ganesh Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 The price paid in draft currency to select Watkins insured that trading the player would never produce value in return. The only way the Bills could come close to value on investment was if Watkins became a star WR that produced on the field. The best course of action was to pick up SW 5th year option and see what happened in 2017 and 2018. A trade only guaranteed that two first round picks ( and now quite possibly a2nd round pick) were wasted. That is the outcome chosen by the Bills brain trust. But what everyone is forgetting is that the cost of picking that option was quite high...about $13M....Now the management team has to decide if that was worth the ROI. It wasn't!
Magox Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 From my recollections, SW was an ok teammate. Never really caused any troubles aside from a twitter/fb rant or two, which really isn't "trouble" perse. He seemed to put his head down and was a professional on and off the field. Didn't really display any sort of leadership skills that I heard of but wasn't a pariah either. However, it does it appear from all accounts that Matthews is a really good locker room type of guy who was a leader on his team willing to bend over backwards for his teammates. Throw that in with his good production, I would say that this is the sort of thing that factored into McD's/Bean's decision.
WideRightRevenge Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Why would this matter...all teams build through the draft...the NFL makes billions in revenue and much of that is shared equally plus we have one of the wealthiest owners in the league. The small market line is a bunch of crap Let's see...Buffalo or southern California.......tough choice Hey Nucci ..check out this link to 2016 NFL Franchise Value from Forbes ... take a look at who is #32 ... surprise .. Buffalo ... not complaining .. just stating reality ... so sorry Forbes appears to be full of crap too in your logic. https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall Less than half the revenue of the #1 Cowboys and less than 10% of Net Income ... so there's your revenue sharing
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) From my recollections, SW was an ok teammate. Never really caused any troubles aside from a twitter/fb rant or two, which really isn't "trouble" perse. He seemed to put his head down and was a professional on and off the field. Didn't really display any sort of leadership skills that I heard of but wasn't a pariah either. However, it does it appear from all accounts that Matthews is a really good locker room type of guy who was a leader on his team willing to bend over backwards for his teammates. Throw that in with his good production, I would say that this is the sort of thing that factored into McD's/Bean's decision. The only thing I remember is a poster here a month or so ago saying he talked to a player or heard from a player (can't remember) that they felt the offense ran better without Sammy because the QB didn't always feel pressured to target him. Don't shoot the messenger btw - it is just a random post that I remember and it kind of stuck in my head. I guess, if true, it would be kind of like when Megatron left Detroit and - though I don't watch a lot of Lions football - I understand from casually paying attention that some Lions fans felt the offense actually improved because Stafford was just spreading the ball around. Again, I know people are very sensitive about this topic and I'm not saying this to be true, it is just stuff I read and thought it was relevant to the discussion. Edited August 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 The only thing I remember is a poster here a month or so ago saying he talked to a player or heard from a player (can't remember) that they felt the offense ran better without Sammy because the QB didn't always feel pressured to target him. Don't shoot the messenger btw - it is just a random post that I remember and it kind of stuck in my head. I guess, if true, it would be kind of like when Megatron left Detroit and - though I don't watch a lot of Lions football - I understand from casually paying attention that some Lions fans felt the offense actually improved because Stafford was just spreading the ball around. Again, I know people are very sensitive about this topic and I'm not saying this to be true, it is just stuff I read and thought it was relevant to the discussion. I'd say I get it if only he was actually getting forced looks. In the context of what we have seen -- it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
HappyDays Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Amazing how many fans twist and turn in attempt to convince themselves that the latest WTF moment is actually a good thing for the team. I'm as critical of Watkins as anyone else had ever been but only a fool believes this was OBD being held hostage by a player with low "signability". This is the NFL the owners and GMs have all the leverage, throw around a few extra guaranteed dollars and players start singing tunes of praise. It's a slap in the face to fans. "Run deep" "All in"... the next slogan should be a little more direct..."you're drunk and stupid just get in here and buy some hot dogs" Do you still want to make the Mike Glennon bet? I'm in. Edited August 13, 2017 by HappyDays
nucci Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Hey Nucci ..check out this link to 2016 NFL Franchise Value from Forbes ... take a look at who is #32 ... surprise .. Buffalo ... not complaining .. just stating reality ... so sorry Forbes appears to be full of crap too in your logic. https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall Less than half the revenue of the #1 Cowboys and less than 10% of Net Income ... so there's your revenue sharing I didn't say all revenue was shared but the Bills get plenty from TV and have an owner worth over $4B.....and there is a salary cap....The Bills have enough money to compete with the big market teams...that was my point regarding market size
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Good point. Hotties of all types. It's likely my age showing, but few places compete with LA to prove the point that no matter how beautiful a woman is, someone, somewhere is sick of her schitt. If you like looking at women who need to be looked at, and who will go out of their way to ensure as many people pay attention to them as possible, then LA is your place. But fair warning, once they open their mouths and try to use words... Incidentally, I watched Sammy interviewed in the booth during the game, and he sounded like he was still trying to figure out what the hell happened. It'll be interesting to see how he performs here. Otherwise, he's gone and all the whining in the world isn't going to change that.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Has everyone calmed down yet?I don't like it anymore than I did 48 hours ago (or whatever it was).
