Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 And there you go getting sucked back in!Nah, I'm out. I tried. There is just a bunch of made up stuff floating around here as fact at the moment. I'm done banging my head against the wall. If people want to just make things up I guess it's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 So he wasn't cleared? Cool story"doctors consider his availability in upcoming games to be a pain-management issue"Cool story bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Matthews is not a speed guy in the NFL irrespective of what he timed in shorts. He's a physical possession WR best suited to slot duty and when given chances to play outside hasn't been as effective. Jones looks promising, but is an unknown at this juncture. Obviously the WCO is designed to attack the field horizontally, but it's still nice to have the deep threat as part of the arsenal. I'm skeptical as to any one of the WRs being able to defeat single coverage of opposing teams' #1 CBs with any kind of consistency. In shorts. How fast you play in real games is what matters. Streater? What has he done in the NFL? I don't know. I guess I'm just not really that worried about a deep threat, and I think between some of the guys we have one of them will be able to run a go route when needed. This isn't the same Greg Doman style offense. It's not predicated on a deep threat like his was. The offense and run game seemed to do fine without Sammy last year, and I'd argue that our WR core is an upgrade over what we had last season (especially without Sammy on the field). So hopefully it'll be the same this year... It's likely a transition year anyway. The team is far from done being built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 "doctors consider his availability in upcoming games to be a pain-management issue" Cool story bro. And the point is what? He seems to manage it pretty well against Miami. If a guy can't make a cut or get out of his break due to an injury should he go out there anyway? There's an old saying about playing hurt, but not playing injured. I don't know. I guess I'm just not really that worried about a deep threat, and I think between some of the guys we have one of them will be able to run a go route when needed. This isn't the same Greg Doman style offense. It's not predicated on a deep threat like his was. The offense and run game seemed to do fine without Sammy last year, and I'd argue that our WR core is an upgrade over what we had last season (especially without Sammy on the field). So hopefully it'll be the same this year... It's likely a transition year anyway. The team is far from done being built. Yeah they weren't going to win this year anyway. Might as well ship off the top talent and start from scratch. Maybe after 3 or 4 more drafts they might be ready to make the playoffs that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) And the point is what? He seems to manage it pretty well against Miami. If a guy can't make a cut or get out of his break due to an injury should he go out there anyway? There's an old saying about playing hurt, but not playing injured. Yeah they weren't going to win this year anyway. Might as well ship off the top talent and start from scratch. Maybe after 3 or 4 more drafts they might be ready to make the playoffs that way. they were clearly not 1 Sammy Watkins away from the playoffs anyway. They have massive holes all over the roster with terrible depth and signing him for $15-$17+M per year greatly hurts their ability to field a complete team with depth, especially with some of the big salaries on the cap for the next couple/few years. It's kind of a waste with a run first team, and an elite WR isn't what wins championships anyway. They're nice to have, but nowhere near one of the key important pieces IMO. 6 picks in the first 3 rounds gives the Bills a chance at building an actual, complete team. Another draft or two and they might actually have some real depth too. Something the Bills haven't had in a long time. The best teams are built through the draft. Like it or not this was more than likely a transition year anyway. New GM, all new coaches, new schemes. When you change coaches and schemes, some players no longer fit. They will figure out which players those are and move on from them. Your timeline of 3 years is probably about right, even if we don't like it. But at least this team is being built properly through the draft for once instead of taking the bandaid approach. Edited August 14, 2017 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 And the point is what? He seems to manage it pretty well against Miami. If a guy can't make a cut or get out of his break due to an injury should he go out there anyway? There's an old saying about playing hurt, but not playing injured. Yeah they weren't going to win this year anyway. Might as well ship off the top talent and start from scratch. Maybe after 3 or 4 more drafts they might be ready to make the playoffs that way. Typical Buffalo....let's just keep losing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Typical every bad team that needs to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Typical Buffalo....let's just keep losing..... How is that typical Buffalo? For the last 17 years they've told themselves "We're so close!" and would trade their future for the present. Resulting in spinning their wheels and winning 7 or 8 games on an annual basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 How is that typical Buffalo? For the last 17 years they've told themselves "We're so close!" and would trade their future for the present. Resulting in spinning their wheels and winning 7 or 8 games on an annual basis. Because along with the Sabres all I read on here is tank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Posted this in the other trade thread, but, in a vacuum, $10 million per year for a guy who will usually be in the line-up and give you about 900 yards and 5-6 TDs is good value. Edit: Also, unsure how Matthews/Jones/Boldin seems like anything worse than an