transplantbillsfan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Should I post nudes to get it doe sooner? Only if they're of yourself Me of course Whoop whoop!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 It was four years on the bench, not five. And you're right, there are always growing pains. But the good ones have growing pains and still manage to show themselves franchise guys by year six, no matter what their career arc, again with the single exception of Gannon. Maybe it would have been different if he'd gotten more playing time there, but guys with college records like Tyrod get drafted as backups in the mid-rounds, not starters in the top one or two rounds. Some guys still fight through that and when they get their chance to start they make hay. Steve Young. Arguably Alex Smith - he did have a good Season #6, but he got thrown under the bus next season and didn't emerge as an unchallenged starter until year 7 I do realize there's that magical term "franchise guy" which means different things to different folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Steve Young. Arguably Alex Smith - he did have a good Season #6, but he got thrown under the bus next season and didn't emerge as an unchallenged starter until year 7 I do realize there's that magical term "franchise guy" which means different things to different folks Eli Manning did not become a franchise-quality QB until his sixth year as a starter. Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Steve Young. Arguably Alex Smith - he did have a good Season #6, but he got thrown under the bus next season and didn't emerge as an unchallenged starter until year 7 I do realize there's that magical term "franchise guy" which means different things to different folks Steve Young - Nope. Addressed it earlier in the thread. Look at his stats in his fifth and sixth years. He was still behind Montana, but when he played he was tearing up the league. It was very clear the Niners had a franchise guy waiting for Montana to leave. In Young's fifth year he only played three games but if you pro-rate his stats for the whole season, he'd have been 2nd in the league in completion percentage, 1st by far (120.8 with the next guy being Montana with a 112.4) in passer rating, and 1st in YPA. And he was doing the same in camp and preseason. In those days, it was unusual to have a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. Only two starters did it that year, Montana and Esiason. Young went 8:3. Young had absolutely proved himself well before his sixth year. Alex Smith too, though you have a shade of an argument there. As you say, he had a franchise type 6th year. Yeah, they threw him under the bus thinking they had a better franchise guy (wrongly) but it's beside the point. He'd become a franchise guy, and he's basically been the same guy ever since. Some people don't think of him as a franchise guy. Doesn't matter to my argument, because whatever he is now, that's what he was in his sixth year. Eli Manning did not become a franchise-quality QB until his sixth year as a starter. Look it up. Sixth year would still make my point, but it's not true. The light came on for him late in his fifth year, which is what allowed the Giants to win a Super Bowl that year. If he'd still been playing at the level he'd achieved in his first four and a half years, they wouldn't have won that Lombardi. How long until this one gets shutdown? It certainly deserves it. But IMHO the mods have designated it as the sort of off-to-the-side place to isolate some of the weirder Tyrod fanatics and genuine haters. Edited August 10, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 It'd take anyone 5 minutes given the detail I've already given you. Took you that long at least to come up with and type yet another really stupid analogy of yours. And, honestly, if you weren't such an arrogant bastard when you first brought up providing the times, I probably would have done it. But that's what you are, so that's asking too much. At this point you're just stupidly derailing what could be a good discussion. I'll come back if you ever want to talk about this topic having watched the plays you could easily find... More of the same. You're missing the point, which is par for the course for you. This isn't about you and me. It's about how people act when they're searching for truth and trying to bring value to the discussion vs. how people act when they're trying to cover up shoddy, partisan work they're not confident of. Confident people share their work and make it easy for people to check it. People who've done shoddy work try to hide it. You're obviously in the latter group. You've already done the work, you know where the plays are. In this thread, you identified the plays so very poorly nobody else could find them without extensive guesswork. If I remember correctly you identified one play - in total - as a third down where the throw was high, without identifying what game you were talking about. Out of nine games. It wouldn't be easy for anyone to find but you. For you, five minutes. Anyone else, hours and hours. And it's not just me who you're stopping from checking. Anyone here could and probably would check a game or two if you'd done what you would if you didn't have something to hide. People who still believe in Tyrod could check too. But you're obviously too scared of even their opinion to show the specific