Go on record regarding the trades

[Turk71]

The Rams have a good defense and alot of weapons on offense...including maybe the best RB in football.

 

Another silly statement by you

Wait a minute, so the best rb in football averaged 3.2 ypc and scored 6 tds last year and other people are making 'silly statements'???

[BillsFan4]

I cannot wrap my head around the fact that so many folks around here support these moves. I just don't understand it. I wonder if Buffalo sports fans and residents are so beaten down that they just assume that good players don't want to be in Buffalo, so it's just a matter of time before the good ones leave and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" if you even hint at being unhappy.

 

Or maybe Bills fans have simply forgotten what it's like to be competitive on Sundays and have focused all of their energies and fantasies on the offseason and NFL Draft, so that they'd rather gear up for a super exciting draft weekend than have to watch their team fall short year after year during the actual season.

 

Mark my words: the Bills are going to spend years - YEARS - trying to acquire another talent the likes of Sammy. To trade away an explosive, game-altering, defense-intimidating player in the prime of his career, after all that has been invested in marketing him and healing him and integrating him - it's just lunacy to me.

 

And wait until you see all of the 4-yard rollout passes to fullbacks and plodding lead-handed receivers this season - folks are gonna start to turn on this trade, I firmly believe. This is going to be a boring, slow, easily-defended offense designed to limit mistakes.

 

This is Jauron Ball 2.0. They're building a roster full of saints and soldiers, that's great, but where is the TALENT?

 

 

One of the least-efficient WRs in the league.

Now I'm not saying i love the trade or whatever but I'm willing to give it time and see what McD/Beane are able to build here.

 

Here's what it ultimately boils down to for me -

 

The Bills are my team. They will be no matter who the owner/coach/GM is. I have absolutely ZERO control over the moves they make. So I can choose to try and rationalize the moves, try and figure out what they were thinking and make sense of them to myself. Or I can freak out. Since I have zero control and I prefer not to freak out over something I can't control, I rationalize the moves and do my best to see the vision of the team and try to support it.

 

I am the type that prefers to try and go with the flow. These things are going to happen whether I want them to or not and it doesn't matter if I like the moves. They happened. So I choose to try and look for the best of the situation.

 

It has nothing to do with being beaten down by losing or any of that stuff you mentioned.

[GoBills808]

Now I'm not saying i love the trade or whatever but I'm willing to give it time and see what McD/Beane are able to build here.

 

Here's what it ultimately boils down to for me -

 

The Bills are my team. They will be no matter who the owner/coach/GM is. I have absolutely ZERO control over the moves they make. So I can choose to try and rationalize the moves, try and figure out what they were thinking and make sense of them to myself. Or I can freak out. Since I have zero control and I prefer not to freak out over something I can't control, I rationalize the moves and do my best to see the vision of the team and try to support it.

 

I am the type that prefers to try and go with the flow. These things are going to happen whether I want them to or not and it doesn't matter if I like the moves. They happened. So I choose to try and look for the best of the situation.

 

It has nothing to do with being beaten down by losing or any of that stuff you mentioned.

I don't think anyone loved losing Watkins. Sometimes when it's time it's time. So whatever, deal with it. The staff's trying to build a winner.

 

I hated seeing Jackson go, but that's life.

[BillsFan4]

Exactly. The cap isn't 80 mil anymore, for those not paying attention. And save the talk about SB winning teams. They generally have those cap issues you know, AFTER they actually win a SB and everyone wants to get paid.

So it kind of sounds like you agree that it's silly that the Bills have these cap issues without even sniffing the playoffs then?

 

And that it's also silly to pay all these guys tons of money before they've really done anything in the league (like Sammy) and put the Bills in cap jail again after just barely stating to dig out of it this offseason?

 

Lol. I know this is not what you were saying, but that's kind of what I took from your post...

 

 

There is no reason that the Bills should have been so up against the cap the last couple years under Rex/Whaley. They went on a spending spree Rex's first year and used up just about all the Bills available cap space IIRC.

 

The Bills absolutely did have cap issues last season and entering this offseason, especially with the number of free agent players they had. That's part of the reason they had to cut good players and let other good players walk. IIRC they had like $19M to sign something like 26 free agents. It's part of the reason why they had to rely so heavily on bringing in cheap players and UDFA's.

 

I'm sure they could have found a way to make Sammy's numbers work, but not without having to make more painful moves elsewhere across the roster, hurting the quality of multiple other positions across the team.

Thing is, whether we like it or not, we are nowhere near a Sammy Watkins away from being a competitive playoff team. They have massive needs across most of the entire roster and not a ton of cap space to work with ATM. The cap is getting better because of moves made this offseason, though.

[26CornerBlitz]

@mikerodak

Jim Kelly said Sunday that Tyrod Taylor losing Sammy Watkins is "like me losing Andre Reed," but urges Bills fans to "stay on the wagon."

[zonabb]

Don't know, not in the prediction game here. I liked Sammy's potential and don't like losing him. Does the loss make them worse, we'll see. I would bet in the end, in a few years, the net gain from more draft picks, along with the production of the two players in return assuming they stay, is greater than Sammy and Darby alone. This is a net gain question. Simply do the two players plus the two picks collectively make the team better than they would be? Can't predict that but it seems likely.

[mjt328]

As a whole, I didn't like the moves.

 

I understand the concept of "rebuilding" the roster. But it makes very little sense to trade away some of your youngest star players during a rebuild. It makes more sense to shop players like LeSean McCoy, Kyle Williams or Ritchie Incognito. If a rebuild is successful, a front office should plan on being competitive within 2-3 years. It makes more sense to shop guys that won't be around, or may not be effective that far down the road. I fail to see how Sammy Watkins and Ronald Darby fit that mold.

 

The value we got in return for Watkins was not nearly enough. If that pick (probably late 30s or early 40s) is used on a replacement, the chances we get someone with Watkins' talent is very low. If our plan is to package the pick in a draft move next year, I don't think that extra 2nd Rounder is going to be the vital piece that makes it happen or kills it. The Eagles/Jordan Matthews trade was comparable value. This one was a rip-off, which only looks promising to fans using the "Madden mentality" of overvaluing draft picks. It also makes the decision to decline his 5th Year Option look extra foolish, because we probably would have gotten a better trade offer with an extra contract year involved.

 

If the Bills were worried about re-signing Watkins, then I fail to see the value in obtaining two players in the last years of their contract. Matthews is probably looking at a deal similar or higher than Robert Woods, who was ridiculously overvalued in free agency. Smart teams let players like this walk. So the Bills are left in a lose-lose situation.

 

People keep talking about positioning for a Quarterback. I guess that makes some sense. But there are still WAY TOO MANY unknown factors that could completely destroy this plan. We still don't know which prospects will be declaring. Not a single 2018 top QB prospect is a senior. There is a great chance Sam Darnold stays in school. We don't know what scouts will actually think of these prospects by April. Maybe some of these top guys crash and burn over the next 12 months like Matt Barkley or Jake Locker. Not to mention, we don't know what draft positioning will look like. If the Jets, Browns, 49ers are sitting in the Top 3 spots, what are the chances they would trade with us? What if the Chargers, Jags, Rams, Redskins, etc., etc. are sitting there? I like having ammo, but that extra 2nd and 3rd Rounder is going to be pennies in the grand-scheme of things.

 

I have a feeling that in 12 months, Sammy Watkins will be a Pro-Bowler, Jordan Matthews will be on his third team, the Bills still won't have a premier QB prospect, and our front office will be trying to hype a massive new draft class full of unproven rookies as the saviors of our franchise.

Edited August 13, 2017 by mjt328

[Augie]

Now I'm not saying i love the trade or whatever but I'm willing to give it time and see what McD/Beane are able to build here.

Here's what it ultimately boils down to for me -

The Bills are my team. They will be no matter who the owner/coach/GM is. I have absolutely ZERO control over the moves they make. So I can choose to try and rationalize the moves, try and figure out what they were thinking and make sense of them to myself. Or I can freak out. Since I have zero control and I prefer not to freak out over something I can't control, I rationalize the moves and do my best to see the vision of the team and try to support it.

I am the type that prefers to try and go with the flow. These things are going to happen whether I want them to or not and it doesn't matter if I like the moves. They happened. So I choose to try and look for the best of the situation.

It has nothing to do with being beaten down by losing or any of that stuff you mentioned.

There you go! I chose not to make myself crazy over this. I'll wait and see how it turns out, because that's all I can do. My son is here at the moment, and he's freaking out for the both of us, and it's hard to stomach. It's hard for me to counter his arguments, because I get it. Keep your best players. He thinks the Eagles were fools to let Shady go too.

[Marv's Neighbor]

No need to "go om record," they didn't ask me! Watkins did seem to have a "glass" foot, and Darby wasn't that consistent, so as Chris Rock said about OJ, "he did it, but I understand!"

[Section242]

Selling out the future? Did I miss something?? Did the Rams give up a 1st in 2018 and a future 1st in 2019?

 

They gave up a 2nd round pick for a starting WR with elite talent. The chances of that second round pick turning into Watkins are even slimmer than your thoughts on Goffs potential.

 

Plan ahead and recoup? So don't sign any of the players you drafted?

 

You know what else Bills fans have been asking for for years? Talented players and retaining said talented players.

 

 

Exactly. Draft picks are valuable until the draft. I wouldn't disagree that the Bills need depth players. I would say they traded up for Jones and Dawkins, so what are they doing?

