Buffalo716 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) Being an NFL QB is arguably the hardest job in all of professional sports. What makes it super difficult are all the little nuances that a top tier QB must possess and develop. Some are more innate than others. A nuance which is very innate and hardest to teach is the ability to STEP UP into the pocket naturally. Even when it is murky and there are lots of bodies around you must have the innate ability to slide up through traffic. (See Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Jim Kelly) you either have it or you don't. TT can improve but this is one nuance he Must work on. He will mostly always scramble outside the tackle box for more time instead of stepping up and staying in the pocket. But I did see some nuances in TT game the first year and he improved and developed them through last year. What I saw was a QB who studied cornerbacks intently. When running 9 routes he would wait intentionally until he had his burner on usually the slowest or worst CB on the field. He was patient checking it down until he had the favorable matchup he wanted and then he executed the deep ball. Supremely smart Another nuance that was easily identifiable was his ability to feel and avoid the first pass rusher. While I already said that TT doesn't and will never do it like a traditional pocket QB he does have a "sixth sense" when it comes to feeling the pass rush and avoiding the first pass rusher. Without this nuance you are Blaine Gabbert or EJ spin left out of every situation Manuel TT has good accuracy at all levels of the field. He reads a zone defense well and locates the soft spot in the zone. Sometimes hesitant to pull the trigger but he knows how to break down a zone . What I saw him develop last year: It was a good surprise to see TT utilize the pump fake more last season. Again this is a nuance you can develop and it was a good sign to see from TT. QBs either utilize it or they don't. The bad ones usually don't. It was definitely positive to see TT moving safeties with his pump WHAT HE NEEDS TO DEVELOP This is the key to the bills success and TT development as a QB. The one nuance that TT has yet to display at a high rate. His ability to look off linebackers and safeties with his eyes consistently. The greats are all magicians. David Copperfield. Get you looking one way when all the action is going on in the other direction. If Brady knows he's going one way you can bet he will be looking off the linebackers to open up space. The greats are master manipulators with their eyes and that's what sets them apart If TT can continue to develop the nuances of the QB position the bills will be in a good position to win football games UPDATE Through the first half of the season TT has been his consistent self. He doesn't turn ball over and he makes plays with his arm as well as his legs The last few weeks he is starting to play very good ball and is trusting his arm and his eyes more. Getting healthy on offense for TT will be huge for the late season stretch. Charles Clay is TTs favorite and most dependable target. He is a great safety blanket and He is priceless to TT TT has been surprising me in a good way recently. While his stats are never gaudy he has been very steady lately. He is playeing more comfortably from the pocket and is trusting his arm more He constantly makes 1-2 plays a game that few or no other QBs can make If the Bills are going to make the playoffs this year it rests on the continued development of TT as a QB Edited November 4, 2017 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Another question about Tyrod Taylor. Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Another question about Tyrod Taylor. Great! I guess I'm backing him here finally. He's our QB and we can win with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 As a known TT supporter....i need to see what he looks like in this new offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 As a known TT supporter....i need to see what he looks like in this new offense If it's still a Dennison WCO probably prolific. He has great schemes for a mobile QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Just spit it out , it won't hurt , 19-0 Baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Just spit it out , it won't hurt , 19-0 Baby All aboard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Just spit it out , it won't hurt , 19-0 Baby 23-0, 4 preseason games also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 23-0, 4 preseason games also. now that is positive thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Being an NFL QB is arguably the hardest job in all of professional sports. What makes it super difficult are all the little "nuances" that a top tier QB must possess and develop. Some are more innate than others. The "nuance" which is most innate and hardest to teach is the ability to STEP UP into the pocket naturally. Even when it is murky and there are lots of bodies around you must have the innate ability to slide up through traffic. (See Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Jim Kelly) you either have it or you don't. TT can improve but this is one "nuance" he will never have. He will always scramble outside the tackle box for more time instead of stepping up and staying in the pocket. But I did see some "nuances" in TT game the first year and he improved and developed them through last year. What I saw was a QB who studied cornerbacks intently. When running 9 routes he would wait intentionally until he had his burner on usually the slowest or worst CB on the field. He was patient checking it down until he had the favorable matchup he wanted and then he executed the deep ball. Supremely smart Another "nuance" that was easily identifiable