Thurman#1 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) Tyrod isn't going to become a franchise Quarterback so this 6th year vs 7th year vs 4th year whatever it might be is irrelevant. That does not mean I think he is terrible or that he can't take the Bills to the playoffs or anything like that. This transplant vs thurman thing is the problem with the debate it has to be absolutes. You either have to believe he can become a franchise Quarterback or you have to hate him. Nothing has changed since the start of this thread. Neither of these absolutes is true. Almost everyone here is somewhere in the middle on him. Agreed that he's unlikely to become a franchise QB. If that's what happens, he will be yet another QB who never proved himself a franchise QB by the end of his sixth year and then never did later. But you're wrong, I don't hate the guy. He's obviously a very hard worker and a smart guy, and it would be by far the best thing for the Bills if he became a franchise QB. I'd love to see that. It's just that like you, I don't think it'll happen. If it was going to we'd have started to see it, and we haven't. Nobody has to believe what I say about six years, but history shows only one guy has ever not been a franchise QB by his sixth year and then later gone on to become one. Transplant wants to pretend that Tyrod is a deeply unique case and therefore an exception. He's not. There've been thousands of QBs who've played in the NFL, and his narrative, started off not playing for several seasons then got a chance to start for a significant period of time, is a reasonably common career arc. Edited August 8, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 LMAO @MatthewFairburn Tyrod Taylor just went 6-for-7 for 70 yards including a 20-yard TD to Charles Clay in a two-minute drill. Tyrod yelled "write about that!" ROTFL I guess Taylor won't be offering Mike Rodak an "exclusive" any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 ROTFL I guess Taylor won't be offering Mike Rodak an "exclusive" any time soon Sure he will, but it'll be off the record with a few choice words to suggest where he should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 @ChrisBrownBills Tyrod: feels internal clock is good right now. Feels he's ironed out the hitches before throwing. #Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Hey, it's only his 3rd year starting and 2nd year as "the guy" getting all the reps. Maybe he still has room to grow. I hope so, because then we will be good this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Agreed that he's unlikely to become a franchise QB. If that's what happens, he will be yet another QB who never proved himself a franchise QB by the end of his sixth year and then never did later. But you're wrong, I don't hate the guy. He's obviously a very hard worker and a smart guy, and it would be by far the best thing for the Bills if he became a franchise QB. I'd love to see that. It's just that like you, I don't think it'll happen. If it was going to we'd have started to see it, and we haven't. Nobody has to believe what I say about six years, but history shows only one guy has ever not been a franchise QB by his sixth year and then later gone on to become one. Transplant wants to pretend that Tyrod is a deeply unique case and therefore an exception. He's not. There've been thousands of QBs who've played in the NFL, and his narrative, started off not playing for several seasons then got a chance to start for a significant period of time, is a reasonably common career arc. Discounting the middle of the road posters regarding Taylor, the difference between the posters who believe Taylor could turn the corner and become a franchise QB versus those who don't think he has any shot is simple. Most of the ones who don't think Taylor can make it won't/can't acknowledge that he does have positive qualities and that his positive accomplishments, for the most part, are not due to his skill. They down play how his scrambling ability as a total negative even though he's eluded quite a few sacks and can extend plays....and that he has ZERO to do with the success of the running game just to name a few. On the flip side, I would say the majority of those who believe Taylor has performed decently well thus far and has a shot at becoming a franchise QB feel Taylor does, in fact, have limitations to this point and that he hasn't proven himself as the long term answer in Buffalo (up to this point). Sure there are a few posters who may be a little ahead of themselves but again, the vast majority of those who support Taylor acknowledge his short comings and understand he earned this year but also has to take a big step this year to prove himself on the field (ie. generate wins). I've watched Taylor going back to his days at Hampton High School when he was forced to play as a freshman (on the varsity) when the starter got injured.....to his initial days at Virginia Tech when he wasn't afforded a red shirt year because he was the best option and could handle the pressure. He has evolved, over those years, a great deal. What hasn't changed is his work ethic and dedication to his team. He was raised the right way and has never taken anything for granted. And while he'll ultimately be judged by the wins he helps put on the board (which is totally fair and part of the business), for the life of me, I don't understand some of the blatant disdain for such a respectful young man that takes place on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) I am a smart guy, Trannie. That's why I know when someone's hiding something. See, folks? Told you he wouldn't give those times (Post 1150, above). He doesn't want any of this repeated. Pretty obvious why, too. He says, "By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those [111] passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field." But he isn't anywhere near confident of those numbers. So if