BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) If this staff is thinking ahead, and by these moves you have to assume they are, then there's a reason they felt Watkins was worth moving for that additional second. You can argue otherwise, but there's nothing in these trades that makes me think they're not operating with a long term plan in mind. That leads me to believe that either A: they knew they weren't keeping Watkins and got value for him while they could or B: they have reasons for wanting an additional 2nd in 2018. You're arguing C: that they dealt Watkins because they don't know what they're doing. Which of those three is least likely? Seeing as every Bills FO hired in the last decade has been fired in disgrace for sucking, I'd say C. and sleep soundly. Signing Vlad Ducassee and losing a third round comp pick isn't "thinking ahead." They are making egregious errors early and often. Edited August 12, 2017 by jmc12290
San-O Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 No. Bad trades. Sammy is going to be a superstar. With two ones and a two next year we can get the franchise QB we want without the extra two if that's what they are doing. I wouldn't mind the Darby trade if we didn't do the Sammy one. I would have taken Matthews and a 3 for Darby. Obviously the Bills weren't that interesting in betting he would be healthy this year and probably weren't interested in signing him to a long term contract next year even if he did.
BillsFan4 Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Seeing as every Bills FO hired in the last decade has been fired in disgrace for sucking, I'd say C. and sleep soundly. Signing Vlad Ducassee and losing a third round comp pick isn't "thinking ahead." They are making egregious errors early and often. Wasn't ducasse (and the other players that formulate into the comp pick) signed before Beane and his front office staff were even hired? doesn't seem fair to blame them. And it wasn't just signing him that loses a 3rd comp pick. It's a combination of Ducasse, Holmes, Hauschka and Ryan Davis. They have to cut 3 of those 4 to get the comp 3rd IIRC. I fully expect at least 2 of the 4 to be cut. I don't think Hauschka will be, and Holmes is a toss up. If they can
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Wasn't ducasse (and the other players that formulate into the comp pick) signed before Beane and his front office staff were even hired? doesn't seem fair to blame them. And it wasn't just signing him that loses a 3rd comp pick. It's a combination of Ducasse, Holmes, Hauschka and Ryan Davis. They have to cut 3 of those 4 to get the comp 3rd IIRC. I fully expect at least 2 of the 4 to be cut. I don't think Hauschka will be, and Holmes is a toss up. If they can If you're going to trade your best WR for a second round pick, why sign a #4 WR when he's going to cost you a third rounder? It makes no sense. McD was calling the shots then and now. If Beane was looking ahead to that pick, Ducasse, Davis and Holmes would already be gone.
GoBills808 Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Seeing as every Bills FO hired in the last decade has been fired in disgrace for sucking, I'd say C. and sleep soundly. Not really pertinent to the discussion about the current one, though.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 One more comparison for ***** and grins. @RapSheet Interesting note from @NFLResearch on new #Rams WR Sammy Watkins... look at his 1st 3 seasons compared to Julio Jones. Had same injury, too:
Boatdrinks Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Obviously the Bills weren't that interesting in betting he would be healthy this year and probably weren't interested in signing him to a long term contract next year even if he did. Great, they don't want to sign guys if they are healthy and produce. Glad they're in charge of this team now. One more comparison for ***** and grins. @RapSheet Interesting note from @NFLResearch on new #Rams WR Sammy Watkins... look at his 1st 3 seasons compared to Julio Jones. Had same injury, too: But you don't understand, Sammy is softer than the tough guys around Buffalo and yelled at them for harassing him on his social media. He had to go, so let's not bring logic and reasoning into this. Forget about the potential payoff down the road, get something for that wimp!
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Not really pertinent to the discussion about the current one, though. Hmm, and here I thought the brilliant minds behind the Whaley extension and Rex Ryan experiment hired McD and Beane.
8-8 Forever? Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 If Sammy left and we did indeed get our franchise Qb in the 2018, we had zilch from Sammy. I'd rather get the second than just lose him. bingo. they were never giving Sammy a big contract. he wouldn't have done much this year with the run game and TT's deficiencies, plus he is damaged goods. we'll see, but he could be out of the league in a few years from injury or Larry Fitz. Beane took the 2nd and a starter and moved on.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 bingo. they were never giving Sammy a big contract. he wouldn't have done much this year with the run game and TT's deficiencies, plus he is damaged goods. we'll see, but he could be out of the league in a few years from injury or Larry Fitz. Beane took the 2nd and a starter and moved on. Sheesh! People have to make stuff up to justify their POV.
