BadLandsMeanie Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) I would like the Bills to wait until they can run a football business correctly, before they branch out into the airplane business. I would not get on board a plane run by The Buffalo Bills. Next time they "clean up their mistakes", I don't want it to be me! Edited August 9, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie
Marv's Neighbor Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 I guarantee that these planes are from some desert parking location. Why were they there? Because they're too expensive to maintain and operate. If they are based somewhere in NE, they better have hangar space. As we know, the NFL season weather starts out nice but by November, it can get pretty nasty. It can take forever to de-ice a cold 767 that has an accumulation of snow and ice, and hasn't flown since last week's game. . They will not be "making money" by year two because they will be 2 years older, and that will drive even more service and maintenance issues. Can this be written off, maybe, but will it be worth it? Airplanes are a lot like boats. They can be fun and enjoyable BUT they are not cheap to operat, and store. Airplanes especially, because you constantly have the FAA to deal with, and satisfy. If the FAA is not happy, they pull your certificate and you have a very big paperweight, with a nice paint job, parked on the ramp. Catering will be very important. Many locations don't have flight kitchens anymore. These guys are used to eating and partying, and that will be a challenge. I remember a 49er's charter, several years ago. They played Seattle, took off for SFO, and radioed back that the flight kitchen hadn't fully cooked the meat entrees. No time to do that on an 1;45 flight, so either enjoy meat on a stick, or no entree! Can't overlook cabin cleaning after the flight. NFL charters get absolutely trashed inside, far worse than what you would see on an airliner. Cabin cleaning after an NFL charter is horrendous. When they operate into another city they are frequently ground handled by a FBO (fixed base operator). These kids have minimal experience loading/unloading a 767. A couple seasons ago, I watched a FBO ground crew trying to open a cargo door on a Delta 767-300. Problem was, it was on the L side of the plane and had been "blocked" by Delta. These bozos were pushing the boom of a belt loader against the blocked door, trying to open it. There's a lot more to look at than just looking at a price, buying a 767 or two, and imagining that they will somehow save a team a whole lot of $$.
sherpa Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) As has been pointed out, there are significant expenses involved in owning an airplane vs chartering one, so you can't simply subtract the cost (10), minus the normal charter season cost, (4), and claim that all you have to do is make up the difference, (6), and you are in the money. I have no idea where they are going to get their crew. There are not a lot of 767 people hanging around, and you are now going to take on their training expenses. If I was Kraft, I'd be extremely involved in making sure he was getting good folks. Basing it in Providence makes sense for the Pats, but not for a chartered 767. Unless they have already structured agreements, like Caribbean trips from there during the offseason, there are going to be a lot of ferry flights to get it where it needs to be, and even then, it is extremely expensive to for it and its crew to sit around for the return, so there's another ferry. Anyway, these charter things are really inefficient and expensive. That's why the airlines are getting out of them. With the total scheduled airline structure in place and layers and layers of protection, an airline makes sense. If there's something that goes wrong in this operation, maintenance, de-icing as Marv's neighbor pointed out, (would result in a huge delay since they couldn't rely on an airline's system), a pilot gets sick on Sunday morning or afternoon, or countless other things, there will be few protections. I, for one, can't wait until TAWMY 1 gets stuck somewhere. Edited August 9, 2017 by sherpa
Saxum Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Patriots become first NFL team to buy their own jets to travel to games Does this mean if the plane crashes and burns the only real loss is the plane's crew? Did Vlad ever give back that SB ring he took? Took? It was fair payment for lending of KGB for spying!
zow2 Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Nice plane(s) but let's face it, this is a total ego move by Kraft. yeah he wanted to see those 5 Lombardi trophies on the tail of the plane. A football team uses a 767 for what...11-12 road trips per year? 10 if it's a normal team like the Bills. The maintenance, the upkeep, the staff...all the little nuances of owning large planes. This cannot be a money maker. It feeds their egos though.
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Dreamliners or 787s You know how I know you are not an aviator.... If my favorite band can have a 747. Ed Force One is a rental. Edited August 9, 2017 by BUFFALOKIE
Albwan Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Screw that..give 'em the bus from Slap Shot! LOL ...this is what came to my mind immediatly, the bills broke down bus...