BringBackOrton Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I don't like it anymore than I did 48 hours ago (or whatever it was). Agreed. If we sign Matthews for $10M, this deal was awful. Edited August 13, 2017 by jmc12290
Rubes Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) It's a tough one. I like what they did with the draft picks, and hopefully that will translate into a top QB next year. But I think Sammy is a supreme talent and really liked watching him play when healthy. He made this offense better. But I also get why they did it. Overall I prefer having Sammy vs. no Sammy plus draft picks, but I can see their logic at least. Edited August 13, 2017 by Rubes
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 I don't like it anymore than I did 48 hours ago (or whatever it was). Liking it or not wasn't the question Have you calmed down?
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I don't like it anymore than I did 48 hours ago (or whatever it was). I liked the trade, and I will stand by that belief. It doesn't mean I don't have reservations now that I've had time to think. I'm extremely confident that we aren't losing that much in W column. My biggest concern is the fact that we may have created another hole in the roster. I have criticized this franchise for years about letting players go only to fill that hole in the next draft. It would be hypocritical for me not to remember that. Boldin is not going to be here for the long haul. Jones is a rookie, we have no clue what type of player Jones will become. Zay could become a star or the next Josh Reed. I would have felt even more confident in this trade if Jones had played a year to show he can produce at the NFL level. A great deal of pressure is on Zay Jones this season. If he doesn't produce we will have another position to retool in the offseason. I still like the trade, but that doesn't mean I don't have slight reservations. Everything comes with pros and cons. Edited August 13, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 Liking it or not wasn't the question Have you calmed down? Nope
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 The only thing I remember is a poster here a month or so ago saying he talked to a player or heard from a player (can't remember) that they felt the offense ran better without Sammy because the QB didn't always feel pressured to target him. Don't shoot the messenger btw - it is just a random post that I remember and it kind of stuck in my head. I guess, if true, it would be kind of like when Megatron left Detroit and - though I don't watch a lot of Lions football - I understand from casually paying attention that some Lions fans felt the offense actually improved because Stafford was just spreading the ball around. Again, I know people are very sensitive about this topic and I'm not saying this to be true, it is just stuff I read and thought it was relevant to the discussion. I was wondering the same this this morning and had a look. Stafford had a slightly lower QBR in '16 vs '15, but more yards and much better than '12-'14. the team improved to 9-7 and a playoff berth over 7-9 while losing arguably the most physically gifted WR in history. I wonder if Detroit fans felt that was remotely possible when CJ first dropped the bombshell he was hanging 'em up
Wayne Cubed Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 haha. I'm not a fan of the trade at this point in time. But now that it's mentioned, I follow most of the Bills players on twitter and didn't see anything from anyone thanking Sammy or acting sad that he's gone (unless I missed it). Maybe meaningless but just compared to what happened with Jmatt. Shady has said something to Sammy. Haven't seen anyone else but I'm not really looking.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 The only thing I remember is a poster here a month or so ago saying he talked to a player or heard from a player (can't remember) that they felt the offense ran better without Sammy because the QB didn't always feel pressured to target him. Don't shoot the messenger btw - it is just a random post that I remember and it kind of stuck in my head. I guess, if true, it would be kind of like when Megatron left Detroit and - though I don't watch a lot of Lions football - I understand from casually paying attention that some Lions fans felt the offense actually improved because Stafford was just spreading the ball around. Again, I know people are very sensitive about this topic and I'm not saying this to be true, it is just stuff I read and thought it was relevant to the discussion. ....no need to shoot....not sure if it ran better without him or just removed the SW option from TT's choices....he does have a tendency to lock on to a handful of guys.......it's incumbent upon Dennison to develop a diversified passing game utilizing RB's, TE's & WR's.......the shorter stuff should cut down on TT's "process the entire field" time, with consistent completions helping his confidence and rhythm......and the long ball WILL be there....Stafford is a good example.......
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 But what everyone is forgetting is that the cost of picking that option was quite high...about $13M....Now the management team has to decide if that was worth the ROI. It wasn't! That's not a big number at all. Totally manageable for a team without a star QB. It's not exactly like the Bills are coming off a SB win and need to make tough decisions about who to pay. That number is reasonable for a #1 WR and 2017 is still underSWs rookie deal. The potential payoff if Sammy is healthy and can produce is much greater than what the Bills stood to lose if he did not ( nothing). Using $ to excuse missteps by the FO is accepting the spin from OBD. This was an awful move as no big investment would have been due on Sammy until after the 2018 season. Plenty of time to evaluate him. The McBeane tandem look like chumps right now. The only thing I remember is a poster here a month or so ago saying he talked to a player or heard from a player (can't remember) that they felt the offense ran better without Sammy because the QB didn't always feel pressured to target him. Don't shoot the messenger btw - it is just a random post that I remember and it kind of stuck in my head. I guess, if true, it would be kind of like when Megatron left Detroit and - though I don't watch a lot of Lions football - I understand from casually paying attention that some Lions fans felt the offense actually improved because Stafford was just spreading the ball around. Again, I know people are very sensitive about this topic and I'm not saying this to be true, it is just stuff I read and thought it was relevant to the discussion. Lol ... yes the Bills will be better off without their most dynamic WR because now theirQB won't have to throw the ball to him! So glad the Bills QBs can breathe a sigh of relief now.
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 13, 2017 Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Posted this in the other trade thread, but, in a vacuum, $10 million per year for a guy who will usually be in the line-up and give you about 900 yards and 5-6 TDs is good value. Edit: Also, unsure how Matthews/Jones/Boldin seems like anything worse than an above average top 3 WRs. Edited August 13, 2017 by JohnBonhamRocks
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