy, when he has been healthy he has produced in the top 10 of WRs. He's 4th in the NFL since entering the league in YPC despite starting his career with EJ/Orton fiasco, and then catching passes from a QB the you same people say can't throw.

 

So my question is, if Sammy is past the injuries and firmly establishes himself as one of the best WR's in football (which he has shown himself to be in his healthy stretches), are you still going to be praising this move?

 

You see, I have seen this story before...everyone celebrating a move and the decision makers that made it happen...then as soon as it doesn't goes as planned, the same people flip flop and say how stupid it was as if they were always against it and start demanding blood form the FO.

 

Sadly, with Sammy, his only real issue was his lingering foot injury. The thing people MISS big time on that injury, is that it is difficult and timely to fully recover from because there is not much you can do along the way, it just takes a lot of time. Sammy and the medical staff pressed too early last year and aggravated it again and there was nothing to be done other than wait it out. However, with this injury it is almost always stronger once it heals than it was before it was hurt in the first place and is not a career lingering scenario.

 

I can't predict if Sammy will stay healthy, but given his RARE talent level and the fact the foot injury seems to be behind him, I think we got very little back based on what he has the potential to be in the NFL. We downgraded to get a 2nd round pick in next years draft. And considering a bunch of people want to cut our recent 2nd round pick before he has played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, I don't see how that future 2nd is very exciting given Sammy's potential to be special.

 

 

 

Ok you through out a "I don't care what you say" at me so I'm throwing my own "I don't care what you say" at you, Watkins hasn't been a top 10 WR so far, he's never been healthy in any season fully and he shouldn't even have been our pick, it should have been Khalil Mack by a mile.

[Alphadawg7]

 

So your argument is his stats are not that great because he can't stay healthy? Ok.

 

And actually, he ranked 33d in starts during that stretch, so that would be the baseline for looking at his various stats. That he performed only marginally better than that figure in most major categories demonstrates that he is far from a 'top 10' receiver.

 

His starts in 2016 were not him being healthy. His first healthy game was week 15 when he put up 150+yards and a TD. In the 9 games he was healthy in 2015 he was one of most productive WR's in NFL.

 

Since entering the league, he is 4th in the NFL in YPC...foruth in the whole NFL...palying with EJ, Orton, and Tyrod...FOURTH in YPC. You know, playing with QB's you all say can't throw downfield...yet his is FOURTH in NFL in YPC.

 

The kid is an elite talent when healthy, and if you can't see that when he plays you must not know what football is.

[Fadingpain]

1) Sammy was gone anyway

 

2) Sammy's full potential was never going to be realized HERE as long as we don't have a QB who can deliver the ball to him.

 

3) For those suggesting the return value on the trade was low, I would suggest the value was probably about right; if Sammy's value was substantially greater, we would have gotten more, most likely.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Ok you through out a "I don't care what you say" at me so I'm throwing my own "I don't care what you say" at you, Watkins hasn't been a top 10 WR so far, he's never been healthy in any season fully and he shouldn't even have been our pick, it should have been Khalil Mack by a mile.

 

Really? 4th in NFL in YPC since entering the league...hmmmm suggests otherwise. And he has spent his time with Orton, EJ, and Tyrod and dealt with the worst OC in history of NFL his rookie year, and the Rex crap show for 2 years.

 

Yet...in 2015, he was among most productive in the NFL in his 9 healthy starts. In 2016 he was a shell of himself until he finally got semi-healthy in late in the season and in one of his only starts he could play close to himself, he put up a 150+yard game and a TD.

 

So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR is both visually and factually false as both the tape and stats illustrate it.

1) Sammy was gone anyway

 

2) Sammy's full potential was never going to be realized HERE as long as we don't have a QB who can deliver the ball to him.

 

3) For those suggesting the return value on the trade was low, I would suggest the value was probably about right; if Sammy's value was substantially greater, we would have gotten more, most likely.

 

The notion is its low today because if healthy he would have gotten more later. We could have tagged him for compensation, traded him, franchised him, etc later. Or even just resigned him. He even said himself, he wasn't upset about not picking up the 5th year and he knows he has to go earn it.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Really? 4th in NFL in YPC since entering the league...hmmmm suggests otherwise. And he has spent his time with Orton, EJ, and Tyrod and dealt with the worst OC in history of NFL his rookie year, and the Rex crap show for 2 years.

 

Yet...in 2015, he was among most productive in the NFL in his 9 healthy starts. In 2016 he was a shell of himself until he finally got semi-healthy in late in the season and in one of his only starts he could play close to himself, he put up a 150+yard game and a TD.

 

So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR is both visually and factually false as both the tape and stats illustrate it.

 

The notion is its low today because if healthy he would have gotten more later. We could have tagged him for compensation, traded him, franchised him, etc later. Or even just resigned him. He even said himself, he wasn't upset about not picking up the 5th year and he knows he has to go earn it.

 

 

so lets see...9 healthy games 2015, half a season. 1 healthy game 2016. I sense a trend.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I think this goes back to scheme and players to fit into a system. This is what makes NE so good. Yeah, I know they have Brady, but they also have an offensive system that rotates players in without losing a step and Brady rarely stretches the field. So it will be interesting to see what he does with Brandon Cooks.

 

On to the Bills. After watching the game, it seems to me that the staff feels they do not have the pass blocking to extend long plays and are going to rely on roll outs and hitting players in the seams. I think that's why they felt comfortable having two slot receivers in Boldin and Matthews come in. As much as Sammy has some elite skills, he is not going over the middle, he's not making the contested catches and fighting for the ball or taking hits.

 

I think they are trying to retain Taylor to use his feet to buy some time, then unload the dump off or hit players in the seams keeping defenses off track with his ability to run. DeMarco and Tolbert are both very capable receivers in this type of system. So are Boldin, Matthews, Clay and Shady. J Will and Zay are being taught to find the open field and they have some good coaching to get them there.

 

For the few shots we are take down the field to keep a defense honest go to Philly Brown, Streater and maybe Zay Jones plus Maybe Holmes.

Bolden, Logan Thomas and Holmes are also red zone targets.

 

In the overall scheme, I love Sammy but don't think his production warrants the contract he wants, or his skill set being complimentary to the team philosophy of offense Dennison wants to build. I feel it's going to be a run, stretch and pop into the seams kind of offense. Hopefully Tyrod picks up on it and plays lights out. If not, Peterman may be ready next year ready to compete with our 1st Rd QB.

[Just in Atlanta]

Watkins is a rare talent. Someone you build an offense around. We squandered it for a chance to make a good extra pick next April.