BillsFanM.D. Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Since this is all about being on the record: 1. I hate the Watkins trade. If the 2018 draft were today, would you not spend a first (late first at worst) to draft a 24 year old Sammy Watkins. What future are we planning for when you trade that guy? I don't get it at all. He'll be special and this trade will be 'bad' down the road. 2. I liked the Darby trade. I think in our current D (assuming our front four is as advertised) allows for more pedestrian corner play. Even if we did not acquire Gaines, I have no beef trading a 'solid' starter in Darby for a 'solid' starter in Matthews....plus a pick. As a final image, I almost threw up when I saw that photoshopped pic of Watkins in a Rams uni. I don't get it. The Julio Jones comparisons (injuries and talent) make me very anxious. I hope Mr. Beane proves me wrong.
Boatdrinks Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 How do you know? Maybe that extra pick is what it'll take. That's a long shot, and it could be acquired in other ways than trading the team's best WR, and one of its most talented young players. It's hard to envision , for a team not tanking, to finish high enough where an extra second was worth the amount of spots surrendered for a team to move down all that far. If the Bills were in full on tank mode, perhaps. But where they'll likely finish the payoff for a 2nd round pick for a possible stud WR is not likely to be realized.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 @TBNSports LeSean McCoy says he can relate to Sammy Watkins getting traded for "a guy that he's probably better than http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/11/lesean-mccoy-can-relate-sammy-watkins-getting-traded-guy-hes-probably-better/ "Obviously it's a difference with the two," McCoy said. "So we'll see how they use Jordan. It's hard to tell right now. The only thing we can go off is the trade and the player's potential. If you compare the two, it's an obvious grade who's better, but you don't know how things will play out."
Boatdrinks Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 bingo. they were never giving Sammy a big contract. he wouldn't have done much this year with the run game and TT's deficiencies, plus he is damaged goods. we'll see, but he could be out of the league in a few years from injury or Larry Fitz. Beane took the 2nd and a starter and moved on. Could be, but could be a total stud. I'd take that chance vs a 2nd and a thoroughly average throw in CB. Not wanting to pay a player if he is productive is a poor argument for trading him.
Rochesterfan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Since this is all about being on the record: 1. I hate the Watkins trade. If the 2018 draft were today, would you not spend a first (late first at worst) to draft a 24 year old Sammy Watkins. What future are we planning for when you trade that guy? I don't get it at all. He'll be special and this trade will be 'bad' down the road. 2. I liked the Darby trade. I think in our current D (assuming our front four is as advertised) allows for more pedestrian corner play. Even if we did not acquire Gaines, I have no beef trading a 'solid' starter in Darby for a 'solid' starter in Matthews....plus a pick. As a final image, I almost threw up when I saw that photoshopped pic of Watkins in a Rams uni. I don't get it. The Julio Jones comparisons (injuries and talent) make me very anxious. I hope Mr. Beane proves me wrong. Point one is totally irrelevant - yes I would draft a 24 yr old SW in the first if he was under a rookie contract and the injuries were not there. I would not draft a 24 yr old SW with the known injury history and knowing you need to sign him at 13-15 million a year contract with the injury history. You trade the guy to get a younger version that is price controlled for 4 or 5 years and fits the scheme you want to run. The Julio Jones comparison is great if we had Matt Ryan and a passing offense, but that is not what we are doing this year or probably next year - so get something and move on.
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Point one is totally irrelevant - yes I would draft a 24 yr old SW in the first if he was under a rookie contract and the injuries were not there. I would not draft a 24 yr old SW with the known injury history and knowing you need to sign him at 13-15 million a year contract with the injury history. You trade the guy to get a younger version that is price controlled for 4 or 5 years and fits the scheme you want to run. The Julio Jones comparison is great if we had Matt Ryan and a passing offense, but that is not what we are doing this year or probably next year - so get something and move on. But you didn't have to pay Watkins a long term deal until after 2018 season. It must be liberating to be so comfortable with continued losing.....
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 But you didn't have to pay Watkins a long term deal until after 2018 season. It must be liberating to be so comfortable with continued losing..... One could say the same thing to you. Any change to your 8-8 comfort zone and you freak out.
Bob&Doug Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Voted definitely yes.....will miss Sammy, but his deep ball skills would've been wasted in this WC offensive scheme. Edited August 13, 2017 by Bob&Doug
Rochesterfan Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 But you didn't have to pay Watkins a long term deal until after 2018 season. It must be liberating to be so comfortable with continued losing..... After this year you either needed the the 5th year option or a franchise tag and both only gave you one year at 13 million or more. Then you would need a long term deal or lose him for nothing. The Bills got something for him. This is the first thing that has been different - keeping Sammy is the status Quo and the losing - having a vision that we are going to try and get a franchise QB and some players around him that is new. Will it work? We need to see, but you comfortable with losing would be to maintain the same old stuff with a guy that has brought them no where.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Bills have been the farm team of the NFL for years with all the bad trades (Lynch, Peters, Cassel) that they have made. To think they could have had UB's Khalil Mack. Add 2014 as another draft where the Bills got nothing.
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