Cherrybone Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Everytime a article come out about Watkins they always state that he's on the verge of being a bust or a disappointment due to injuries. That's not a fair assessment at all. Don't forget the coaching, multiple coordinators and not so good qb play. A lot of fans really became enamored by the so called second half of the season and truly believed that Tyrod and Sammy were on their way to something great for time to come. However when you really evaluate that surge that Sammy had you will see that it was Sammy's ability to make huge plays and gain chunks of yards when giving the opportunity. Prime example was the Houston game I believe he had 2 catches for over 100yds. He should've been targeted more. The KC game he gained huge yards the 1st half and was only targeted 1 time in the 2nd half. So regardless of what people want to believe Sammy and Tyrod really didn't have the connection some want to believe. The only game they seemed to be on the same page was the Jets game. What made things seem like they were going in the right direction was the yards that Sammy gained. He still didn't have enough targets to be a number one. That's why if I'm the Bills all I'm looking for is a healthy Sammy. If Sammy and Tyrod can connect on a consistent basis then so be it. However if not then everyone should know it's not because of Sammy. I just would hate to see him stay healthy all year but due to bad qb play he get judged by poor numbers. Overall Sammy should have more targets along with more yards because he is that explosive. OBJ started 5 games more then Sammy and look at his numbers. I saw a list with the receivers that came out the same year as Sammy and when you look at the yards he's still not that far off from them. It's the receptions that is the issue. And when you look at the amount of games, he's not that far off either. So injury isn't the only issue that's holding Sammy back. I think it's minor compared to qb play. With his abilities he could have done way more in lesser time he's that kind of good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Injuries arent. Just sayin. No doubt he has tremendous talent and could be a dominant receiver with above average QB play but the injury question is a fair one and this season will go a long way in determining if hes here long term. If hes healthy most of the year I would think 90 plus catches for 1300 plus yards and ten plus tds is in the ball park. Zays getting good reviews early. With a healthy Sammy the WR group has the potential to be a strength of this offense. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We have yet to see Sammy have any yard after the catch impact. That was basically all he did in college. So far in the NFL we are only seeing big plays from him on long throws. Let's get him the ball with room to run and let him make some plays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Everytime a article come out about Watkins they always state that he's on the verge of being a bust or a disappointment due to injuries. That's not a fair assessment at all. Don't forget the coaching, multiple coordinators and not so good qb play. A lot of fans really became enamored by the so called second half of the season and truly believed that Tyrod and Sammy were on their way to something great for time to come. However when you really evaluate that surge that Sammy had you will see that it was Sammy's ability to make huge plays and gain chunks of yards when giving the opportunity. Prime example was the Houston game I believe he had 2 catches for over 100yds. He should've been targeted more. The KC game he gained huge yards the 1st half and was only targeted 1 time in the 2nd half. So regardless of what people want to believe Sammy and Tyrod really didn't have the connection some want to believe. The only game they seemed to be on the same page was the Jets game. What made things seem like they were going in the right direction was the yards that Sammy gained. He still didn't have enough targets to be a number one. That's why if I'm the Bills all I'm looking for is a healthy Sammy. If Sammy and Tyrod can connect on a consistent basis then so be it. However if not then everyone should know it's not because of Sammy. I just would hate to see him stay healthy all year but due to bad qb play he get judged by poor numbers. Overall Sammy should have more targets along with more yards because he is that explosive. OBJ started 5 games more then Sammy and look at his numbers. I saw a list with the receivers that came out the same year as Sammy and when you look at the yards he's still not that far off from them. It's the receptions that is the issue. And when you look at the amount of games, he's not that far off either. So injury isn't the only issue that's holding Sammy back. I think it's minor compared to qb play. With his abilities he could have done way more in lesser time he's that kind of good Well our offense the past 2 years has had a limited route tree. We didnt run slants drags and screens with the sole goal being to get the ball to watkins. It wasn't in roman's playbook. You see guys like landry, antonion brown, and others getting huge target numbers because that's how their offense is structured. They can all still make plays down the field, but their bread and butter is more short stuff. If you try to roll coverage to double watkins on a slant, a WR might be in single man coverage with no high safety on the same side. Or a TE can leak out behind them and get in a foot race with a LB. So you tend to just let them have the short stuff and try and consistently tackle. The roman offense seems to be more about attacking them in the run game, and going over the top when they cheat to stop your running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We have yet to see Sammy have any yard after the catch impact. That was basically all he did in college. So far in the NFL we are only seeing big plays from him on long throws. Let's get him the ball with room