Bills trade Sammy Watkins to Rams for CB Gaines, 2nd rd pick

[mrags]

Seems like the sour grape juice is flowing like a river among certain TBD members. It might just be that Watkins will make Goff a better QB just the way that AJ Green has made Andy Dalton better. It's amazing how much a QB's play can improve when he has protection and targets ... or fall off if his team messes up his OL and trades away his best target.

Sammy was great for EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. Edited September 5, 2017 by mrags

[YoloinOhio]

Seems like the sour grape juice is flowing like a river among certain TBD members. It might just be that Watkins will make Goff a better QB just the way that AJ Green has made Andy Dalton better. It's amazing how much a QB's play can improve when he has protection and targets ... or fall off if his team messes up his OL and trades away his best target.

TT has the exact same OL this year as last year.

[BringBackFergy]

Sammy was great for EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor.

Yeah...but, but, but...we didn't throw any "bubble screens"...had we done that we would have won a Superbowl last year

[Magox]

TT has the exact same OL this year as last year.

 

What was the Bills record with Watkins and without him this past season?

Edited September 5, 2017 by Magox

[Boatdrinks]

i think that Sammy will squawk if that doesn't happen, since he's in a contract year.

I kind of feel bad for Woods. He's like deja vu

Woods is not a #1 WR. Good utility #2 guy though.

[mrags]

Yeah...but, but, but...we didn't throw any "bubble screens"...had we done that we would have won a Superbowl last year

hearing all these arguments is like hearing about how all we needed to do was get CJ in space all over again

[YoloinOhio]

Woods is not a #1 WR. Good utility #2 guy though.

oh I know. He just said he knew if he stayed in Bflo he'd never be a #1 because Sammy was here. Welp.

 

What was the Bills record with Watkins and without him this past season?

2-6 and the two wins were vs Browns and Jax.

 

To be fair it's possible they beat some of the teams the lost to without him. Water under the bridge now.

[thebandit27]

Sammy was great for EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor.

 

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA with Sammy Watkins: 8.8 (good enough to lead the NFL in 2015 and finish 2nd in 2016)

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA without Sammy Watkins: 6.2 (poor enough to finish 34th in 2015 and 30th in 2016)

 

Yes, he was very, very good for Tyrod.

 

What was the Bills record with Watkins and without him this past season?

 

It probably would've helped slightly had they made any kind of concerted effort to actually throw the ball to him.

[MarkyMannn]

SW's preseason stats were 2 catches for 8 yards. Yeah that's preseason but people here want Peterman as QB based on preseason, so.............

[mrags]

 

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA with Sammy Watkins: 8.8 (good enough to lead the NFL in 2015 and finish 2nd in 2016)

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA without Sammy Watkins: 6.2 (poor enough to finish 34th in 2015 and 30th in 2016)

 

Yes, he was very, very good for Tyrod.

 

 

It probably would've helped slightly had they made any kind of concerted effort to actually throw the ball to him.

stats can be found to prove anyone's point either way you look at it. I'm not going to go on and look everything up. But I'm pretty sure we didn't do squat with Tyrod and we sure didn't do anything with EJ. At the end of the day a WR that couldn't stay on the field didn't get us to more than 8 wins a season with either of those QBs.

[Magox]

2-6 and the two wins were vs Browns and Jax.

 

 

 

So the Bills were able to win without him last year and they have the same offensive line?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA with Sammy Watkins: 8.8 (good enough to lead the NFL in 2015 and finish 2nd in 2016)

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA without Sammy Watkins: 6.2 (poor enough to finish 34th in 2015 and 30th in 2016)

 

Yes, he was very, very good for Tyrod.

 

It probably would've helped slightly had they made any kind of concerted effort to actually throw the ball to him.

 

We never actually saw him healthy in 2016.

[Magox]

 

It probably would've helped slightly had they made any kind of concerted effort to actually throw the ball to him.

 

Whose fault would you assign for that?

 

TT 50%, Lynn 40%, Watkins 10%?