above average top 3 WRs. Disagree....10+M for a guy giving 5-6 TDs is very poor value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Because along with the Sabres all I read on here is tank.... The over-reactions the past several days are mystifying. They're tanking, they have no plan, they don't care about winning, Beane and McD are not on the same page and now there's drama and intrigue, it's typical Bills stuff. I've seen all these things stated over the weekend, and they're all insane in my opinion. And I am one who did not like the Sammy trade. But let's just step back and consider what really is going on here: In the final analysis, we got weaker at one WR spot, assuming Sammy is completely healthy. A healthy Sammy is better than Matthews. No one is going to argue that. But we also added veterans in Matthews and Bolden, so if you compare to last year (when Sammy was out) the current group of WRs is certainly better than what we had last year. The running game should be no different, at least personnel wise. J Will looked good Thursday night and him and Tolbert should negate the Gillislee loss. And Shady is Shady. The only real concern with the offense right now is whether TT can be the guy (and that was the same question before and after the trade) and the health of Glenn, which is to me by far my biggest worry right now. We traded one CB for another, and Grimes and Darby with the zone scheme are a wash. We are better up front if for no other reason than the scheme. And we still have a question of two at LB and safety, which again was there before the trade. So what exactly happened the past few days to make us all think we are suddenly so much worse than we were last Thursday? Nothing, really. As for the stuff about them not having a plan, really? Their plan is to be competitive long term and short term. They said that. I covered the short term above, in that we really are no better or worse other than one WR spot than we were several days ago. And long term they have 6 picks in the top three rounds to use either as ammunition to get a top flight QB, or to add a lot of talent to the roster if say TT works out or they decide to get a guy like Cousins as a FA. Their plan is to build a team with the kind of talent and the kind of players they think they need to have a consistently winning team. What this franchise has needed desperately for years now is stability and a commitment to a way of playing, and a commitment from ownership to see that through. Read Peter King today; he says the same thing. Pegula hired two guys who have worked together, and that were highly regarded by many as young up and comers in their respective roles. I think Terry and Kim will be smart enough to give them the time needed to put their culture and methods in place? Will it work? Time will tell. But we do know constantly switching things around hasn't. I'll say again, I didn't like the Sammy trade. I think when healthy he's a elite talent. I have to think there were things going on behind the scenes that we as fans are not aware of that influenced this decision. But to say we're tanking, that there's no plan, and all the stuff here the past few days? Please. The one true predictable thing about the Bills is that irrationality of fans anytime the team makes some kind of move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The over-reactions the past several days are mystifying. They're tanking, they have no plan, they don't care about winning, Beane and McD are not on the same page and now there's drama and intrigue, it's typical Bills stuff. I've seen all these things stated over the weekend, and they're all insane in my opinion. And I am one who did not like the Sammy trade. But let's just step back and consider what really is going on here: In the final analysis, we got weaker at one WR spot, assuming Sammy is completely healthy. A healthy Sammy is better than Matthews. No one is going to argue that. But we also added veterans in Matthews and Bolden, so if you compare to last year (when Sammy was out) the current group of WRs is certainly better than what we had last year. The running game should be no different, at least personnel wise. J Will looked good Thursday night and him and Tolbert should negate the Gillislee loss. And Shady is Shady. The only real concern with the offense right now is whether TT can be the guy (and that was the same question before and after the trade) and the health of Glenn, which is to me by far my biggest worry right now. We traded one CB for another, and Grimes and Darby with the zone scheme are a wash. We are better up front if for no other reason than the scheme. And we still have a question of two at LB and safety, which again was there before the trade. So what exactly happened the past few days to make us all think we are suddenly so much worse than we were last Thursday? Nothing, really. As for the stuff about them not having a plan, really? Their plan is to be competitive long term and short term. They said that. I covered the short term above, in that we really are no better or worse other than one WR spot than we were several days ago. And long term they have 6 picks in the top three rounds to use either as ammunition to get a top flight QB, or to add a lot of talent to the roster if say TT works out or they decide to get a guy like Cousins as a FA. Their plan is to build a team with the kind of talent and the kind of players they think they need to have a consistently winning team. What this franchise has needed desperately for years now is stability and a commitment to a way of playing, and a commitment from ownership to see that through. Read Peter King today; he says the same thing. Pegula hired two guys who have worked together, and that were highly regarded by many as young up and comers in their respective roles. I think Terry and Kim will be smart enough to give them the time needed to put their culture and methods in place? Will it work? Time will tell. But we do know constantly switching things around hasn't. I'll say again, I didn't like the Sammy trade. I think when healthy