plays. Everyone reading this thread already knows at this point what's going on. You're cowering on this issue like a whipped dog. You'll never give the specific plays. And everyone reading knows why at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I think If you had asked Rex Ryan going into Taylors second season he would probably tell you he believes Buffalo has found their guy. Now the Bills new HC McD who seems like a very football savvy kinda fella basically just put his HC career on the line by saying we're going to win now with Tyrod Taylor. So with all due respect, I'll take their action speaks louder than words, over yours. Their actions don't contradict my opinion at all. They both took the best QB they could find. Rex might indeed have said he thought Buffalo had found their guy. Rex threw out an awful lot of wildly optimistic hot air. Their actions consist of forcing Tyrod to take a major pay cut to keep him and trading for an extra 1st round pick next year in a year that's at least so far supposed to be the best QB year in a while. You can completely believe me and still understand their actions perfectly. I've said before, Figster, I hope you're right. I just don't think you are. I'd be thrilled to be wrong, but it's not likely on this particular issue. Could happen, though, nothing's impossible. Edited August 10, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 It's info literally anyone can easily find. Thurm's just nasty about the way he asks for (or requires) those things before anything else. Since he was (and always has been) nasty about it. I'm not doing work he could easily do. I've noticed it's been a while since you've been anything more than a color commentator in a thread. Ever consider engaging in actual discussion rather than commenting on the discussion that's occurring? It isn't one guy you'd be providing the info for. It would be the community. But we both know you're not giving this info to anybody, don't we? If your info would check out you would have absolutely no reason not to give it to us all and show us. That's how we know your info wouldn't check out. And knowing that, you've indeed got every reason to keep this info out of the hands of every single person reading this. After all, they might check your work. Wouldn't want that, would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I only got 1 warning point and it was the time I got the temporary ban. I'm pretty light actually. You're just assuming I'm angry as I type. But I do notice you like to direct your "posting corrections" at me when, in fact, Thurm was "fueling the fire" there with his "see folks, lookie at trannie doing this here" post. I think it's strange you choose to point out my "fire flaming" post rather than his. Could it be because you agree with his position on Taylor but not mine? banned after 1 or 2 months says it all. Have at it. I'll just blow by your posts as if they weren't there just as I do Crusher, Thurm and jm2009. Nice agenda BTW. Edited August 10, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I think there's one thing the majority of this board will agree on......that this year's team, particularly the offense, is setup in Taylor's favor. If he doesn't take the next step (barring massive injuries to the starters), it's gonna be hard to convince anyone on this board he's the long term answer in Buffalo. I'm a supporter but I am yet to be convinced he's someone the Bills can build their team around. The coaching staff is exponentially better, Beane > Whaley, the culture of the team is light years better and the skill players are darn good (with Shady being elite). I'm hoping the RT spot will be better as well. I think the defense will be better and overall, I think the team will be more disciplined resulting in less penalties. I'm looking forward to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 This is like trump vs Hillary. Marriages will break up families fighting. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) He fits perfectly, as one of a host of guys who by the end of their sixth years did not manage to prove themselves a franchise QB. And out of that entire group of, what, over a thousand QBs who didn't prove themselves a franchise guy by the end of their sixth year, exactly one, Rich Gannon, then made major improvements and became a franchise guy. Tyrod fits perfectly into a very large group and a smaller but still large group of people who started off with several years on the bench and then got a chance to start and still didn't prove themselves by the end of their sixth year. And again, none of them became franchise QBs but Gannon. With meaningless arguments – measured by degree of meaninglessness – this one has to rank high. As I understand it, the substance is thus : After (X) years, a quarterback is either “franchise” or turns into a pumpkin Pumpkins don’t have arms Ergo, pumpkins can’t throw Ergo, pumpkins can’t become “franchise” Ergo, after (X) years a quarterback can’t be “franchise” - QED Cue a zillion posts on a handful of pumpkins in NFL history. The problem is it’s a meaningless data sample. Most QBs prove themselves one way or another well before (X) years by : Being a high draft choice, so the team has to validate their investment Injuries giving the QB a chance The team's QB situation is such a mess everyone’s in the running None of these apply to Taylor. Flacco never missed a game for injury