QB Footwork and Boldin Discussion

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I somewhat agree, Tyrod looks totally different when sammy is on the field, he obviously trust him and let's it rip. He just needs to do that with everyone.

 

...therein lies the key....good point.....lock on and this passing game goes nowhere.....damn well better spread the wealth.....think DC's could be tuned in???..............

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On this weeks podcast we discuss the signing of Boldin and how it will help the passing game. Specifically on third downs and in the middle of the field.

 

Then we discuss Dennison's comments about anticipatory throws and Tyrod's footwork in the west coast offense with diagrams.

 

 

 

Nice work! Congrats on the rebranding

[FLFan]

The challenges of timing and footwork were more EJ's problem than they are Tyrod's. EJs mechanics were horrible. He always looked like he was aiming darts, not throwing a football.

 

Tyrod's problem is mental. When he first became a starter the Coaches told him to avoid throwing picks at all costs...and so he did. Now that he has gained more experience as a starter, he needs to learn to trust his instincts and throw the receiver open.

 

My Two Cents

This is very much on point. To me, the previous. I coaching staff ever challenged him to be more than he has already shown he was. The offense was designed "around his skill sets" without ever really trying to push more out of it. We have seen the results, both good and bad. What I like about Dennison's approach is that he is expecting more, teaching him to be more. He may or may not be capable. We will see. At least the days of limiting our offensive thinking because of perceived limitations seem to be over. If Taylor can combine his natural abilities with this more disciplined approach we may have something special. If not then time to move on. Edited August 9, 2017 by MDFan

[NoSaint]

 

Really you think there are fans who are oblivious to that? Wow. Maybe I am just a geek but I can't enjoy watching a game unless I really get into the technical and tactical aspects of how it is played.

 

I will listen to your podcast this afternoon while I am at work...... really enjoyed last weeks.

Why does that surprise you? I'd venture half this board couldn't begin to speak to it and among the half that can only a handful truly get it at a high level (not I)

 

And this is a sample of those committing the most time and energy to the game. Many average fans barely understand the basic rules yet alone coordinating footwork with route trees. And I don't mean that as any knock to fans.

[BADOLBILZ]

Why does that surprise you? I'd venture half this board couldn't begin to speak to it and among the half that can only a handful truly get it at a high level (not I)

 

And this is a sample of those committing the most time and energy to the game. Many average fans barely understand the basic rules yet alone coordinating footwork with route trees. And I don't mean that as any knock to fans.

 

 

Yeah c'mon Gunner........most fans are not interested in that much detail.

 

Hence the death of a great show like Edge NFL matchup.

 

But glad to see the younger generation getting much more interested in this stuff.

 

A bit tougher sell for the TSW age demographic, unfortunately.

[3rdand12]

 

Really you think there are fans who are oblivious to that? Wow. Maybe I am just a geek but I can't enjoy watching a game unless I really get into the technical and tactical aspects of how it is played.

 

I will listen to your podcast this afternoon while I am at work...... really enjoyed last weeks.

Tons of them. You are such a geek. That's not a bad thing Bill, but you Are in the minority in regard to technical aspects. And the few others here?

We know who you are and are watching.

 

So there is that, then.

I have always been delighted with your efforts Erik, another fine addition to the knowledge baseline. Winching it up a notch for us regular folks.

Edited August 10, 2017 by 3rdand12

[HardyBoy]

 

 

Yeah c'mon Gunner........most fans are not interested in that much detail.

 

Hence the death of a great show like Edge NFL matchup.

 

But glad to see the younger generation getting much more interested in this stuff.

 

A bit tougher sell for the TSW age demographic, unfortunately.

I don't know, there are a lot of people on here that know a lot about football. I think if you played, a lot of that stuff seems obvious, but if you never played organized football, it's a totally and very interesting foreign language (I played lots of sports, but never football).

 

I think part of it is the Bills have been disappointing for so long people aren't interested in nuance at this point. Once they start winning, I bet a lot of interesting posts with nuance from some really knowledgeable people won't devolve into fire everyone/sully said anger expressions, but for now the nuance is going to live on one way media (blog posts/podcasts).

[billykaykay]

 

Really you think there are fans who are oblivious to that? Wow. Maybe I am just a geek but I can't enjoy watching a game unless I really get into the technical and tactical aspects of how it is played.

 

I will listen to your podcast this afternoon while I am at work...... really enjoyed last weeks.