he's a elite talent. I have to think there were things going on behind the scenes that we as fans are not aware of that influenced this decision. But to say we're tanking, that there's no plan, and all the stuff here the past few days? Please. The one true predictable thing about the Bills is that irrationality of fans anytime the team makes some kind of move. I'm not overreacting...All I said was I have read many people here that want to tank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 For what it's worth, it was very unlikely that Sammy was going to continue averaging 16 YPC in this offense. With the increase in targets, as well as the route tree and his responsibilities, I'd imagine he was going to be much closer to 12 than 16. Historically I don't think any WR has broken 16 YPC in this offense that was targeted with any regularity. Typically the primary target is in the 12-13 range, and the secondary is in the 13-15 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The over-reactions the past several days are mystifying. They're tanking, they have no plan, they don't care about winning, Beane and McD are not on the same page and now there's drama and intrigue, it's typical Bills stuff. I've seen all these things stated over the weekend, and they're all insane in my opinion. And I am one who did not like the Sammy trade. But let's just step back and consider what really is going on here: In the final analysis, we got weaker at one WR spot, assuming Sammy is completely healthy. A healthy Sammy is better than Matthews. No one is going to argue that. But we also added veterans in Matthews and Bolden, so if you compare to last year (when Sammy was out) the current group of WRs is certainly better than what we had last year. The running game should be no different, at least personnel wise. J Will looked good Thursday night and him and Tolbert should negate the Gillislee loss. And Shady is Shady. The only real concern with the offense right now is whether TT can be the guy (and that was the same question before and after the trade) and the health of Glenn, which is to me by far my biggest worry right now. We traded one CB for another, and Grimes and Darby with the zone scheme are a wash. We are better up front if for no other reason than the scheme. And we still have a question of two at LB and safety, which again was there before the trade. So what exactly happened the past few days to make us all think we are suddenly so much worse than we were last Thursday? Nothing, really. As for the stuff about them not having a plan, really? Their plan is to be competitive long term and short term. They said that. I covered the short term above, in that we really are no better or worse other than one WR spot than we were several days ago. And long term they have 6 picks in the top three rounds to use either as ammunition to get a top flight QB, or to add a lot of talent to the roster if say TT works out or they decide to get a guy like Cousins as a FA. Their plan is to build a team with the kind of talent and the kind of players they think they need to have a consistently winning team. What this franchise has needed desperately for years now is stability and a commitment to a way of playing, and a commitment from ownership to see that through. Read Peter King today; he says the same thing. Pegula hired two guys who have worked together, and that were highly regarded by many as young up and comers in their respective roles. I think Terry and Kim will be smart enough to give them the time needed to put their culture and methods in place? Will it work? Time will tell. But we do know constantly switching things around hasn't. I'll say again, I didn't like the Sammy trade. I think when healthy he's a elite talent. I have to think there were things going on behind the scenes that we as fans are not aware of that influenced this decision. But to say we're tanking, that there's no plan, and all the stuff here the past few days? Please. The one true predictable thing about the Bills is that irrationality of fans anytime the team makes some kind of move. Boldin is ancient, and Matthews is nothing more than a not so sure handed slot receiver. I'm fine if they wanna get worse in order to build through the draft next season, but that could've been accomplished without the best building block we had. Dump TT, trade Shady...those moves make more sense. What you did with Sammy was get the worst possible return for a top WR entering his prime and finally completely healed from the foot injury. This team is most certainly worse this season now. Nobody will respect the WR's beating them downfield, and nobody will be drawing safeties and coverage their way. I predict the pass and run game are both worse this season. Watkins will be missed within this offense...we already saw that with Taylor looking competent with him in the lineup and not so much without him. The Darby trade was fine because he is just another guy like the DB they replaced him with...no gripes with that, and no gripes with getting more draft picks. This be competitive crap this season is dumb and counter productive to us accumulating draft picks and looking to draft a franchise QB. Should've kept the building block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Because along with the Sabres all I read on here is tank....Its sad that you believe everything you read. You have to have an ability to debunk the spewing of trash that gets labeled as the truth around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Boldin is ancient, and Matthews is nothing more than a not so sure handed slot receiver. I'm fine if they wanna get worse in order to build through the draft next season, but that could've been accomplished without the best building block we had. Dump TT, trade Shady...those moves make more sense. What you did with Sammy was get the worst possible return for a top WR entering his prime and finally completely healed from the foot injury. This team is most certainly worse this season now. Nobody will respect the WR's beating them downfield, and nobody will be drawing