Go on record regarding the trades

[Chilly]

These are moneyball moves-

 

Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder

and

Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder

 

That's all this is

That's a lot of made up percentages for two bad players.

[Kirby Jackson]

These are moneyball moves-

 

Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder

and

Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder

 

That's all this is

That's certainly the case. What I'm struggling with is why do you want 85% of the production when you have no salary constraints? You have boatloads of money. You can only play 11 guys at a time.

[Magox]

It is an exact description of what they did wrt 2017. It is borderline criminal to steal season ticket holders money like they did today. There is simply no way to claim we are better in 2017. 2018 and beyond can be argued I suppose.

 

Well, that's how organizations are built, they look into the future. McD/Beane were hired to install their vision of what they believe the team should look like. Clearly they didn't value Whaley's picks and they didn't want to gamble on an often-injured player who would have cost a lot more than what they were willing to pay. I have no problem with what they did, I actually think it makes a lot of sense.

 

Are they better off for 2017, most likely not (unless of course Watkins gets injured again). But with 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders (one of them most likely almost a first rounder) and either 2-3 third rounders and 2 fourth rounders, they get to build this team from the ground up the way they see fit.

 

I'm tired of mediocrity, and I'm willing to allow these guys who have proven to have won before a chance to build this team.

[Gunsgoodtime]

These are moneyball moves-

 

Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder

and

Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder

 

That's all this is

I agree, I think it will pay off next year, but we will be worse this year because of it, unless Sammy gets hurt. Also maybe will allow us to sign players in the future as Sammy has went on record saying they should be paid more and he wants to set the mark for Wr.....which he is totally not worth up to this point. I was just thinking, you know who had better numbers than Watkins for the Bills in recent years? Stevie freaking Johnson, a 7th round pick...or 6th can't remember for sure.

[TSNBDSC]

+1

[Magox]

It's a bit strong for my taste but when you are already likely on the outside looking in-- getting worse at passing and stopping the pass in the 2017 NFL is basically giving up the playoffs without crazy luck.

 

That we are leaving ourselves outside the race without actually throwing in the towel should actually upset you more, probably

 

On offense for sure (unless Watkins gets injured again), but on defense not so sure. Darby they say is not as good of a fit for this defense than Gaines, and they both struggled last year so it probably isn't that much of a drop off.

[Rico]

Way too early to call these moves one way or another until we see how Sammy turns out... but I do believe in draining the swamp, and if nothing else, I will salute McD and Beene for having big balls in cleaning up the big mess that Whaley made. I'm more upset with burning 2 #1's for Sammy than letting him go for a #2. I'll miss his potential, but I'll only miss him if he actually pans out. As for Darby, meh.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Rico

[NoSaint]

These are moneyball moves-

 

Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder

and

Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder

 

That's all this is

Gaines base salary this year is akin to 2 years of Darby's base... plus we accelerated Darby's signing bonus dead money. So that's the opposite of your idea.

[4merper4mer]

Well, that's how organizations are built, they look into the future. McD/Beane were hired to install their vision of what they believe the team should look like. Clearly they didn't value Whaley's picks and they didn't want to gamble on an often-injured player who would have cost a lot more than what they were willing to pay. I have no problem with what they did, I actually think it makes a lot of sense.

 

Are they better off for 2017, most likely not (unless of course Watkins gets injured again). But with 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders (one of them most likely almost a first rounder) and either 2-3 third rounders and 2 fourth rounders, they get to build this team from the ground up the way they see fit.

 

I'm tired of mediocrity, and I'm willing to allow these guys who have proven to have won before a chance to build this team.

In other words they threw in the towel.

[Magox]

In other words they threw in the towel.

 

No, they did what they thought to improve the franchise.

[4merper4mer]

No, they did what they thought to improve the franchise.

Pardon me. Threw in the 2017 towel.

[Magox]

Pardon me. Threw in the 2017 towel.

 

If they threw in the towel then why did they pick up Bolden?

[hondo in seattle]

I voted "no."

 

We just traded away one of our best offensive players and one of our best defensive players for guys I just don't know very well. (I don't follow other teams very much). CB and WR were NOT positions where we had excess strength.

 

But I'm open-minded. Beane and McD may know exactly what they're doing. They may have had very compelling reasons to make these trades. Wish we had some behind-the-scenes info.

[NoSaint]

 

If they threw in the towel then why did they pick up Bolden?

He had less than 600 yards at 8 yards a catch last year and is turning 37 this season-- im not sure signing him as your possible #1 is maximizing wins this year really.

 

I think his name is bigger than his impact, though I didn't hate him as a role player behind a star.

[Gunsgoodtime]

I voted "no."

 

We just traded away one of our best offensive players and one of our best defensive players for guys I just don't know very well. (I don't follow other teams very much). CB and WR were NOT positions where we had excess strength.

 

But I'm open-minded. Beane and McD may know exactly what they're doing. They may have had very compelling reasons to make these trades. Wish we had some behind-the-scenes info.

Watch the beane and mcdermott interviews on buffalo Bills website, probably as close as you will come. I get it, but it still hurts

[4merper4mer]

If they threw in the towel then why did they pick up Bolden?

 

Dude. Seriously. These moves were clearly to pick up draft picks. At this point in his career Boldin's talent level is Mercury to Sammy's Jupiter. They are going the Sabres route. Let's hope there are more Eichel's and fewer neck tattoos.

[Magox]

He had less than 600 yards at 8 yards a catch last year and is turning 37 this season-- im not sure signing him as your possible #1 is maximizing wins this year really.

 

I think his name is bigger than his impact, though I didn't hate him as a role player behind a star.

 

I didn't say he was a game changer, but make no mistake about it, by signing Bolden, which they clearly didn't have to, it helps disprove the notion that they were looking to tank the season.

 

In the past week they lost Watkins and picked up Jordan Matthews and Bolden. I'd argue that we aren't significantly worse off for 2017.

[hondo in seattle]

These are moneyball moves-

 

Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder

and

Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder

 

That's all this is

 

 

I had pretty much the same thought when I first learned of the trades.

 

But here's the issue. Winning teams have a few standout players with a bunch of JAGs. You can get JAGs anywhere. It's the standouts who define your team.

 

Both Watkins and Darby have the potential to be standout players. The guys we got combined with the draft picks we'll get just might deliver us four JAGs.

Edited August 12, 2017 by hondo in seattle

[Magox]

Dude. Seriously. These moves were clearly to pick up draft picks. At this point in his career Boldin's talent level is Mercury to Sammy's Jupiter. They are going the Sabres route. Let's hope there are more Eichel's and fewer neck tattoos.

 

I understand that man. But it ain't "throwing in the towel"

[jr1]

Matthews is probably a lateral move given Sammy's injury history. Kinda worried about Grimes but Seymour has shown flashes