Yeah, there are fans who are "oblivious to that". Many fans are women who enjoy watching football & have no idea what a five step drop is.

[3rdand12]

uggggh I knew I misspelled it!

i have been speeling it incorrectly for years. each time i allow spell check to fix it. Weirdist thing. I still have this quirk with that one word.

 

And it is used correctly here.

Taylor needs to learn some dance skills then just let it happen

I hate his questions, too. It's as though he wants to show off what an insider he is. They're stupid.

 

It IS the norm - the writers don't know football. For that matter, the great majority of fans don't, either. With a very few exceptions, we don't understand the details of what the players are taught to do. The details are boring to most people, and writers and announcers that dig into the details don't last long, because the fans don't read or listen to that stuff for very long.

details and experience, good solid writing and personal content have been handed to the bipolar entertainment committee.

which is staffed via a number of public polls

This is very much on point. To me, the previous. I coaching staff ever challenged him to be more than he has already shown he was. The offense was designed "around his skill sets" without ever really trying to push more out of it. We have seen the results, both good and bad. What I like about Dennison's approach is that he is expecting more, teaching him to be more. He may or may not be capable. We will see. At least the days of limiting our offensive thinking because of perceived limitations seem to be over. If Taylor can combine his natural abilities with this more disciplined approach we may have something special. If not then time to move on.

i "like" both you and SoCal's take here.

[GunnerBill]

Your last sentence isn't entirely true.

 

Shannahan roots aren't through walshs WCO

 

They are not apart of each others coaching trees in any way and Walsh had a very pure WCO. Shannahan and all his disciples favor a more MOBILE WCO where the QB can waggle out of the pocket

 

Shannahan LOVED mobile QBs

 

Elway- extremely mobile

 

Jake Plummer- extremely mobile

 

Brian griese- good mobility

 

Jay Cutler- very mobile

 

Redskins he brought over mcnabb- very mobile

 

Drafted RGIII- very mobile

 

They do employ similar concepts but shannahan did not build his offense on walshs. They both employ WCO concepts but Shannahan is heavy on the zone run and bootleg and shotgun neither of which Walsh was big on

When Shanny got to San Fran Walsh had already retired but they were still runninh lots of his concepts and basically those same concepts are still there in Shanahan / Kubiak / Dennison's offense.

 

Now you are right that this scheme is not just Bill Walsh WCO but the timing routes absolutely have their roots there.

I think they were discussing something a little different than the common footwork and timing of passes goes. They were talking about how your feet were the inner clock and not your eyes or your head. And the placement of your feet was the trigger to throw, not seeing the break or the receiver or the anticipation of where the receiver would be. Like trust your feet not your head.

My comment was not directed at Erik just to be clear. Really enjoyed the pod cast. It was directed at the question to Tyrod in the press conference by someone who is not a casual fan but actually gets paid to talk about the NFL.

[Buffalo716]

When Shanny got to San Fran Walsh had already retired but they were still runninh lots of his concepts and basically those same concepts are still there in Shanahan / Kubiak / Dennison's offense.

Now you are right that this scheme is not just Bill Walsh WCO but the timing routes absolutely have their roots there.

100% agree with the timing aspect .

 

That is what everybody takes away from Walshs WCO... pure timing /rhythm routes

 

Beautiful thing to watch when done correctly

[cover1]

I agree with you to a point, I have no clue what is happening in football, but I find learning how and why extremely interesting and I think the growing success of Cover1 shows I am right.

 

The future is in the data, granularity and nuance. People who love that, they will be driving advertising revenue, both within those organizations through their roles, and through their wallets, because that is the future and where the money is.

 

People are sick of manufactured news and pre-written cliche story lines (see espn).

 

I don't believe that espn is struggling due to people being able to access highlights instantly...I am not going to 10 different websites to watch a 30 second highlights. They are a compiler of different sources (like the tbd main page is), amd that will always be valuable. ESPN is struggling because they create fake, sensationalized stories that they talk about non-stop, and it got old, and they deliver those stories through fluff straw man manufactured outrage takes. This goes against what cord cutters want (I cut the cord in 2012, and the thought of having to pay espn for the level of quality of 85% of their non-live sport broadcasts is more than enough motivation to keep me away from cable for good).

 

LeBetard show got where it was by being different, so will Cover1.

 

People are sick of hot takes, we want nuance, and excellence in our niche, and that niche is large. Cover1 delivers that, and am really pumped to see them growing and gaining traction!

