Adam Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 I'm not trying to argue on this matter but when I hear drop off it baffles me since Sammy Watkins last year had 28 catches, 430 yards and 2 TD, Matthews had 73 catches, 804 yards and 3 TD, the year before is quite similar also. I think fans are basing Sammy Watkins production on what he's supposed to be rather than what he is right now. I can honestly say with Darby I was wondering how this regime viewed him since he'd be in a different scheme fit and I got my answer when he was traded. I know nothing about Gaines who we picked up but i do know Darby was benched last year for spotty play, I also know how talented he was as a rookie so we'll see there what Gaines has to offer, he's obviously a better scheme fit if he is who they wanted and should replace Darby on the depth chart, all I know is that I just saw an interview with Wade Phillips praising Gaines and that he was vying for the starter role in preseason so that's very encouraging to me, Just my opinions. The guys we picked up in trade will fit in nicely with the core we draft in April. We're finally getting it right after about two decades
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 What other good players can we give up for bad players and not be throwing in the towel? Shady for Minnesota's fourth string TE and a 3rd? Bad post
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Well, that's how organizations are built, they look into the future. McD/Beane were hired to install their vision of what they believe the team should look like. Clearly they didn't value Whaley's picks and they didn't want to gamble on an often-injured player who would have cost a lot more than what they were willing to pay. I have no problem with what they did, I actually think it makes a lot of sense. Are they better off for 2017, most likely not (unless of course Watkins gets injured again). But with 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders (one of them most likely almost a first rounder) and either 2-3 third rounders and 2 fourth rounders, they get to build this team from the ground up the way they see fit. I'm tired of mediocrity, and I'm willing to allow these guys who have proven to have won before a chance to build this team. If you agree they are worse off in 2017, you essentially agree they threw in the towel to some extent.
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 If you agree they are worse off in 2017, you essentially agree they threw in the towel to some extent. Only if you live in a black or white world.
KD in CA Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Whatever dude. Splitting heirs on that one. Trading your second most talented player for a crappy corner sound better? And to put ourselves in position for what? Some snot nose kid from USC that had three good games? Last guy like that is famous for "accidentally" banging underage girls and butt fumbles. Whoopie do. Just having a little fun with you and the rest of the crowd who keep repeating the 'talent' line. Problem is, at some point you have to stop making excuses and reconcile the talent with the production. And that's where Watkins falls short.
WideRightRevenge Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Build for the future ... Sammy was gone and we weren't going to pay him and got a 2nd from what is going to be a crappy LA team .. so hopefully High 2nd rounder .... Darby for Matthews .. I'll take that. Doug Whaley's worst move up in the draft has been kicked to the curb .... remember we could of had OBJ and not lost a first rounder the next year.
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Only if you live in a black or white world. That's why I said, "to some extent." Consciously making the 2017 Bills worse off is an admission they aren't going anywhere soon. At least until 2018-2019. When we have so many short term players on the roster that are key contributors like, Shady, TT, Kyle, you are giving up on them. You are saying they aren't good enough and we're going to wait for the future. That's throwing in the towel on the year. To some extent.
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Only if you live in a black or white world. How likely did you think a 2017 playoff birth was yesterday? How likely tonight?
par73 Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 At first, I was just shocked. Then, I thought, "Well another lost year here-- nothing new." Finally, I came to see it the way McDermott and Beane did, and with that, came acceptance. My biggest fear is the Bills will again be a "middling' team-- with playoffs just a pipe dream (probably the same without the trade). They do have a great draft stockpile, but no guarantee they will get a QB they like. They have put all their eggs in the 2018 draft basket (Darnold, for example, may not come out. Some QB's' stock will go down). Bottom line though is, how long are we looking at? How many years will this slow rebuild take to pay off, if at all?