safeties and coverage their way. I predict the pass and run game are both worse this season. Watkins will be missed within this offense...we already saw that with Taylor looking competent with him in the lineup and not so much without him. The Darby trade was fine because he is just another guy like the DB they replaced him with...no gripes with that, and no gripes with getting more draft picks. This be competitive crap this season is dumb and counter productive to us accumulating draft picks and looking to draft a franchise QB. Should've kept the building block. This team is not most certainly worse just because we took a downgrade at one WR spot. That is typical pessimistic Bills fan over-reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The over-reactions the past several days are mystifying. They're tanking, they have no plan, they don't care about winning, Beane and McD are not on the same page and now there's drama and intrigue, it's typical Bills stuff. I've seen all these things stated over the weekend, and they're all insane in my opinion. And I am one who did not like the Sammy trade. But let's just step back and consider what really is going on here: In the final analysis, we got weaker at one WR spot, assuming Sammy is completely healthy. A healthy Sammy is better than Matthews. No one is going to argue that. But we also added veterans in Matthews and Bolden, so if you compare to last year (when Sammy was out) the current group of WRs is certainly better than what we had last year. The running game should be no different, at least personnel wise. J Will looked good Thursday night and him and Tolbert should negate the Gillislee loss. And Shady is Shady. The only real concern with the offense right now is whether TT can be the guy (and that was the same question before and after the trade) and the health of Glenn, which is to me by far my biggest worry right now. We traded one CB for another, and Grimes and Darby with the zone scheme are a wash. We are better up front if for no other reason than the scheme. And we still have a question of two at LB and safety, which again was there before the trade. So what exactly happened the past few days to make us all think we are suddenly so much worse than we were last Thursday? Nothing, really. As for the stuff about them not having a plan, really? Their plan is to be competitive long term and short term. They said that. I covered the short term above, in that we really are no better or worse other than one WR spot than we were several days ago. And long term they have 6 picks in the top three rounds to use either as ammunition to get a top flight QB, or to add a lot of talent to the roster if say TT works out or they decide to get a guy like Cousins as a FA. Their plan is to build a team with the kind of talent and the kind of players they think they need to have a consistently winning team. What this franchise has needed desperately for years now is stability and a commitment to a way of playing, and a commitment from ownership to see that through. Read Peter King today; he says the same thing. Pegula hired two guys who have worked together, and that were highly regarded by many as young up and comers in their respective roles. I think Terry and Kim will be smart enough to give them the time needed to put their culture and methods in place? Will it work? Time will tell. But we do know constantly switching things around hasn't. I'll say again, I didn't like the Sammy trade. I think when healthy he's a elite talent. I have to think there were things going on behind the scenes that we as fans are not aware of that influenced this decision. But to say we're tanking, that there's no plan, and all the stuff here the past few days? Please. The one true predictable thing about the Bills is that irrationality of fans anytime the team makes some kind of move. Excellent post and well thought out. As you point out when the smoke is cleared the end result is that the team is not measurably diminished post transactions. The benefit of these two deals is that the team is adding picks that not only will put us in a better position to acquire a qb from next year's draft but those picks will also be used to bolster a thin roster. The stark reality that the believers aren't willing to accept is that this team as it was currently constructed was not a playoff team. The unrealistic believers were hoping that this season would demonstrate that TT was a capable enough qb that a franchise can build around. That has proven to be untrue for this qb who has been in this league for at least a half a dozen years. Whaley wanted to ditch him and start from scratch; McDermott was only willing to keep him as a bridge qb with a significantly reduced contract. What does that tell you about their belief in him? Too many people are portraying these deals as an indication of a complete demolition of the roster. That isn't what is happening here. It is a more systematic and thoughtful approach of reworking the roster so that it can be a serious team in the not too distant future. There were legitimate criticisms of Whaley of his patchwork approach to building a roster. His approach reflected a belief that this team was on the precipice toward success. That misjudgment wasn't true and was a major factor for his failure. Now we have a new regime that has a more conceptual approach to how it wants to build a roster. I consider it to be the right approach to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 @JoeBuscaglia New #Bills CB EJ Gaines is heading to the injury tent with an athletic trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 @JoeBuscaglia New #Bills CB EJ Gaines is heading to the injury tent with an athletic trainer. @SalSports EJ Gaines headed back to the field with his helmet. But now Adolphus Washington is going to the trainer's tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 @JoeBuscaglia New #Bills CB EJ Gaines is heading to the injury tent with an athletic trainer. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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