all the years TT played there. And Joe's the city’s idol, a Super Bowl hero, the face of the team, and a "franchise quarterback". Also : Joe may run hot & cold, but there’s always been enough ups to keep the team hooked. There was never any chance Taylor would start there. As for the magical (X) number, it’s meaningless in & of itself. It’s good for a QB to sit on the bench a while – with some it’s probably essential – but I imagine there are diminishing returns. TT’s professional growth from Year Three to Four was probably a fraction of what it was from One to Two. A quarterback has to play. Likewise, I imagine most of a QB’s growth comes in the first three years of starting. This year will be interesting……. Edited August 10, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 This is like trump vs Hillary. Marriages will break up families fighting. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't want to know what the Russians found in transplant's emails....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Their actions don't contradict my opinion at all. They both took the best QB they could find. Rex might indeed have said he thought Buffalo had found their guy. Rex threw out an awful lot of wildly optimistic hot air. Their actions consist of forcing Tyrod to take a major pay cut to keep him and trading for an extra 1st round pick next year in a year that's at least so far supposed to be the best QB year in a while. You can completely believe me and still understand their actions perfectly. I've said before, Figster, I hope you're right. I just don't think you are. I'd be thrilled to be wrong, but it's not likely on this particular issue. Could happen, though, nothing's impossible. thanks for the polite reply With meaningless arguments – measured by degree of meaninglessness – this one has to rank high. As I understand it, the substance is thus : After (X) years, a quarterback is either “franchise” or turns into a pumpkin Pumpkins don’t have arms Ergo, pumpkins can’t throw Ergo, pumpkins can’t become “franchise” Ergo, after (X) years a quarterback can’t be “franchise” - QED Cue a zillion posts on a handful of pumpkins in NFL history. The problem is it’s a meaningless data sample. Most QBs prove themselves one way or another well before (X) years by : Being a high draft choice, so the team has to validate their investment Injuries giving the QB a chance The team's QB situation is such a mess everyone’s in the running None of these apply to Taylor. Flacco never missed a game for injury all the years TT played there. And Joe's the city’s idol, a Super Bowl hero, the face of the team, and a "franchise quarterback". Also : Joe may run hot & cold, but there’s always been enough ups to keep the team hooked. There was never any chance Taylor would start there. As for the magical (X) number, it’s meaningless in & of itself. It’s good for a QB to sit on the bench a while – with some it’s probably essential – but I imagine there are diminishing returns. TT’s professional growth from Year Three to Four was probably a fraction of what it was from One to Two. A quarterback has to play. Likewise, I imagine most of a QB’s growth comes in the first three years of starting. This year will be interesting……. thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) How long until this one gets shutdown? It certainly deserves it. But IMHO the mods have designated it as the sort of off-to-the-side place to isolate some of the weirder Tyrod fanatics and genuine haters. Oh the irony... And Gunner... are you sure you don't want to see a picture of me in argyle socks, a poka dot bowtie... and nothing else? Edited August 10, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 It certainly deserves it. But IMHO the mods have designated it as the sort of off-to-the-side place to isolate some of the weirder Tyrod fanatics and genuine haters. question. since you find yourself here off to the side, quite a bit I may add, where do you place yourself here in isolation? "the weirder tyrod fanatics" or the "genuine hater"? surely it says you must have as much obsession with the discussion as well as others or you wouldn't be here...just an observation, from the other side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I'm lost - what's everyone arguing about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I'm lost - what's everyone arguing about? Two things : Whether a magical formula conclusively determines the maximum degree of skill Taylor is capable of, based on how long he was a back-up. This formula is so scientific it will "prove" what no one has been able to agree on looking at TT's two seasons starting real games. Whether individual posters are "haters" or "fanatics" or "cultists" - and if they merit censor by our moderator overlords Heck, at this point I'd even welcome the chance to get back to the whole "throwing receivers open" brouhaha. Edited August 10, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Meanwhile Taylor is the starting QB. Our two protagonists, or antagonists, each are guilty of the same thing for which they accuse the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I'm lost - what's everyone arguing about? Who's got the biggest yard stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Who's got the biggest yard stick. (raises hand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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