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) How likely did you think a 2017 playoff birth was yesterday? How likely tonight? I would have said before the Watkins trade, 35%. Now, I'd say 25%. That's why I said, "to some extent." Consciously making the 2017 Bills worse off is an admission they aren't going anywhere soon. At least until 2018-2019. When we have so many short term players on the roster that are key contributors like, Shady, TT, Kyle, you are giving up on them. You are saying they aren't good enough and we're going to wait for the future. That's throwing in the towel on the year. To some extent. This has been a circular argument of semantics. There are a lot of shades of grey in between black and white, and this trade resides somewhere in between. Edited August 12, 2017 by Magox
QCity Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 We were a 7-win team yesterday. We are a 7-win team right now. The hysterics are entertaining though.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Sammy is a rare talent...we just gave up on a young rare player for a future 2nd round pick and marginal DB. Not liking it. We had nothing to lose letting Sammy play this year, there was no reason to do this trade IMO. And the type of injury he had is one that is hard to recover from and takes time because there isn't much you can do. And his lingered because they pressed to early last year between him and the staff. But once a full recovery is done, its almost always stronger than it was before it was injured. So, this really seemed like an injury he's fully past now, and a healthy Sammy is a top 10 WR in the NFL, and the potential to be ELITE. With him being so young, just don't think we got back enough value to make this move. I mean, most of you people want to cut a recent 2nd rounder before he has ever played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, yet now you champion a 2nd rounder next year like its the holy grail. Sammy is special, and the odds of a 2nd round pick producing a player of his talent level are low. When you are 17 years from your last playoff appearance, you should gamble on talent, not an unknown draft pick IMO. And to me Sammy was a low risk gamble now that his foot injury was gone and declined his option so were not tied to him long term if it did have injury issues again.
Deranged Rhino Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 I like the Mathews for Darby deal - dislike the Sammy deal (I realize they're connected though). They have to get the QB pick right in 2018... that's the only way I see this ending up being a win in the trade department. Even then, I sure would have liked to have given the 1st round Rook a star WR to throw the ball to. Might have helped speed up his development, but what do I know...
rockpile Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) I vote "yes" if the trades were motivated by a desire to get better THIS year as well as to get more picks NEXT year. I refuse to accept the idea that they are intentionally throwing in the towel after one preseason game. So my vote is "conditional". I admit I was shocked when I first heard this news. I love Watkins but I still worry about his injury. I am now back in my insulated position of having no expectations for the season beyond I expect them to play 16 games. Being a fan with no expectations is like running my PC in safe mode. Not as much fun, but less chance of a heart attack. Edited August 12, 2017 by rockpile
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 I would have said before the Watkins trade, 35%. Now, I'd say 25%. This has been a circular argument of semantics. There are a lot of shades of grey in between black and white, and this trade resides somewhere in between. That wasn't a response. You agree that the 2017 is worse off now, correct? That we are undergoing some short term pain for long term gain, yes? Does that indicate they have high hopes for this group in the short-term?
Adam Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Sammy is a rare talent...we just gave up on a young rare player for a future 2nd round pick and marginal DB. Not liking it. We had nothing to lose letting Sammy play this year, there was no reason to do this trade IMO. And the type of injury he had is one that is hard to recover from and takes time because there isn't much you can do. And his lingered because they pressed to early last year between him and the staff. But once a full recovery is done, its almost always stronger than it was before it was injured. So, this really seemed like an injury he's fully past now, and a healthy Sammy is a top 10 WR in the NFL, and the potential to be ELITE. With him being so young, just don't think we got back enough value to make this move. I mean, most of you people want to cut a recent 2nd rounder before he has ever played a single snap in the NFL in Ragland, yet now you champion a 2nd rounder next year like its the holy grail. Sammy is special, and the odds of a 2nd round pick producing a player of his talent level are low. When you are 17 years from your last playoff appearance, you should gamble on talent, not an unknown draft pick IMO. And to me Sammy was a low risk gamble now that his foot injury was gone and declined his option so were not tied to him long term if it did have injury issues again. Is he as rare as Herschel Walker?
WideRightRevenge Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 The bottom line is McD and Beane are purging .... I liked what I saw from Peterman last night against 3rd stringers granted .. but scoring drive on his first series .. certainly more than Yates showed and if Taiwan Jones catches a pass on 4th down .. we are a few yards out from the tying score ... if we're truly rebuilding ... let's not kid ourselves with Tyrod ... let Peterman go
bisonbrigade Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 The pain of watching the putrid play in 2017 hopefully will give way to a Franchise QB in 2018. Make no mistake this year Bills will be unwatchable. The Purge, Gilmore, Gillislee, Watkins, Darby, Woods and others just began.
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