you actually do want to check it yourself as he suggests, he is going to be as obstructive as possible and not tell you what plays he's talking about. Not hiding anything at all, you have the seven games. Just go watch all the passes from those games and see if you come out with the same numbers as me. And if you don't, we can have a discussion. Just tell me the game, down and distance, and targeted WR with outcome and I'm smart enough to figure out which play it was so we can further pursue this wonderful discussion Edited August 8, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Agreed that he's unlikely to become a franchise QB. If that's what happens, he will be yet another QB who never proved himself a franchise QB by the end of his sixth year and then never did later. But you're wrong, I don't hate the guy. He's obviously a very hard worker and a smart guy, and it would be by far the best thing for the Bills if he became a franchise QB. I'd love to see that. It's just that like you, I don't think it'll happen. If it was going to we'd have started to see it, and we haven't. Nobody has to believe what I say about six years, but history shows only one guy has ever not been a franchise QB by his sixth year and then later gone on to become one. Transplant wants to pretend that Tyrod is a deeply unique case and therefore an exception. He's not. There've been thousands of QBs who've played in the NFL, and his narrative, started off not playing for several seasons then got a chance to start for a significant period of time, is a reasonably common career arc. I'm the one that believes Taylor Taylor will become the next face of the franchise and you can compare his body of NFL work as a two year starter with many franchise QB's past or present and it will pass the test. I'm not sure why you or anyone else feels the need to limit Taylors capabilities of doing what he has already done throughout his career which is exceed expectations. Taylors first two seasons as an NFL starter had garbage for coaching with 2 OC's/ HC/whole regime sent packing. Taylor still remains... ...exceeding expectations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Discounting the middle of the road posters regarding Taylor, the difference between the posters who believe Taylor could turn the corner and become a franchise QB versus those who don't think he has any shot is simple. Most of the ones who don't think Taylor can make it won't/can't acknowledge that he does have positive qualities and that his positive accomplishments, for the most part, are not due to his skill. They down play how his scrambling ability as a total negative even though he's eluded quite a few sacks and can extend plays....and that he has ZERO to do with the success of the running game just to name a few. On the flip side, I would say the majority of those who believe Taylor has performed decently well thus far and has a shot at becoming a franchise QB feel Taylor does, in fact, have limitations to this point and that he hasn't proven himself as the long term answer in Buffalo (up to this point). Sure there are a few posters who may be a little ahead of themselves but again, the vast majority of those who support Taylor acknowledge his short comings and understand he earned this year but also has to take a big step this year to prove himself on the field (ie. generate wins). I've watched Taylor going back to his days at Hampton High School when he was forced to play as a freshman (on the varsity) when the starter got injured.....to his initial days at Virginia Tech when he wasn't afforded a red shirt year because he was the best option and could handle the pressure. He has evolved, over those years, a great deal. What hasn't changed is his work ethic and dedication to his team. He was raised the right way and has never taken anything for granted. And while he'll ultimately be judged by the wins he helps put on the board (which is totally fair and part of the business), for the life of me, I don't understand some of the blatant disdain for such a respectful young man that takes place on this board. Amen brother. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I'm the one that believes Taylor Taylor will become the next face of the franchise and you can compare his body of NFL work as a two year starter with many franchise QB's past or present and it will pass the test. I'm not sure why you or anyone else feels the need to limit Taylors capabilities of doing what he has already done throughout his career which is exceed expectations. Taylors first two seasons as an NFL starter had garbage for coaching with 2 OC's/ HC/whole regime sent packing. Taylor still remains... ...exceeding expectations... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Discounting the middle of the road posters regarding Taylor, the difference between the posters who believe Taylor could turn the corner and become a franchise QB versus those who don't think he has any shot is simple. Most of the ones who don't think Taylor can make it won't/can't acknowledge that he does have positive qualities and that his positive accomplishments, for the most part, are not due to his skill. They down play how his scrambling ability as a total negative even though he's eluded quite a few sacks and can extend plays....and that he has ZERO to do with the success of the running game just to name a few. On the flip side, I would say the majority of those who believe Taylor has performed decently well thus far and has a shot at becoming a franchise QB feel Taylor does, in fact, have limitations to this point and that he hasn't proven himself as the long term answer in Buffalo (up to this point). Sure there are a few posters who may be a little ahead of themselves but again, the vast majority of those who support Taylor acknowledge his short comings and understand he earned this year but also has to take a big step this year to prove himself on the field (ie. generate wins). I've watched Taylor going back to his days at Hampton High School when he was forced to play as a freshman (on the varsity) when the starter got injured.....to his initial days at Virginia Tech when he wasn't afforded a red shirt year because he was the best option and could handle the pressure. He has evolved, over those years, a great deal. What hasn't changed is his work ethic and dedication to his team. He was raised the right way and has never taken anything for granted. And while he'll ultimately be judged by the wins he helps put on the board (which is totally fair and part of the business), for the life of me, I don't understand some of the blatant disdain for such a respectful young man that takes place on this board. Great post. I too am amazed at the animosity from many of the folks here toward TT, as well as other players on the Buffalo Bills, such as, for example, Marquis Goodwin--a great athlete, good guy and (by all accounts) a really good teammate who was ruthlessly attacked and denigrated here for reasons that I can't fathom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Discounting the middle of the road posters regarding Taylor, the difference between the posters who believe Taylor could turn the corner and become a franchise QB versus those who don't think he has any shot is simple. Most of the ones who don't think Taylor can make it won't/can't acknowledge that he does have positive qualities and that his positive accomplishments, for the most part, are not due to his skill. They down play how his scrambling ability as a total negative even though he's eluded quite a few sacks and can extend plays....and that he has ZERO to do with the success of the running game just to name a few. On the flip side, I would say the majority of those who believe Taylor has performed decently well thus far and has a shot at becoming a franchise QB feel Taylor does, in fact, have limitations to this point and that he hasn't proven himself as the long term answer in Buffalo (up to this point). Sure there are a few posters who may be a little ahead of themselves but again, the vast majority of those who support Taylor acknowledge his short comings and understand he earned this year but also has to take a big step this year to prove himself on the field (ie. generate wins). I've watched Taylor going back to his days at Hampton High School when he was forced to play as a freshman (on the varsity) when the starter got injured.....to his initial days at Virginia Tech when he wasn't afforded a red shirt year because he was the best option and could handle the pressure. He has evolved, over those years, a great deal. What hasn't changed is his work ethic and dedication to his team. He was raised the right way and has never taken anything for granted. And while he'll ultimately be judged by the wins he helps put on the board (which is totally fair and part of the business), for the life of me, I don't understand some of the blatant disdain for such a respectful young man that takes place on this board. One of the best and truest posts of the offseason. Great stuff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) Discounting the middle of the road posters regarding Taylor, the difference between the posters who believe Taylor could turn the corner and become a franchise QB versus those who don't think he has any shot is simple. Most of the ones who don't think Taylor can make it won't/can't acknowledge that he does have positive qualities and that his positive accomplishments, for the most part, are not due to his skill. They down play how his scrambling ability as a total negative even though he's eluded quite a few sacks and can extend plays....and that he has ZERO to do with the success of the running game just to name a few. On the flip side, I would say the majority of those who believe Taylor has performed decently well thus far and has a shot at becoming a franchise QB feel Taylor does, in fact, have limitations to this point and that he hasn't proven himself as the long term answer in Buffalo (up to this point). Sure there are a few posters who may be a little ahead of themselves but again, the vast majority of those who support Taylor acknowledge his short comings and understand he earned this year but also has to take a big step this year to prove himself on the field (ie. generate wins). I've watched Taylor going back to his days at Hampton High School when he was forced to play as a freshman (on the varsity) when the starter got injured.....to his initial days at Virginia Tech when he wasn't afforded a red shirt year because he was the best option and could handle the pressure. He has evolved, over those years, a great deal. What hasn't changed is his work ethic and dedication to his team. He was raised the right way and has never taken anything for granted. And while he'll ultimately be judged by the wins he helps put on the board (which is totally fair and part of the business), for the life of me, I don't understand some of the blatant disdain for such a respectful young man that takes place on this board. Guilty as charged, however I do still view this as a make or break season from a Buffalo/franchise standpoint. What gives me the most confidence aside from what I consider elite skill set is the Tyrod Taylor wake up before the crack of dawn and get down to business work ethic. On the field Taylor is a fearless leader and leads by example. Class act off the field. I think McD gets it and intends on doing everything he can to make sure Tyrod Taylor succeeds in my humble opinion. I'm a Billiever... Edited August 8, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 That's the point, it pretty much is a magic number. In all of NFL history, there's been exactly one guy - one - who wasn't a franchise QB by his sixth year and then went on to become one later. Rich Gannon. Other than that, history shows that if you're going to become one, you will