 

Appreciate all of the responses in this thread but this one really caught my eye. Not because of the kind words (Thank you sooo much), but because it is spot on. This was our first season at training camp as part of the media and it was a fun ride. The Bills PR and Media department were completely accommodating. Anytime we wanted to interview someone, they set it up. Any questions, our POC was all over it. But the impressions that our team came away with at camp was that most of the media doesn't care. There are exceptions, most of the media appeared as if they were going through the motions. Reporters had their storyline or paradigm for their story. They have seen this before, heard this before and some don't even attend certain portions of camp to even hear or see what is happening. This is surprising and not at the same time. When I hear the negativity or pessimism shine through in their stories, I am not surprised now. It all makes sense. But it is almost like they have tuned out the people who they should be listening to, the fans. They know that fans are sick of the same hot takes and boisterous statements. They want in depth, analysis like we provide. That is part of the reason I started Cover 1 and Grandstand Sports Network. I see that people want substance and that the times are changing from your traditional commentary piece on Sunday morning. People in those positions know that most fans don't know what Dennison meant by listening to his feet, heck most old school journalists don't either. But it is their job to not only report but to educate. If the writer doesn't know what he meant, ask further questions, read a book about West Coast offenses, google some of the terms I mean there is no excuse not to educate your fanbase. Instead its the same story over and over again. Taylor has to be better from the pocket, get the ball out on time. Yeah, you should report that, but WHY or HOW does he do that? That's the way I approach articles and content. It's detailed and longwinded at times but the better educated our fanbase is, the more we appreciate the game of Football and what these guys have to know in order to entertain us on Sundays. I truly appreciate all of the love and support TBD has given me over the years. If you haven't done so, subscribe to Locked On Bills on iTunes that is where you will find Nate Geary, Kevin Massare and I, 3-4x a week talking Bills. Cover1.net is not going anywhere, all of our content will still be found there. But there are some big things on the horizon, Thanks again!!

Nice work! Congrats on the rebranding

Thank you! ONLY the pod tho, keep visiting Cover1.net hahahahaa

Tons of them. You are such a geek. That's not a bad thing Bill, but you Are in the minority in regard to technical aspects. And the few others here?

We know who you are and are watching.

 

So there is that, then.

I have always been delighted with your efforts Erik, another fine addition to the knowledge baseline. Winching it up a notch for us regular folks.

Appreciate it!

This is really interesting. Thank you!

I gotchu YOLO!

Edited August 10, 2017 by cover1

[CommonCents]

I mean, I do think the specifics about it is a novelty to the average fan. Most people don't understand the mechanics that goes into a timing pass, concept or play design. It is very methodical and I am sure most fans just think its just a QB dropping back and throwing it, when actually the depth of the drop 3-5-7 actually matches the depth of the route AND the progression of receivers.

Not if your last name is Roman.

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't know, there are a lot of people on here that know a lot about football. I think if you played, a lot of that stuff seems obvious, but if you never played organized football, it's a totally and very interesting foreign language (I played lots of sports, but never football).

 

I think part of it is the Bills have been disappointing for so long people aren't interested in nuance at this point. Once they start winning, I bet a lot of interesting posts with nuance from some really knowledgeable people won't devolve into fire everyone/sully said anger expressions, but for now the nuance is going to live on one way media (blog posts/podcasts).

 

Yeah I've long been a believer that prolonged losing dumbs down a fanbase due to general disinterest. It's natural.

 

But sometimes it can pique the interest in certain people who really want to know why the team struggles and how it can change things.

 

It's not an absolute either way but I think extremes of winning and losing dull the fans interest in the detail.

[John from Riverside]

 

Yeah I've long been a believer that prolonged losing dumbs down a fanbase due to general disinterest. It's natural.

 

But sometimes it can pique the interest in certain people who really want to know why the team struggles and how it can change things.

 

It's not an absolute either way but I think extremes of winning and losing dull the fans interest in the detail.

I think this is accurate

 

At some point a large amount of the fanbase just get so jaded that they dont care HOW they win they just want them to win

 

Understandble

 

Personally I like to know the reasons why they are losing and take each different season as a new start and chance....when people actually get into those discussions I tend to shut up and read more.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I thought this was an interesting read on kind of the meaning behind a West coast offense: http://smartfootball.com/gameplanning/can-the-west-coast-offense-work-anywhere-besides-the-nfl#sthash.i1cqmN3t.dpbs

 

Less plays, more mastery, bump the tempo.

[dave mcbride]

Great stuff. Thanks!