Magox Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Julio Jones and Dez Bryant sustained the same injury and both rebounded nicely. Sammy has now had a 2nd procedure and is now finally healthy after trying to play through it last season. I don't get this lack of production talk if you have done any kind of examination of his numbers. That's fine, you can use that as part of your rationization as part of the argument to keep him. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that this argument that you are providing is based off of potential parralels. I believe that if SW remained healthy he would be a pro bowl WR. I'm not convinced yet that he'd be top 3, but definitely top 7. The point is that many of the Opponents of the trade fail to acknowledge his durability issues as being part of the calculus in trade
Bill_with_it Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 I found Shady's quotes to be interesting. This one in particular - "Sammy's one of them guys where, he's been like a superstar his whole life," McCoy said. "He hasn't had a real older mentor that has done more than him that can really give him advice. It's one thing to take advice from older guys that he's probably better than or done more than. But a guy that can really talk about success on the field and off the field, and listen to ... that's something we've been developing even in my short period of time here" Maybe it's just me, but I kind of felt that McCoy was implying that Sammy never had any real interest in listening to or taking advise from any veteran players that were not as talented as he was. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that's what I got from it. Thats exactly how any rational adult would take it. Its par for the course in any profession.
thebandit27 Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 That's fine, you can use that as part of your rationization as part of the argument to keep him. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that this argument that you are providing is based off of potential parralels. I believe that if SW remained healthy he would be a pro bowl WR. I'm not convinced yet that he'd be top 3, but definitely top 7. The point is that many of the Opponents of the trade fail to acknowledge his durability issues as being part of the calculus in trade I definitely recognize that it played a role I simply believe that it was still a bad decision
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 I'm still wrapping my head around us being "at least" above average as a unit now. I'm curious where he actually ranks us. I'd have to go through all the teams (and maybe I'll do that when I have more time), but I can safely say top half in the NFL, which is the definition of above average.
Bill_with_it Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Julio Jones and Dez Bryant sustained the same injury and both rebounded nicely. Sammy has now had a 2nd procedure and is now finally healthy after trying to play through it last season. I don't get this lack of production talk if you have done any kind of examination of his numbers. How do you know hes finally healthy? Because he made through a glorified preseason scrimmage? Because he himsekf in a contract year said so? He has said he was healthy before...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 You said, "The per game average is the correct method for comparison with Matthews playing in 9 more games than Watkins." Then I showed how they have the same targets per game, but because Matthews plays more often his stats are a little better. You're moving the goal posts by re-focusing on YPC and TDs per game, but even considering that, my argument is on the "per game" part. Less games = less TDs, no? Let me stress that I agree it is obvious Watkins is a more explosive and dangerous WR. But Matthews is more productive overall because he's the more available and consistent WR. Watkins missed half the 2016 season and was clearly hampered by the injury when he did play. In the 1st two years that they both played Watkins outperformed Matthews and I'd venture a guess that he will this season too now that he's healthy: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattJo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 I can feel that as well. Sounds to me like Shady was saying there are no other stars on the Bills at least not on his level. So when asking advise on those sorts of issues ( like the social media thing or whatever) , Shady was the guy he listened to the most. Amazing the level of Sammy hate on this board and how it colors so many opinions about things which people really know next to nothing about. I don't get anything negative about SW out of McCoys comment there at all. Just talking about their relationship in his time here.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 How do you know hes finally healthy? Because he made through a glorified preseason scrimmage? Because he himsekf in a contract year said so? He has said he was healthy before... He's been 100% throughout training camp. Where have you been?
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 That's fine, you can use that as part of your rationization as part of the argument to keep him. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that this argument that you are providing is based off of potential parralels. I believe that if SW remained healthy he would be a pro bowl WR. I'm not convinced yet that he'd be top 3, but definitely top 7. The point is that many of the Opponents of the trade fail to acknowledge his durability issues as being part of the calculus in trade Of course it was a factor. But not a predictor of future seasons and the Bills had zero risk as they already had the player. Therefore the potential payoff was greater than the potential risk ( he gets injured again and they don't re-sign him) . That's why the move is a bad one and obviously just a matter of PR for McBeane. Look bad now but ship SW to some far off NFC outpost, or keep him and he produces and the Bills look like complete idiots by letting him go. Just protecting their egos.