was his ability to feel and avoid the first pass rusher. While I already said that TT doesn't and will never do it like a traditional pocket QB he does have a "sixth sense" when it comes to feeling the pass rush and avoiding the first pass rusher. Without this "nuance" you are Blaine Gabbert or EJ spin left out of every situation Manuel What I saw him develop last year: It was a good surprise to see TT utilize the pump fake more last season. Again this is a "nuance" you can develop and it was a good sign to see from TT. QBs either utilize it or they don't. The bad ones usually don't. It was definitely positive to see TT moving safeties with his pump WHAT HE NEEDS TO DEVELOP This is the key to the bills success and TT development as a QB. The one "nuance" that TT has yet to display at a high rate. His ability to look off linebackers and safeties with his eyes consistently. The greats are all magicians. David Copperfield. Get you looking one way when all the action is going on in the other direction. If Brady knows he's going one way you can bet he will be looking off the linebackers to open up space. The greats are master manipulators with their eyes and that's what sets them apart If TT can continue to develop the "nuances" of the QB position the bills will be in a good position to win football games I wonder if the visor is detrimental to looking off coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) I believe that Tyrod struggles with pre snap reads. That makes quick decisions in the middle of the field, and to this thread -locating defenders and moving them - very difficult. If you don't know where defenders will be... well... The lack of autonomy at the line said, right or wrong, coaches weren't trusting him to see what he needed to see to call a play in the hurry up or audible or... it also feeds into many of his issues potentially Edited August 6, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I guess I'm backing him here finally. He's our QB and we can win with him Yeah... this is interesting because before BBMB shut down I remember you felt very differently about Taylor. What changed your mind? At least I think that was you, right? You were the one getting a scouting job, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) Being an NFL QB is arguably the hardest job in all of professional sports. What makes it super difficult are all the little "nuances" that a top tier QB must possess and develop. Some are more innate than others. The "nuance" which is most innate and hardest to teach is the ability to STEP UP into the pocket naturally. Even when it is murky and there are lots of bodies around you must have the innate ability to slide up through traffic. (See Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Jim Kelly) you either have it or you don't. TT can improve but this is one "nuance" he will never have. He will always scramble outside the tackle box for more time instead of stepping up and staying in the pocket. But I did see some "nuances" in TT game the first year and he improved and developed them through last year. What I saw was a QB who studied cornerbacks intently. When running 9 routes he would wait intentionally until he had his burner on usually the slowest or worst CB on the field. He was patient checking it down until he had the favorable matchup he wanted and then he executed the deep ball. Supremely smart Another "nuance" that was easily identifiable was his ability to feel and avoid the first pass rusher. While I already said that TT doesn't and will never do it like a traditional pocket QB he does have a "sixth sense" when it comes to feeling the pass rush and avoiding the first pass rusher. Without this "nuance" you are Blaine Gabbert or EJ spin left out of every situation Manuel What I saw him develop last year: It was a good surprise to see TT utilize the pump fake more last season. Again this is a "nuance" you can develop and it was a good sign to see from TT. QBs either utilize it or they don't. The bad ones usually don't. It was definitely positive to see TT moving safeties with his pump WHAT HE NEEDS TO DEVELOP This is the key to the bills success and TT development as a QB. The one "nuance" that TT has yet to display at a high rate. His ability to look off linebackers and safeties with his eyes consistently. The greats are all magicians. David Copperfield. Get you looking one way when all the action is going on in the other direction. If Brady knows he's going one way you can bet he will be looking off the linebackers to open up space. The greats are master manipulators with their eyes and that's what sets them apart If TT can continue to develop the "nuances" of the QB position the bills will be in a good position to win football games I written several times on this site, including at the beginning of last season, that I thought TT needed to step up into the pocket. I have also posited that his ability to do so would take pressure off the O-line, and RT in particular. I don't necessarily agree that this is an "either you have it, or don't" attribute. Accuracy, mental aptitude, certain mechanics, perhaps-- these are the things that can't be taught. I think that many such attributes are things that Tyrod already possesses. That's the good news. You can't teach his athleticism. But, stepping up into the pocket? That, I believe is something that is easily understandable. I think it just takes awareness, proprioception (which TT has miles of), discipline, and self-confidence. I think it also takes some real chemistry with the O-line. I think Tyrod can get there, and I think his game takes a significant step forward if/when it does. Edited August 7, 2017 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Yeah... this is interesting because before BBMB shut down I remember you felt