to run and let him make some plays! Did I miss something? https://giant.gfycat.com/ClumsyThatBumblebee.webm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Did I miss something? https://giant.gfycat.com/ClumsyThatBumblebee.webm Thats the Sammy I want to see. Nice play. Did notice a little limp at the end though? Relax. Just kidding. Edited July 31, 2017 by Billsmovinup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Did I miss something? https://giant.gfycat.com/ClumsyThatBumblebee.webm you did. Sammy had over 1000 yards receiving in 2015 and only 160 of those were after the catch, which is horrible. i'm not sure if you don't watch the games or you just like to find ways to try and be right but you are very wrong on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Really interested to see if they use him more on slants and crossing patterns. Not all the time but as a nice change up. Not familiar enough with Dennison's Offense to know how he will be used. Also, very interested to see if TT or Peterson can hit him in stride quickly on said slants. If he played with a QB who could do that he could be lights out. Really interested in Peterson for this reason as it's about accuracy and touch as opposed to arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 you did. Sammy had over 1000 yards receiving in 2015 and only 160 of those were after the catch, which is horrible. i'm not sure if you don't watch the games or you just like to find ways to try and be right but you are very wrong on this one Irrespective of YAC, Sammy's career YPC is 16.1 and in 2015 it was 17.5. Both are excellent numbers in today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) you did. Sammy had over 1000 yards receiving in 2015 and only 160 of those were after the catch, which is horrible. i'm not sure if you don't watch the games or you just like to find ways to try and be right but you are very wrong on this one I was wrong? We have yet to see Sammy have any yard after the catch impact. That was basically all he did in college. So far in the NFL we are only seeing big plays from him on long throws. Let's get him the ball with room to run and let him make some plays! My point wasn't that he's done it a lot, but rather that, yes, we've seen it. Thats the Sammy I want to see. Nice play. Did notice a little limp at the end though? Relax. Just kidding. Edited July 31, 2017 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 It's not a coincidence that Sammy ran more slants under Marrone/Orton vs. Ryan/Taylor; those routes are the ones TT struggles with most and it didn't take Roman long to realize that. I read a blurb recently that said TT was working on being taller in the pocket and I was glad to see that. He's had a tendency to make himself smaller by crouching too much on his back pedal and short QBs just can't afford to do that. On the play that Bandit linked above, Orton's 6'5" height and higher release point make all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Irrespective of YAC, Sammy's career YPC is 16.1 and in 2015 it was 17.5. Both are excellent numbers in today's NFL. Yes because like I said we are only seeing his big plays come as a result of long bombs. How about get him the ball and let him run with it and make a play. He needs more YAC. He was a YAC attack in college so why not now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yes because like I said we are only seeing his big plays come as a result of long bombs. How about get him the ball and let him run with it and make a play. He needs more YAC. He was a YAC attack in college so why not now? Good possibility we see him improve in this area in Dennison's offense. They actually started 11-on-11 the other day at SJF with a screen pass to Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 If I had a dime for every hall of fame WR that never realized potential do to sub par QB play and coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Great example of taking a stat out of context and building a conviction from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) It's not a coincidence that Sammy ran more slants under Marrone/Orton vs. Ryan/Taylor; those routes are the ones TT struggles with most and it didn't take Roman long to realize that. I read a blurb recently that said TT was working on being taller in the pocket and I was glad to see that. He's had a tendency to make himself smaller by crouching too much on his back pedal and short QBs just can't afford to do that. On the play that Bandit linked above, Orton's 6'5" height and higher release point make all the difference. Roman didn't run slants with alex smith or Kaepernick. Both are 6'4". The guy doesn't like slants. He'll do levels concepts sometimes, but those are much longer developing plays. Edited July 31, 2017 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Roman didn't run slants with alex smith or Kaepernick. Both are 6'4". The guy doesn't like slants. He'll do levels concepts sometimes, but those are much longer developing plays. I'll take your word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We have yet to see Sammy have any yard after the catch impact. That was basically all he did in college. So far in the NFL we are only seeing big plays from him on long throws. Let's get him the ball with room to run and let him make some plays! I was going to respond with something similar. I don't think it's fair to criticize Watkins (or somehow Taylor) for him being utilized as more of a deep threat. He's a great deep threat, but IMO, Sammy was not being utilized to his full potential under Rex/Roman/Lynn. And I'm not referring to the lack of bubble screens (fans have this fantasy idea that Watkins will always replicate his success with bubble screens at the pro level, as he did at Clemson). The real crime has been the lack of quick slants and drags with Sammy. I get that the Bills didn't really have a true deep that aside from Sammy, to take the top off of a defense (other than some flashes from Goodwin last year), so I "see" why he