manage it by your sixth year. And yeah, that includes guys who didn't start for a lot of their early careers. The ones who would succeed did it by their sixth year. It kinda is magic. Fine Thurm, keep running with your arbitrary numbers without even acknowledging Taylor saw less playing time than any single QB from your list save Shaun Hill and that Taylor played at a much higher level for his first 30 starts than any of those guys from your list save Rodgers and Romo. Keep ignoring the fact that 8 guys on your own list took nearly or more than a full seasons worth of snaps and had at least a season's worth of pass attempts. And that 4 of those 8 guys had about 2 season's worth or more. And that of the guys who were left, you came up with 5 guys (Hill, Huard, Holcomb, Fiedler, Wallace) who were either just not good or so inconsistent and up and down that it was pretty obvious out the gate that they were likely no better than good backups. And you're left with Rodgers and Romo who became franchise QBs (but also had significantly more pass attempts by the end of year 4, especially Rodgers) and then Garrard, Beurline, and Schaub who all were good enough to at least stick around the league as starters because there were some questions about whether they were franchise QBs or could be because they all played at that level for a relatively significant period of time. However, even the 3 of those QBs had at least a season's worth of pass attempts by the end of their 4th year. Beurline had 2 season's worth. Taylor had 35 pass attempts. He didn't see any significant live in-game action to really develop on the field with bullets flying, and you listen to or read interviews from ANY NFL QB past or present and they say time and time and time again that on field experience with bullets flying is the best way for a QB to learn, by far. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing (which is what we're doing right now), then whatever. But if you're so blinded as to see the fact that NFL QBs simply don't sit on the bench for the vast majority of their rookie contract and follow it up with winning the starting QB job in an open competition and then playing at even a consistently average NFL QB level for an extended period of time immediately starting their starting QB playing career. For that reason, your 6th year rules for Taylor don't apply here or, at least, are poised to be broken by a QB who's already been breaking rules for "things that just don't happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Hey, it's only his 3rd year starting and 2nd year as "the guy" getting all the reps. Maybe he still has room to grow. I hope so, because then we will be good this season. ......would be nice....but another thread highlighted Dennison's comments about TT "trusting and spotting his receivers".....3rd year starting yes, but seven in the league.....not sure if overcoming that inhibition and hesitancy is teachable......EJ woefully failed at it.........kid was more like Chuck Knoblach........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) Other than that, he's an example of a common group, guys who didn't play much early then started a couple of years and weren't good enough to show themselves as franchise guys before their sixth year. I mean, sure, everybody's unique if you dig enough. He's the only guy who didn't start in his first four years and then was traded and then won the starting job in a Northeastern industrial city and threw 865 passes in four years at Virginia Tech and has the letter "Y" in both his first and last name. Yup, he's totally unique and all you have to do is go to ridiculous lengths to show it. Draw enough distinctions and everybody's in a group of one. Beside the point, though. The point is nobody's ever become a franchise QB after failing to do so for his first six years in the league. Excepting Rich Gannon. Bills burning question: What more does Taylor have to prove? He's a franchise QB https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-burning-question-what-more-does-taylor-have-to-prove-hes-a-franchise-qb/ Well, Thurm, some would disagree with you, apparently I don't agree with the article that he's proven he's a franchise QB. I still think he has a chance. We should have that answer at the end of this season. Edited August 8, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 ......would be nice....but another thread highlighted Dennison's comments about TT "trusting and spotting his receivers".....3rd year starting yes, but seven in the league.....not sure if overcoming that inhibition and hesitancy is teachable......EJ woefully failed at it.........kid was more like Chuck Knoblach........... Its called a learning curve my friend, Once upon a time QB's progressed along a 3 year ( starting time frame) before the game begins to slow down and everything a QB has learned kicks in. One or two have early success and now everyone is supposed to hit the field running. In the real world nothing has changed including the average amount of time it takes a young QB prospect to adjust to the NFL in my humble opinion AFL, and no, sitting on a bench doesn't help much, not IMO. Throwing with anticipation takes time and practice throwing in the same system to the same play makers. Myself personally, Taylor has already begun to show good chemistry with Clay and Watkins. Boldin is key ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Lol Another incredible contribution from Crusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) Another incredible contribution from Crusher exceeding expectations,lol Awww come on man! (In Crushers defense my post is kinda funny) Edited August 8, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 now that we signed Boldin, i'm guessing there are no more excuses. well, there is always the turf toe one i guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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