very differently about Taylor. What changed your mind? At least I think that was you, right? You were the one getting a scouting job, right? Yes that's me. I was never a TT hater but I can admit that I thought we were going nowhere with him and I was adamant we needed an upgrade. Then I stepped back for a few months and I guess it hit me that Rex had so much dysfunction here it was amazing we did as good as we did. Stop putting square pegs into round holes. Rewatching TT games I saw a QB who can be very effective in the right scheme. He isn't ever going to wow you with arm talent but he is precise on short routes and excels at the deep ball He makes the first pass rusher miss almost at will and TT and shady are probably the best 1-2 rushing threat in the league He needs to improve on his decisiveness but I feel I was very hard on his critique. He is easily in the top 20 and just may be the most exsplosive QB in the NFL. I will take that This season I loved bbmb very much but I feel I also was getting very cynical about our bills I written several times on this site, including at the beginning of last season, that I thought TT needed to step up into the pocket. I have also posited that his ability to do so would take pressure off the O-line, and RT in particular. I don't necessarily agree that this is an "either you have it, or don't" attribute. Accuracy, mental aptitude, certain mechanics, perhaps-- these are the things that can't be taught. I think that many such attributes are things that Tyrod already possesses. That's the good news. You can't teach his athleticism. But, stepping up into the pocket? That, I believe is something that is easily understandable. I think it just takes awareness, proprioception (which TT has miles of), discipline, and self-confidence. I think it also takes some real chemistry with the O-line. I think Tyrod can get there, and I think his game takes a significant step forward if/when it does. I written several times on this site, including at the beginning of last season, that I thought TT needed to step up into the pocket. I have also posited that his ability to do so would take pressure off the O-line, and RT in particular. I don't necessarily agree that this is an "either you have it, or don't" attribute. Accuracy, mental aptitude, certain mechanics, perhaps-- these are the things that can't be taught. I think that many such attributes are things that Tyrod already possesses. That's the good news. You can't teach his athleticism. But, stepping up into the pocket? That, I believe is something that is easily understandable. I think it just takes awareness, proprioception (which TT has miles of), discipline, and self-confidence. I think it also takes some real chemistry with the O-line. I think Tyrod can get there, and I think his game takes a significant step forward if/when it does. I written several times on this site, including at the beginning of last season, that I thought TT needed to step up into the pocket. I have also posited that his ability to do so would take pressure off the O-line, and RT in particular. I don't necessarily agree that this is an "either you have it, or don't" attribute. Accuracy, mental aptitude, certain mechanics, perhaps-- these are the things that can't be taught. I think that many such attributes are things that Tyrod already possesses. That's the good news. You can't teach his athleticism. But, stepping up into the pocket? That, I believe is something that is easily understandable. I think it just takes awareness, proprioception (which TT has miles of), discipline, and self-confidence. I think it also takes some real chemistry with the O-line. I think Tyrod can get there, and I think his game takes a significant step forward if/when it does. Oh he can ABSOLUTELY IMPROVE stepping up in the pocket but it WILL NEVER BECOME INNATE. Read Matt Ryan's scouting report from a decade ago. One of the first things... Innate sense in the pocket... you are born with that innate ability to feel inside the pocket. TTs brain tells him to escape. He can hone it and become better at stepping up but he will never be Picasso in the pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Yes that's me. I was never a TT hater but I can admit that I thought we were going nowhere with him and I was adamant we needed an upgrade. Then I stepped back for a few months and I guess it hit me that Rex had so much dysfunction here it was amazing we did as good as we did. Stop putting square pegs into round holes. Rewatching TT games I saw a QB who can be very effective in the right scheme. He isn't ever going to wow you with arm talent but he is precise on short routes and excels at the deep ball He makes the first pass rusher miss almost at will and TT and shady are probably the best 1-2 rushing threat in the league He needs to improve on his decisiveness but I feel I was very hard on his critique. He is easily in the top 20 and just may be the most exsplosive QB in the NFL. I will take that This season I loved bbmb very much but I feel I also was getting very cynical about our bills Oh he can ABSOLUTELY IMPROVE stepping up in the pocket but it WILL NEVER BECOME INNATE. Read Matt Ryan's scouting report from a decade ago. One of the first things... Innate sense in the pocket... you are born with that innate ability to feel inside the pocket. TTs brain tells him to escape. He can hone it and become better at stepping up but he will never be Picasso in the pocket It's a little unfair to use Matt Ryan as the comparison. He has to be the benchmark for stepping up into the pocket. It's amazing-- at times he looked like he was standing in a phone booth made out of offensive linemen. But, we don't need, or, I would submit, want that level of pocket presence in Tyrod. For one thing, that human phone booth