Bill_with_it Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 He's been 100% throughout training camp. Where have you been? No he hasnt. And this is just one that happened 7 days agohttps://www.google.com/amp/billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/06/watch-bills-avoid-scare-after-sammy-watkins-appears-to-aggravate-foot/amp/ Where have you been?
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 He's been 100% throughout training camp. Where have you been? They also had him on a limited basis in OTAs coming into camp. I would not have traded him. But it is not unreasonable for a team to be a bit leery of reinjury given his history.
thebandit27 Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 No he hasnt. And this is just one that happened 7 days ago https://www.google.com/amp/billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/06/watch-bills-avoid-scare-after-sammy-watkins-appears-to-aggravate-foot/amp/ Where have you been? He hasn't missed a practice in TC. What, exactly, motivates your aversion to facts?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 No he hasnt. And this is just one that happened 7 days ago https://www.google.com/amp/billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/06/watch-bills-avoid-scare-after-sammy-watkins-appears-to-aggravate-foot/amp/ Where have you been? He rolled his ankle and didn't even miss one practice.
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Of course it was a factor. But not a predictor of future seasons and the Bills had zero risk as they already had the player. Therefore the potential payoff was greater than the potential risk ( he gets injured again and they don't re-sign him) . That's why the move is a bad one and obviously just a matter of PR for McBeane. Look bad now but ship SW to some far off NFC outpost, or keep him and he produces and the Bills look like complete idiots by letting him go. Just protecting their egos. If he did get hurt it would have left the Bills with nothing. With the trade they get another starting WR and a draft pick. Not saying I wanted the trade, but I can see their thought process.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 They also had him on a limited basis in OTAs coming into camp. I would not have traded him. But it is not unreasonable for a team to be a bit leery of reinjury given his history. As a precaution at OTAs certainly, but not since camp at SJF opened. He's been full go every day. Given the successful history of players who undergo 2nd procedures for Jones fractures, I would have kept him around in anticipation of acquiring a new franchise QB next season.
Bill_with_it Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 He hasn't missed a practice in TC. What, exactly, motivates your aversion to facts? Clearly you cant read one guy said hes been 100% in training camps. To whcih I countered with just one article that happened 7 days ago to which he left the field for a while. What motivates your complete understanding of the english language.
thebandit27 Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) He rolled his ankle and didn't even miss one practice. Just don't. This poster is just messing with you. Clearly you cant read one guy said hes been 100% in training camps. To whcih I countered with just one article that happened 7 days ago to which he left the field for a while. What motivates your complete understanding of the english language.Re-read that last sentence I went to school I'm sure there will come a day when something you post is finally proven to be correct...I'll raise a glass to you on that fine day. But today ain't it Edited August 13, 2017 by thebandit27
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 As a precaution at OTAs certainly, but not since camp at SJF opened. He's been full go every day. Given the successful history of players who undergo 2nd procedures for Jones fractures, I would have kept him around in anticipation of acquiring a new franchise QB next season. Agree. But my sense is there are things behind the scenes we are not aware of nor will be aware of.
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Just don't. This poster is just messing with you. Re-read that last sentence I went to school All my favorite reasonable posters are getting sucked into this guys silliness
Bill_with_it Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 As a precaution at OTAs certainly, but not since camp at SJF opened. He's been full go every day. Given the successful history of players who undergo 2nd procedures for Jones fractures, I would have kept him around in anticipation of acquiring a new franchise QB next season. No he hasnt been a full go. Mcdermott stated that they have managed his repa and brought him along gently. Where are you getting this bs from?
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