was sent deep as often as he was. Go back to 2014. Sammy burned the Jets on slants over the middle for large gains multiple times that year, to the point where Rex was gushing about him in his post game presser. When they hired Rex a few months later, I thought for sure that Sammy would be running more of those slants, based on the way Rex spoke of Sammy (because of those slants), but it never happened. Instead, it was either a go, deep curl, or deep out. I doubt they had Sammy run a slants or drag more than once per game...if that. He's the type of player that you want to get the ball to in stride, with space, yet he was rarely used that way. Taylor may have a great deep ball, and Sammy may be a great deep threat, but having him utilize more of the route tree would help keep defense guessing, and open up the rest of the passing attack to become less predictable. With Dennison, I think we'll see this utilized more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Well our offense the past 2 years has had a limited route tree. We didnt run slants drags and screens with the sole goal being to get the ball to watkins. It wasn't in roman's playbook. You see guys like landry, antonion brown, and others getting huge target numbers because that's how their offense is structured. They can all still make plays down the field, but their bread and butter is more short stuff. If you try to roll coverage to double watkins on a slant, a WR might be in single man coverage with no high safety on the same side. Or a TE can leak out behind them and get in a foot race with a LB. So you tend to just let them have the short stuff and try and consistently tackle. The roman offense seems to be more about attacking them in the run game, and going over the top when they cheat to stop your running game. The 49ers are my "2nd team", and I've watched them a lot over the years. You are right on the money here. Roman had a very old school philosophy of run to set up pass. The 49ers were constantly near the top of the league in rushing under Roman (although Frank Gore is probably the most underrated back in history, and their top defense allowed their offense to shorten games by bleeding clock on the ground). But their passing attack was not very diverse, consisting mainly of flood concepts meant to attack at multiple levels, but cutting the field in half. It was more about efficiency, moving the chains, and not so much about YAC. They're my "2nd team" because one of my good friends is a 9ers fan. I told him as soon as I heard Smith was traded that it would be the beginning of the end for the coaching staff. When he got injured, his completion % was over 70. He was the perfect QB for that offense. The year prior, special teams cost them a trip to the SB against NE, and Kaep not being yet figured out got them to the SB the next year. My friend thought I was crazy, and was flying high on the Kaep hype train. Since then, the coaches have been canned, and their QBs consisted of Blaine Gabbert and a terrible Kaepernick, and now Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley... *Edit, I see I'm posting the same things...I should have read through the thread first Edited July 31, 2017 by Drunken Pygmy Goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re enlightener Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Everytime a article come out about Watkins they always state that he's on the verge of being a bust or a disappointment due to injuries. That's not a fair assessment at all. Don't forget the coaching, multiple coordinators and not so good qb play. A lot of fans really became enamored by the so called second half of the season and truly believed that Tyrod and Sammy were on their way to something great for time to come. However when you really evaluate that surge that Sammy had you will see that it was Sammy's ability to make huge plays and gain chunks of yards when giving the opportunity. Prime example was the Houston game I believe he had 2 catches for over 100yds. He should've been targeted more. The KC game he gained huge yards the 1st half and was only targeted 1 time in the 2nd half. So regardless of what people want to believe Sammy and Tyrod really didn't have the connection some want to believe. The only game they seemed to be on the same page was the Jets game. What made things seem like they were going in the right direction was the yards that Sammy gained. He still didn't have enough targets to be a number one. That's why if I'm the Bills all I'm looking for is a healthy Sammy. If Sammy and Tyrod can connect on a consistent basis then so be it. However if not then everyone should know it's not because of Sammy. I just would hate to see him stay healthy all year but due to bad qb play he get judged by poor numbers. Overall Sammy should have more targets along with more yards because he is that explosive. OBJ started 5 games more then Sammy and look at his numbers. I saw a list with the receivers that came out the same year as Sammy and when you look at the yards he's still not that far off from them. It's the receptions that is the issue. And when you look at the amount of games, he's not that far off either. So injury isn't the only issue that's holding Sammy back. I think it's minor compared to qb play. With his abilities he could have done way more in lesser time he's that kind of good maybe he could be less of a pu$$y and not fall down before contact or one-arm contested jump balls, oh and run a screen for once. Sammy is a giant fraidy cat, thats the problem,hes lucky he has tight wad throwing deep balls on target to him, or his numbers would be complete $hit. Did I miss something? https://giant.gfycat.com/ClumsyThatBumblebee.webm this ONE play is so over done, he caught the ball simultaneously when the 2 defenders arrive, he ducks under per the norm and when both idiots miss him, he has a clear shot to the endzone, so ya you missed something, its called the other 100 plays where he drops it or gets tackled before contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts