GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 I would remove the "above" from eball's post. I think Tyrod is an average NFL starting quarterback and agree that puts him squarely in the "bridge" category as (and I have repeated this often, I know) does his contract. I think he is better than anyone we have had this century with the exception of the first 8-10 games of Bledsoe... I just don't think the gap beneath him to Orton and Fitzpatrick is as big as others do. I would also add a 3rd possibilty to eball's list. I think the 3rd option is Tyrod is about the same again that we have seen through 2 years. If that is the case and the team has gone 7-9 or 8-8 again I very, very much fear that the Bills will think "get two elite playmakers in the 1st round and we can win with Tyrod" and there would be fans who support them doing that I promise you that now. Unless Tyrod "breaks out" the Bills need to spend their first pick in the 2018 draft on a Quarterback even if that means trading up to do so. That doesn't mean Tyrod couldn't still go into 2018 as the starter.... but it means we let him walk at the end of this 2 year deal and turn this team over some time in 2018 to the new hope.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 ...ZERO value IMO in going azz backwards to rehash all of the TT's "shoulda, coulda, wouldas", manipulating the SAME stats to prove one's point only to have 300+ pages disproving the argument with the same stats....willing to push the RESTART button with Dennison at the helm designing the offense, and he's qualified to do so IMO.....at the same time, I think this is TT's "make it or break it" year in a Buffalo uni with Dennison having final say as to whether he is retained in 2018+.......
Figster Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Then how about we say that he's a short term band-aid? Say what you want, Nobody knows for sure Taylor is not a franchise QB. Just for fun though compare T T's first 2 seasons as a starter to the hall of famer J K Edited July 27, 2017 by Figster
eball Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 I would remove the "above" from eball's post. I think Tyrod is an average NFL starting quarterback and agree that puts him squarely in the "bridge" category as (and I have repeated this often, I know) does his contract. I think he is better than anyone we have had this century with the exception of the first 8-10 games of Bledsoe... I just don't think the gap beneath him to Orton and Fitzpatrick is as big as others do. I would also add a 3rd possibilty to eball's list. I think the 3rd option is Tyrod is about the same again that we have seen through 2 years. If that is the case and the team has gone 7-9 or 8-8 again I very, very much fear that the Bills will think "get two elite playmakers in the 1st round and we can win with Tyrod" and there would be fans who support them doing that I promise you that now. Unless Tyrod "breaks out" the Bills need to spend their first pick in the 2018 draft on a Quarterback even if that means trading up to do so. That doesn't mean Tyrod couldn't still go into 2018 as the starter.... but it means we let him walk at the end of this 2 year deal and turn this team over some time in 2018 to the new hope. I don't think that 3rd possibility is anything anyone is "waiting for" -- which is how I characterized my two scenarios. If Tyrod plays "about the same" then the Bills are still looking at option #2 -- I get no impression they are willing to "make due" with an average QB for any long period of time.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Say what you want, Nobody knows for sure Taylor is not a franchise QB. Just for fun though compare T T's first 2 seasons as a starter to the hall of famer J K ...this hangup on labeling nonsense is purely asinine.......just give me a perennially, dependable, solid starting QB with a good head on his shoulders, no flash or fanfare, no gaudy stats chaser that can win me some football games..."10" annually would be a nice round number to start with.....besides what the hell is a "franchise QB" anyway versus what I'm looking for??.......... Edited July 27, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
Figster Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 ...this hangup on labeling nonsense is purely asinine.......just give me a perennially, dependable, solid starting QB with a good head on his shoulders, no flash or fanfare, no gaudy stats chaser that can win me some football games..."10" annually would be a nice round number to start with.....besides what the hell is a "franchise QB" anyway versus what I'm looking for??.......... I agree 100% A franchise QB is what a team says it is and like it or not your description may suffice.
GoBills808 Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 I agree 100% A franchise QB is what a team says it is and like it or not your description may suffice. I define it as a guy who's spent 5 years with the same team and started >12 games a season over those 5 years for them. Pretty rough but I think it holds up ok.
Figster Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) I define it as a guy who's spent 5 years with the same team and started >12 games a season over those 5 years for them. Pretty rough but I think it holds up ok. Not a bad way to define it IMO. So we have Taylor going into his 3rd season with HC McD building a team around him. Edited July 27, 2017 by Figster
reddogblitz Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 "Franchise QB" is just a dumb term somebody made up with no real definition. Roll your own definition and argue about it. Silliness ...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 If Tyrod plays "about the same" then the Bills are still looking at option #2 -- I get no impression they are willing to "make due" with an average QB for any long period of time. I really hope you are right eball I really do. I think that the 3rd option is on the table though. I absolutely get the impression that the drought (and witness McDermott's comments about "owning it") means that if they go 8-8 on a tough schedule they might well think two non QB first rounders is going to get them over the hump.... and you know what.... they could even be right, but it gets them over the hump to a wildcard game and I want them to forget that and try and shoot for a championship team even if that means 2018 is taking some lumps with a rook.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 Say what you want, Nobody knows for sure Taylor is not a franchise QB. Just for fun though compare T T's first 2 seasons as a starter to the hall of famer J K . At this point in time to me the clear answer is no he is not
Maury Ballstein Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 "Franchise QB" is just a dumb term somebody made up with no real definition. Roll your own definition and argue about it. Silliness ... Brady Rogers Big Ben Dak Jameis Brees Rivers are franchise qb's.
John from Riverside Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 . At this point in time to me the clear answer is no he is not At this point I would not call TT a franchise qb That doesnt mean I dont like him.....still think he is a good qb.....franchise guys are rare
reddogblitz Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 Brady Rogers Big Ben Dak Jameis Brees Rivers are franchise qb's. By the definition I rolled up, cheaters aren't FQs.
Crusher Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 There are two HUGE factors a lot of people continue to over look on some of Taylors most glaring flaws, which is his ability to see the field better and his anticipation on his throws (the two things you mention in this OP). And both are very accurate assessments on what he needs to improve on the most. 1. Ability to see the field better: There is a HUGE factor that I have brought up before but yet continues to be overlooked, and that was REX RYAN. Let me explain...I don't mean Coaching either. Rex was in LOVE with Tyrods ability to make plays with his legs, too much actually. Tyrod had a FULL GREEN LIGHT to take off and run if he didn't see something there. Rex is a defensive mindset Coach who wants to protect the ball and pound the run way more than taking chances downfield. So Tyrods game was more geared to taking off when he doesn't see it rather than force a throw, hence the low turnovers and tendency to run way too early. Even when someone like Tyrod looks like they are still looking downfield, they are often surveying running lanes at that point and that tends to lead to a lot of missed reads that opened up. With ANY QB who is a lethal runner, its already a challenge to not break off downfield reads and start looking for running reads because they feel they are so dangerous running too. So when your coach emphasizes this and gives you a green light, its going to cloud his downfield vision. Tyrods biggest issue with seeing the field has been breaking off those reads and looking for running lanes too early in his progressions, hence missing easy throws that opened up down field, especially the middle of the field as Tyrod seemed to look for edge spacing most often to run on, which I dont blame him being a small frame guy wanting to avoid big hits over the middle. With this new staff, I am hoping to see them implement a more Steve Young type mentality where the priority is heavily on the downfield reads and also given a green light to be less careful and more aggressive before he looks to do damage with his legs. (And NOOOOO I am not comparing him to Steve Young, just saying he was a guy who could hurt you bad with his legs, but was always looking to be aggressive passing first). 2. Anticipation of his throws: NEVER underestimate the importance of trust and timing when it comes to a QB and his WR's. Tyrod has actually shown he can throw with good timing and accuracy downfield when he trusts and has chemistry with his WRs like with Sammy. When Sammy was mostly healthy the last 9 games of 2015 the two of them were highly productive and Tryod took a lot more chances. In 2016, our WR group was a joke, often starting guys from the bench or even the street. Almost every game Sammy appeared in he was a shell of himself and mostly a decoy until really the week 16 where he was finally healthy to play a role and went out and had a big game. With a full offseason with his new receivers, the hope is that we will both get Sammy back at full speed and stay that way as well as get the new WR group to stay healthy out there on the field. Tyrod almost played with a different group of WR's week in and week out the last 2 years. Woods was always dinged up, Sammy obviously hurt a lot, Goodwin made of glass, Harvin a pipe dream, etc. Outside of Sammy, our WR group was pitiful...if they could have all been healthy, it had promise, but NONE of them were. So, I think there is a lot to be optimistic for about Tyrod this year...but make no mistake about it, he needs to elevate his game this year and prove he deserves to continue being the Bills starter. I just for one see a lot to be optimistic about, significant factors that contributed to some of the struggles the last 2 years, and also seen him do a lot of amazing and really good things too. But, I am in no way "in love" with him and if he doesn't take a significant step forward this year as a passer, then I am all in on using our 2 firsts next year to land a big time prospect. #GOBILLS Blaming Rex for the way Tyrod played is extreme speculation and reeks of excuse making. I suspect this type of stuff will continue until the Bills finally cut bait, which hopefully comes after this season if he doesn't perform at the level he needs to. Say what you want, Nobody knows for sure Taylor is not a franchise QB. Just for fun though compare T T's first 2 seasons as a starter to the hall of famer J K Two years of data says he's likely not going to be much more than what he has shown. And I did compare Kelly and Tyrods first two season's I'm the NFL...zero production vs average production. Kelly wins. Taylor is on year SEVEN in the league
Figster Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) Blaming Rex for the way Tyrod played is extreme speculation and reeks of excuse making. I suspect this type of stuff will continue until the Bills finally cut bait, which hopefully comes after this season if he doesn't perform at the level he needs to. Two years of data says he's likely not going to be much more than what he has shown. And I did compare Kelly and Tyrods first two season's I'm the NFL...zero production vs average production. Kelly wins. Taylor is on year SEVEN in the league real clever, Taylors first 2 seasons as NFL starter 37 TD's and 12 INT's Jim Kellys first 2 seasons as NFL starter 36 TD's and 32 INT's Which QB helped the team more ? JK had a championship caliber GM and coaching staff, Taylor had below average GM/ coaching that got sent packing. Edited July 28, 2017 by Figster
Figster Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 "Franchise QB" is just a dumb term somebody made up with no real definition. Roll your own definition and argue about it. Silliness ... Franchise QB is just another way of saying face of the franchise in my humble opinion red. When we think of the Pats we think Brady, Diego/ Rivers, Saint's/ Brees, Packer's, Rodgers and so on.
JM2009 Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 real clever, Taylors first 2 seasons as NFL starter 37 TD's and 12 INT's Jim Kellys first 2 seasons as NFL starter 36 TD's and 32 INT's Which QB helped the team more ? JK had a championship caliber GM and coaching staff, Taylor had below average GM/ coaching that got sent packing. Don't forget his rushing TDs as well.
Figster Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 Don't forget his rushing TDs as well. thanks, lets add 10 more making it 47 TD's and 12 INT's for Taylor
transplantbillsfan Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 The same could be said about the QB and the Seattle or Miami game. Except that the defenses valleys were much lower than Taylor's valleys. When you give up three different 200 yard rushing games, it's virtually inevitable you've lost three games. The defense was abysmal and multiple games in 2016. Taylor was bad against the ravens and the Bengals. Those three games with the 200 yard rusher's are mostly on the defense. Not entirely, but mostly. I think you could throw in there also the first Jets game where the defense allowed Ryan Fitzpatrick to pass for almost 400 yards. And then the defense blows a 15 point lead in the second half of the Raiders game allowing the Raiders offense to score and score and score and score. And while those three and outs that came on consecutive drives in the third quarter of the game didn't help, the defense literally had no excuse for not being rested on the first two Raiders touchdowns of the third-quarter. They had an entire half to rest, and then the Raiders had the ball for less than a minute before the bills offense put us ahead by 15 points. When the defense was good, they were really good. But it's hilarious that people dismiss Taylor's victory against the patriots because of who is starting QB on the other team. I'm sorry, were the patriots missing any of their defense? If that game should be dismissed for anyone in terms of praise, it's for the defense. The defense when it was bad, it was abysmal. Taylor wasn't. Like it or not, QBs who don't turn the ball over really aren't ever abysmal.
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