Go on record regarding the trades

[TheFunPolice]

Every time Brady has had stud WR he has lost the SB.

 

You just need solid WR who do the whole job. Great WR get forced the ball and cost you.

[Kirby Jackson]

Looking at career stats between Matthews and Watkins is pretty interesting...especially looking at games played, catches and TD. He also seems to be a great teammate and blocker in the run game. Wentz was pretty upset by the trade.

 

Gaines and Darby have similar career stats. Gaines was much more productive in college and always has shown the ability to be around the ball. That fits better.

 

Very subjective until games are played but seems like upgrades with these new coaching staff and scheme.

Their stats are similar until you factor in that Matthews has been thrown the ball 70 times more. If you use Sammy's career average of 8.91 yards per target he'd have another 623 yards. Obviously injuries are a big factor. At the same time you need to compare them based on a per target basis. What does the guy do when the ball comes his way? That's why no one thinks that the Bills got the better player.

 

Matthews is a high end #2 and a guybthat hopefully is a part of their long-term future. I think that they will take another guy relatively early next year and the combination of draft pick, Zay and Matthews will be their WRs. That's not bad.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You think running the ball will be easier without the threat of Watkins over the top??? Also, Matthews and Gaines aren't upgrades (even Beane virtually said so much). He ducked the question on it. No one things that the Bills returned better players. The picks were the appealing part.

Ran the ball fine without Watkins

[Kirby Jackson]

I think they expect Clay be a threat down the seam and Zay Jones to win 1 on 1 matchups when he gets them. Have to hope one of the fast guys steps up and becomes another deep threat now.

Zay hasn't been a speed guy though. He is pretty fast but not a guy that teams fear over the top. Maybe they add someone still to fill that role otherwise they are going to be running against 10 man boxes.

Ran the ball fine without Watkins

...and you still had the threat of Goodwin over the top. Say what you want about the guy as a player but you had to provide hep over the top because no one can run with him. If the Bills even got someone like that it would be a big help. Now there are going to be 22 bodies within 10 yards of the LOS. Edited August 13, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Coach Tuesday]

Matthews is a high end #2 and a guybthat hopefully is a part of their long-term future.

I don't think either of those things are true.

[WideRightRevenge]

You think running the ball will be easier without the threat of Watkins over the top??? Also, Matthews and Gaines aren't upgrades (even Beane virtually said so much). He ducked the question on it. No one things that the Bills returned better players. The picks were the appealing part.

 

Kirby ... I agree with your take on Matthews / Gaines not particularly being upgrades ... but Sammy only played in 8 games last year and in those only had 4 receptions go over 20 yards .. .so no I don't think he was the over the top threat that led us leading the league in rushing .. he wasn't there 50% of the time and the other 50% he ran on one leg last season.

[sjjr]

Zay hasn't been a speed guy though. He is pretty fast but not a guy that teams fear over the top. Maybe they add someone still to fill that role otherwise they are going to be running against 10 man boxes.

...and you still had the threat of Goodwin over the top. Say what you want about the guy as a player but you had to provide hep over the top because no one can run with him. If the Bills even got someone like that it would be a big help. Now there are going to be 22 bodies within 10 yards of the LOS.

Zay Jones might surprise with his explosiveness. Can make some unbelievable catches down field. When he's had 1 on 1 matchups in college and at all star games he's made plays.

[Kirby Jackson]

Zay Jones might surprise with his explosiveness. Can make some unbelievable catches down field. When he's had 1 on 1 matchups in college and at all star games he's made plays.

I love Zay Jones and have high expectations for him. He can make those plays but don't necessarily think that's who he is as a player. Matthews made those plays in college too. He was a phenomenal college receiver in the SEC.

 

I wish that they had a burner if Sammy is gone (wanted one even if he was here). It's as important for the running game as it is for the passing game. If you can keep the safeties from the LOS it opens up the run game and the WC passing concepts.

 

Kirby ... I agree with your take on Matthews / Gaines not particularly being upgrades ... but Sammy only played in 8 games last year and in those only had 4 receptions go over 20 yards .. .so no I don't think he was the over the top threat that led us leading the league in rushing .. he wasn't there 50% of the time and the other 50% he ran on one leg last season.

They still had the threat of Goodwin though. There was always help over the top on him because of his elite speed.

I don't think either of those things are true.

I hope that your wrong but maybe not. Not signing him at this point would be really stupid IMO. You have tons of money. He can be a reliable possession guy.

[Scott7975]

I love Zay Jones and have high expectations for him. He can make those plays but don't necessarily think that's who he is as a player. Matthews made those plays in college too. He was a phenomenal college receiver in the SEC.

 

I wish that they had a burner if Sammy is gone (wanted one even if he was here). It's as important for the running game as it is for the passing game. If you can keep the safeties from the LOS it opens up the run game and the WC passing concepts.

They still had the threat of Goodwin though. There was always help over the top on him because of his elite speed.

I hope that your wrong but maybe not. Not signing him at this point would be really stupid IMO. You have tons of money. He can be a reliable possession guy.

You may be right but not necessarily. I went back and found an instance where our receivers consisted of Woods, Tate, Hunter, Powell. McCoy was out that game too. We had 167 yards rushing and roughly 200 yards passing. Second Pats game last year.

 

I really don't think teams are going to play 10 in the box. I respect your posting but I think that's insane no matter who the receivers are.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Scott7975

[oldmanfan]

When all is said and done we basically fell off somewhat with Sammy vs. Jordan, but also now have Bolden. Love Sammy and wouldn't have traded him (assuming no behind the scenes stuff), but we still have a number of playmakers, we'll still have a strong running game, and we should be better on D.

 

So no the world is not ending.

[Kirby Jackson]

You may be right but not necessarily. I went back and found an instance where our receivers consisted of Woods, Tate, Hunter, Powell. McCoy was out that game too. We had 167 yards rushing and roughly 200 yards passing. Second Pats game last year.

 

I really don't think teams are going to play 10 in the box. I respect your posting but I think that's insane no matter who the receivers are.

We will see. I know that is how I would defend them until they proved me wrong. That's how people defend the Chiefs. That's why Tyreke Hill was such a revelation for them.

[Scott7975]

We will see. I know that is how I would defend them until they proved me wrong. That's how people defend the Chiefs. That's why Tyreke Hill was such a revelation for them.

Yes we will see. I don't think it will be bad as you think. Found another instance in 2015. Receivers were Woods, Easley, and Hogan. 115 yards rushing, 260 yards passing. The Jags game with EJ.

 

I really just don't see teams playing 10 in the box. We don't need track stars to burn people over the top. Zay isn't really all that slow and Taylors strength passing wise is his deep ball.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Scott7975

[Wayne Cubed]

I swear fans tell themselves that Sammy was gone after this season so the move doesn't seem as bad. It's what fans do every time a talented player leaves Buffalo. "Well he was gone after the season, so at least they got something for him". The number of times I've heard that from Bills fans is crazy. It was the same thing with Peters.

 

These guys have proved nothing yet. I'm sorry but I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt, they have no track record and haven't earned it. They have a plan? Is that why Beane said they weren't actively shopping Watkins or Darby? That sounds like they don't have a plan, especially with the timing.

 

Also, let's say he did leave after this year and their plan is to build through the draft and not spend in FA, they would have got a 3rd round comp pick.

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

I'd take Luck over Watkins, personally. You? AFC championship game, playoffs, MVP-caliber seasons, 49-33 record with him starting...yeah, I'd say it's working out well for the Colts.

 

If that is the case and we get a once in a generation QB, I hope we protect him better than Indy has with Luck. The men calling the shots over there have been blindfolded.

 

I think it ultimately boils down to whether Sammy will rebound this year and prove he's Elite for 16 games, then would we even be able to resign him past the franchise tag? Could he do it again? I would've hoped so and without a doubt would've tagged him after a monster season this year... So many IF's when it came to him. Wish him the best with the Rams. As for Buffalo, a team that has deficiencies throwing the ball and plans to run it constantly, the price tag would've been unreasonable. If this is the year Sammy breaks out, it'll be tough to watch for all of us. If he flounders, gets injured or just underperformance due to Goff's inexperience, then we made out like bandits.

 

Wait, watch, remember we're lucky to have a team in NY. Go Bills!

[MiltonWaddams]

It took me days to vote on this. I was a huge Sammy fan, despite his oft-injured status. I still see him as easily the best WR talent the Bills have had since Moulds and, more likely, Andre. It's tough to see him leave based on that and what he was acquired for.

Darby was a loss, but you have to see that a defensive HC is going to need guys that fit his scheme and Darby was not one. A talent? Absolutely.

I voted yes in the end. This team needs an influx of young talent and shaping the draft with two picks in each of the first three rounds does that and gives them immense flexibility to acquire top tier talent. They weren't going to re-sign Sammy by all accounts and the SB is a pipe dream this season. Building for the future is the intelligent path.

[Rico]

I swear fans tell themselves that Sammy was gone after this season so the move doesn't seem as bad. It's what fans do every time a talented player leaves Buffalo. "Well he was gone after the season, so at least they got something for him". The number of times I've heard that from Bills fans is crazy. It was the same thing with Peters.

 

These guys have proved nothing yet. I'm sorry but I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt, they have no track record and haven't earned it. They have a plan? Is that why Beane said they weren't actively shopping Watkins or Darby? That sounds like they don't have a plan, especially with the timing.

 

Also, let's say he did leave after this year and their plan is to build through the draft and not spend in FA, they would have got a 3rd round comp pick.

Some fans may feel that way.

 

Peters was a stud LT and I really hated seeing him leave, that was a front office BLUNDER that could've been avoided.

 

Sammy has proved that he has potential to be great, and that's about it. I'm more upset right now about burning (2) #1's & a #4 for him, another front office BLUNDER.

 

Trading him now and getting some value for him is not a blunder IMO, it's just part of cleaning up the previous admin's mess.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I swear fans tell themselves that Sammy was gone after this season so the move doesn't seem as bad. It's what fans do every time a talented player leaves Buffalo. "Well he was gone after the season, so at least they got something for him". The number of times I've heard that from Bills fans is crazy. It was the same thing with Peters.

These guys have proved nothing yet. I'm sorry but I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt, they have no track record and haven't earned it. They have a plan? Is that why Beane said they weren't actively shopping Watkins or Darby? That sounds like they don't have a plan, especially with the timing.

Also, let's say he did leave after this year and their plan is to build through the draft and not spend in FA, they would have got a 3rd round comp pick.

In 2019 not 2018 for the comp pick

[NoSaint]

Looking at career stats between Matthews and Watkins is pretty interesting...especially looking at games played, catches and TD. He also seems to be a great teammate and blocker in the run game. Wentz was pretty upset by the trade.

 

Gaines and Darby have similar career stats. Gaines was much more productive in college and always has shown the ability to be around the ball. That fits better.

 

Very subjective until games are played but seems like upgrades with these new coaching staff and scheme.

Come on - there's a reason we got the day two draft picks- we lost the better players.

 

Wentz would've been far less heartbroken if he got Sammy

[Bill_with_it]

We weren't in cap trouble. There's really no such thing as cap trouble unless you are utterly incompetent (which a few teams have proven to be). You can just keep kicking the can down the road pretty much forever. Teams have learned this and are doing it now.

Exactly its not sustainable just as I stated quite a bit. Either the player gets cut, traded, accepts a lesser contract, or released. Going out of your way to pay something to a player that will cause your team to be less of a winner because you cant afford other players isnt a very smart thing to do. For example see the saints.

[disco]

I swear fans tell themselves that Sammy was gone after this season so the move doesn't seem as bad. It's what fans do every time a talented player leaves Buffalo. "Well he was gone after the season, so at least they got something for him". The number of times I've heard that from Bills fans is crazy. It was the same thing with Peters.

I agree with you here, but Sammy's comments on he NBA contracts and how his class was going to change that really worried me. I think this is an interesting instance where we'll get to see in a year from now how exactly what type of situation we'd have dealt with - I can't think of many (any?) cases in the NFL where you've got that level of draft pick being traded on an expiring rookie deal.

 

In any event, for me it's not just about not being capable of keeping him, but whether it's realistic that we'd want to given where the team will be at. Here are the scenarios I see:

A) Tyrod takes a step forward, is good enough that we pick up his contract (basically 2 year commitment). Watkins stays healthy, has strong year for the Rams

B) Tyrod continues to show shortcomings (won't throw over middle, won't anticipate throws, etc) and we decide to move on. Watkins stays healthy, strong year for Rams

C) Tyrod takes step forward, we pick up contract. Watkins continues to battle injuries for Rams

D) Tyrod comes up short, we move on. Watkins continues to battle injuries for Rams

 

Understanding these are a little simplistic and B,D are impacted by Watkins being gone...only in scenario A would I think the Bills really made a mistake. It feels like the least likely option. In option B, this feels like this would be a hard deal to get done. We'd be looking at a rookie QB and now you've got to sell that to Watkins. Even if you can, we'd have to be what the highest paid player on the team? 2nd? That feels like a rough plan. Option C & D - I will guess even if Watkins battles injuries this year, some team will be willing to gamble and give him a big contract. For me, I'd prefer the Bills not be that team.

 

I think it's terribly disappointing that Watkins didn't work out. I'm really disappointed EJ didn't work out, because that was the first domino. Not that I'm not rooting for Tyrod, but I'm ready for the Bills to pick a QB at the top of the board next year and trying this process with a blue chip guy.