would be a human well in Tyrod's case. But, indeed, it is his ability to escape that makes him so special. If he could just learn to occupy the pocket, and step forward, that would be huge. I'm not sure the word "innate" applies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 It's a little unfair to use Matt Ryan as the comparison. He has to be the benchmark for stepping up into the pocket. It's amazing-- at times he looked like he was standing in a phone booth made out of offensive linemen. But, we don't need, or, I would submit, want that level of pocket presence in Tyrod. For one thing, that human phone booth would be a human well in Tyrod's case. But, indeed, it is his ability to escape that makes him so special. If he could just learn to occupy the pocket, and step forward, that would be huge. I'm not sure the word "innate" applies here. I totally agree. He doesn't have to be Matt Ryan. I used innate for him because you can tell it's 100 % natural. TT should be TT. Play within himself and do a little of everything. If he can improve standing tall in the pocket even a little bit that's a big win to go with his play making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 He needs to learn to trust his WRs and allow them to make a play. Too many instances on 3rd and long where he does t throw to the sticks because he is too afraid of turning it over. Is that because he doesn't have confidence in his WRs or his ability to make the throw? Idk....but until he gets comfortable letting it rip a bit more on 3rd, I think we remain out of the playoffs. Maybe the new system and OC will put him in better position to make those throws. I applaud his ability to not turn th ball over but there are many instances in which he needs to give his teammates a chance to make the play as opposed to letting the punter take the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 He needs to learn to trust his WRs and allow them to make a play. Too many instances on 3rd and long where he does t throw to the sticks because he is too afraid of turning it over. Is that because he doesn't have confidence in his WRs or his ability to make the throw? Idk....but until he gets comfortable letting it rip a bit more on 3rd, I think we remain out of the playoffs. Maybe the new system and OC will put him in better position to make those throws. I applaud his ability to not turn th ball over but there are many instances in which he needs to give his teammates a chance to make the play as opposed to letting the punter take the field Well said Only he knows why he throws short of the sticks on 3rd down. If he can take more CALCULATED RISKS on 3rd down this year maybe we turn the page as an offense Shady out of the backfield should be a no brainer on 3rd and 4 all year. Move those sticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Yes that's me. I was never a TT hater but I can admit that I thought we were going nowhere with him and I was adamant we needed an upgrade. Then I stepped back for a few months and I guess it hit me that Rex had so much dysfunction here it was amazing we did as good as we did. Stop putting square pegs into round holes. Rewatching TT games I saw a QB who can be very effective in the right scheme. He isn't ever going to wow you with arm talent but he is precise on short routes and excels at the deep ball He makes the first pass rusher miss almost at will and TT and shady are probably the best 1-2 rushing threat in the league He needs to improve on his decisiveness but I feel I was very hard on his critique. He is easily in the top 20 and just may be the most exsplosive QB in the NFL. I will take that This season I loved bbmb very much but I feel I also was getting very cynical about our bills Thank you for the honesty and open mindedness, but I'm still curious what specifically changed your mind? Did you rewatch a bunch of games? I ask because these "nuances" are very seemingly scout specific. Any plays as examples of these you could direct us to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) Thank you for the honesty and open mindedness, but I'm still curious what specifically changed your mind? Did you rewatch a bunch of games? I ask because these "nuances" are very seemingly scout specific. Any plays as examples of these you could direct us to? Yes. I went back to rewatch a bunch of games from the past 2 years. He is a Picasso at usually evading the first pass rusher. You can turn on any start and watch him side step, and step through defenders. He does a good job keeping his eyes up which allows him to feel the edge rush with his peripheral vision. That's key One play that really stood out to me was his first ever TD throw. TT checks with Percy Harvin. Realizes he has a slower corner on him. He stays calm in the pocket looking down the field until Percy reaches top gear and then he unloads a perfect ball to the back quarter of the end zone . It was textbook film study, communication, and then execution on the field. All he needed was to see #20 opposite Percy. That was his cue. He also kept the safety in the middle instead of over top Another patiently executed play was in his first home game against the dolphins. Third quarter up 19-14. Third and 14 I believe. Takes the shot gun snap and patiently drifts right in the pocket. Eyes down field looking at the strong safety he realizes its cover 1 robber and Sammy is 1on1 down the sideline. Throws a ball to the end zone where only Sammy can make a play on it. Smart, patient Quarterbacking He seems to know when he has a CB in the dog house. And he knows how to communicate with his WR to put him into position for a big play.even just a look pre snap Edited August 7, 2017 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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