 

TT 90%, Lynn 5%, Watkins 5%?

 

Or other factors?

[Boatdrinks]

Whose fault would you assign for that?

 

TT 50%, Lynn 40%, Watkins 10%?

 

TT 90%, Lynn 5%, Watkins 5%?

 

Or other factors?

 

Last year , I'd assign it mostly to the foot injury. Lynn seemed to target him when he came back in DEC a bit more. Earlier SW didn't seem quite right but still got open often enough. The previous year I'd say 90% Roman as he apparently changed his mind at the drop of a hat and miraculously started targeting Watkins the second half of the year.

[GoBills808]

 

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA with Sammy Watkins: 8.8 (good enough to lead the NFL in 2015 and finish 2nd in 2016)

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA without Sammy Watkins: 6.2 (poor enough to finish 34th in 2015 and 30th in 2016)

 

Yes, he was very, very good for Tyrod.

The argument being 'YPA=Good'?

[thebandit27]

stats can be found to prove anyone's point either way you look at it. I'm not going to go on and look everything up. But I'm pretty sure we didn't do squat with Tyrod and we sure didn't do anything with EJ. At the end of the day a WR that couldn't stay on the field didn't get us to more than 8 wins a season with either of those QBs.

 

Ag long as finishing in the top-10 in scoring offense qualifies as "didn't do squat", then I agree.

 

 

Whose fault would you assign for that?

 

TT 50%, Lynn 40%, Watkins 10%?

 

TT 90%, Lynn 5%, Watkins 5%?

 

Or other factors?

 

Some combination thereof, but I lean closer to your first breakdown as opposed to your second one.

 

The argument being 'YPA=Good'?

 

Well, it correlates most directly with winning:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/10/finally-an-effective-way-to-rank-nfl-quarterbacks/264154/

 

What stat correlated the best with winning? Yards/pass attempt. The second most-important stat was interception percentage.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Indeed...though I should've made clear that I was referring to the passing game.

 

 

 

 

 

To emphasize your original point though:

 

When Sammy was off the field Tyrod and the passing game suffered.

 

When McCoy was off the field.....injury or otherwise.......the running game didn't miss a beat......it was actually MORE efficient and productive wrt scoring......except during the brief Boobie Dixon/Boom Herron/Cierre Wood by committee period.

 

Not saying this to inflame the sensitive McCoy crowd but it is simple fact.

 

Sammy was much less replaceable.

 

Playmakers in the passing game generally are........both teams may end up losing in that trade because as I said in other threads, the Rams very likely can't pay he and Donald both.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

 

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA with Sammy Watkins: 8.8 (good enough to lead the NFL in 2015 and finish 2nd in 2016)

Tyrod Taylor's career YPA without Sammy Watkins: 6.2 (poor enough to finish 34th in 2015 and 30th in 2016)

 

Yes, he was very, very good for Tyrod.

 

It probably would've helped slightly had they made any kind of concerted effort to actually throw the ball to him.

 

Using YPA to prove how good a WR/QB combo is? How many wins did that equate to? How many playoff appearances?

[Magox]

 

 

To emphasize your original point though:

 

When Sammy was off the field Tyrod and the passing game suffered.

 

When McCoy was off the field.....injury or otherwise.......the running game didn't miss a beat......it was actually MORE efficient and productive wrt scoring......except during the brief Boobie Dixon/Boom Herron/Cierre Wood by committee period.

 

Not saying this to inflame the sensitive McCoy crowd but it is simple fact.

 

Sammy was much less replaceable.

 

Playmakers in the passing game generally are........both teams may end up losing in that trade because as I said in other threads, the Rams very likely can't pay he and Donald both.

 

Interesting.

 

It must have been damn near miraculous that the Bills were able to go 6-2 without Sammy this past season, you know with him being "much less replaceable" and all.

[PolishDave]

 

Using YPA to prove how good a WR/QB combo is? How many wins did that equate to? How many playoff appearances?

 

It's far more accurate than using wins and losses (a total team stat) to say how good any one or two players are.