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 @albertbreer Seahawks actually had their own team plane for a while, and they decided to ditch it b/c they were losing too much money on it. That too was a rental.
papazoid Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 can't wait to see the interior when jerry jones gets one.
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 I expected the Pegula's to do this once they purchased the Bills. It only makes financial sense when you factor in the Sabres charter costs as well. Would not be shocked to see them do this. Cost sharing is a good plan. Again, please explain how the Pats are going to make money from owning their own plane? Tax write off. As one in the mix and getting paid for it, I advise people to never conjecture about corporate earnings and income tax unless they are paid to do so... It's always amusing though... Yup.
IslandBillsFan Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Sorry I am in a rush so I didn't read the whole thread but as mentioned many teams have/charter planes. Specifically, I remember the Dolphins plane in Miami. It was painted with Dolphins logos. Maybe it was only for coaches and staff.
mjd1001 Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 I'm surprised this isn't more common. I agree. I would have thought most teams would have done this already.
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 If it ain't a Boeing, I ain't going....inless it's a Gulfstream ;-)
sherpa Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Easy when planes not in use by team they are leased or chartered. Tell me some Pats fan with money wont charter a Patriots plane to say fly to somewhere. Also can lease to basketball, Hockey teams. All first class seating for players (something you dont get on Charters from United) etc The first class seating will limit your governmant lease capabilies. However say its leased to deploy a group overseas easy to reconfigure seating on these planes If it was that easy, everyone would do it. I've done a few charters, including the (New Jersey Nets) to London, and all the players sat in first. Reconfiguring isn't nearly as easy as you suggest, nor is "overseas," to use your term. Flying "overseas" requires an ETOPS certified airplane and crew. ETOPS means extended overwater equipment and pilot qualifications. Very, very expensive. Think of 1.5 times the cost. I have no problem with your logic and intent. I have a significant disagreement with how much money you think this costs over normal domestic Sat/Sunday charters. Their expenses will be huge. Sorry I am in a rush so I didn't read the whole thread but as mentioned many teams have/charter planes. Specifically, I remember the Dolphins plane in Miami. It was painted with Dolphins logos. Maybe it was only for coaches and staff. What Dolphins plane? They always used American, at least for the last 16 years. They got a normal 757.
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Every single NFL owner SHOULD be able to afford their own transportation - in style. Anyone have a guess what 80 (team + staff?) First class seats 8 x per year costs? I dont. But I bet my company pays more for travel per year than any NFL team (per person basis). Anf we are a relatively small company. 150 employees with about 40 regular travelors. Edited August 9, 2017 by BUFFALOKIE
Marv's Neighbor Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Sorry I am in a rush so I didn't read the whole thread but as mentioned many teams have/charter planes. Specifically, I remember the Dolphins plane in Miami. It was painted with Dolphins logos. Maybe it was only for coaches and staff. Just because planes are painted in a teams colors does not mean the teams own them. US Airways/American has several airbus A-319's painted for; The Panthers, Steelers,etc. They fly for the airlines all week and get positioned to carry the teams to/from games. The Seahawks started this late 90's, when the had an Alaska Air 727 painted as Seahawk 1. Again, not owned by the team. The paint job was a provisoin of the teams contract with the airline. AirTran used to have some too but I doubt if Southwest followed through with that.
sherpa Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Not the Dolphins. American never painted an airplane for a team. American had a history of polished aluminum only. No paint, and would not do that. I made a bit of quality of life money off those charters, so I'm quite familiar.
buffaloboyinATL Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 2 20 year old 767's is NO bargain! Parts and maintenance will be a nightmare. Especially if they have a problem in a city where whomever they have contract(s) with has no presence. True they could take parts off one to cover the other BUT you have to get the parts from one location to the other. NASCAR is getting away from owning their own planes, and they fly more often than any NFL team. why, just the cost of hiring someone to keep the tires on the landing gear properly inflated will be astronomical and we know they don't have anyone on staff up to the task.
CowgirlsFan Posted August 10, 2017 Posted August 10, 2017 can't wait to see the interior when jerry jones gets one. I think he's happy with just his helicopter right now.
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