 

It's easier to say nobody wants to be here and sell low to justify them leaving.

 

I'd rather the Bills go full out tank then doing what they're doing.

[stinky finger]

Agree. We burned the first bridge by not taking the fifth year. Then we get rid of him for questionable value in return. If they hit home runs in the 2018 Draft I'm sure I'll feel better but right now this sucks. I'm also convinced Sammy will be a Patriot next year.

 

I'm sorry. I must've missed how the talks went between Bills brass and Sammy re: 5th year. You have the inside? Spill it.

 

And no, no way Sammy goes to Pats. They won't pay want he'll want. Poor value and they don't need him.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I'm sorry. I must've missed how the talks went between Bills brass and Sammy re: 5th year. You have the inside? Spill it.

 

And no, no way Sammy goes to Pats. They won't pay want he'll want. Poor value and they don't need him.

 

They don't need Sammy with the guys they already have on offense, but then again they do seem to have an affinity for Bills' players as evidenced by the acquisitions of Hogan, Gillislee, and Gilmore.

[stinky finger]

 

They don't need Sammy with the guys they already have on offense, but then again they do seem to have an affinity for Bills' players as evidenced by the acquisitions of Hogan, Gillislee, and Gilmore.

No doubt - amazing what good coaching can do.

 

Sammy is a luxury not needed on that team. He's not necessary to win.

[3rdand12]

No doubt - amazing what good coaching can do.

 

Sammy is a luxury not needed on that team. He's not necessary to win.

Interesting take

[stuvian]

The trades make good football sense for a new regime. Having suffered through the decade of fail I wonder how many more reorganizations I'll have to live through

[Doc]

The moves don't make sense in conjunction with the other moves the team has made. Why bring in Boldin? Why have Taylor on the roster? They've gotta be worse than the Jets or 9ers to get their guy at QB. Don't sell 24 year old players and say you're building for the future. He should've been part of the future. It's hard to sell another rebuild when they've gone 17 years without making the playoffs. McDermott's different Beane is different, just like Gailey, Nix, Marrone, Jauron, Rex were different when they were hired.

 

If Tyrod is cut tomorrow I would agree with the moves more. If they're trading out of drafting a QB in the draft then trading their most talented player I want the team to get their guy. Not the guy whose leftover after the 9ers and Jets pick. These moves are clearly about getting a QB. Don't try to hide it with Taylor. I can't not root for the Bills and will hope they win on Sundays, yet after the season winning those 6 or so games will be a setback for the franchise.

Do you know how old Jordan Matthews and EJ Gaines are?

[stinky finger]

Interesting take

I would contend that Brandon Cooks is overkill.

 

With Brady behind center he'll make Hogan, Mitchell and of course Edelman look like the 3 amigo's. Not to mention Gronk.

 

Lol - Cooks. How many Wrs can say they've left the likes of Brees and IMPROVED who's pitching to them?!?

Edited August 14, 2017 by inaugural balls

[3rdand12]

I was thinking more about High end WRs being a a luxury.

When Bills picked Watkins, i did think. Why? EJ really isn't ready to use that weapon yet.

Cooks is just Belichick being bored and messing with teams. Much like Gillislee is thumbing their nose to Buffalo.

 

I would love to have Cooks here honestly. jealous of those basterdos

[GunnerBill]

I saw this thread on Friday.... but didn't quite know how I felt. A weekend later (with necessary horse racing and football (soccer) distractions) and to be honest.... I am still not sure I know.

 

So rather than gather my thoughts into a coherent view here are in bullet for are my views:

 

- I was never sold on Darby's fit in this defense.

- I was in favour of the Bills targeting Matthews earlier in the offseason (as a Woods replacement).

- I still believe Sammy Watkins has the talent to be a top 5 receiver in this league.

- EJ Gaines had a nice rookie season before injuries derailed his career.... it is not beyond the realm of possibility that with a fresh start he gets back to his best.

- This leaves the Bills a worse team for 2017 than they were before.

- I think they are serious when they say they are still trying to win this year.

- This looks like a route to 6-10.

- I believe that whatever happens they are going to be taking a shot at a QB in 2018.

[entropyrules]

If the players that came back in the trade were not at the tail end of their contracts I would agree the trades were reasonable given the Bill's current situation as a perennial 500 team. But both those players will be gone at the end of the season and all the trades will show is a 2nd and 3rd both of whom will now be used to draft replacements for Watkins and Darby.

 

Having said all that if the front office begins to dump more veterans in an effort to totally re-stock then at least that's a direction taking them out of their current state of mediocrity. Its the lack of a total strategic plan which is bothersome. I can't wait to proven wrong and see Beane/McDermott take the Bills to the playoffs next year.