The Tyrod Taylor Question

[Bangarang]

Isn't that the point John was making?

Do you honestly think I'm referring to that specific point? Do you like arguing that much that you really can't agree that there has been cherry picking by both sides and not exclusively in this thread?

[BuffaloHokie13]

This would mean the Bills have a truly balanced attack. Scoring with the pass and the run.

 

As I said I tries to pick a reasonable number.

 

8 more passing TDs than last year. That's 1 additional passing TD every 2 games.

Yeah I looked again, and it seems like last year was a down year. I feel like expecting top 3-6 is a bit unreasonable, but in 2015 there were like 12 QBs with 30+ (14 on pace, but ultimately injured). Rescinded! It will likely mean less TDs for shady though, unless he's catching them.

[John from Riverside]

Do you honestly think I'm referring to that specific point? Do you like arguing that much that you really can't agree that there has been cherry picking by both sides and not exclusively in this thread?

To be honest although Transplant makes a great point it was not actually MY point so bang is correct here (I do try to be honest)

 

My point is.....when referring to the "Offense" there is more then one aspect to it.....and while passing was down running was extremely good. I would also point out that tyrod is also a big part of the RUNNING offense based on both his designed runs, running touchdowns, and the threat of run which causes teams to not pin their ears back and go after him and lose contain.

 

There are aspects of the passing part of the offense that need to improve.

[3rdand12]

Easily explained.

 

He played in a simplistic offense that only required easy throws to open guys...mostly outside the hashes with the occasional deep ball mixed in. Roman and Lynn knew his weaknesses and masked them by not having him have to make those throws...that's why we have the low attempts to certain areas of the field.

 

Taylor's numbers have always been a product of an offense that was built on a dominant run game with low attempts that are simple and generally routine in nature. Other QB's have put up lesser numbers, but they are asked to do more within their offense.

 

Glad I could clear that up for ya

I was going to respond that you had a reasonable point or two there.

If ya just woulda' left the last sentence out.

 

It might well be true that the Offense was designed to make the best use of Tyrod as Roman saw it.

 

It might also be true that it was Romans Offense Tyrod was trying to play within.

Usually these thing meet in the middle somewhere.

 

But I really feel Dennison is going to ask Taylor to throw to a spot and trust the receiver to get the ball.

This is what i meant as make or break season.

so the line falls for argument at , Can He throw that ball.

He has done it for Sammy. We have seen he trusts Watkins to go get it.

so it can be done

 

[transplantbillsfan]

For me it's about pinpoint accuracy. Tyrod hasn't shown to be a guy that consistently hits guys in stride for YAC. He has proven to be a playmaker. When the jailbreak happens he makes plays with his arm and legs. There are some other good QBs that are good in that situation.

I like that you bring this point up. I actually feel like the timing West Coast offense will work really well for Taylor. I think when he has A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will only A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will help him rather than hurt him. help him rather than hurt him.

 

Somewhere in this thread, another poster posted a link to a WGR interview of Cian Fahey talking specifically about Taylor for about 14 minutes. One of his points about the whole YAC thing was that Taylor threw the ball down the field a lot more than the majority of NFL QBs (7th highest Average Depth of Throw) and that, in general, any NFL QB throwing deeper throws will be less likely to get YAC out of those throws. And he also points out that Taylor's accuracy percentage (% of "catchable balls" vs "uncatchable balls") was still the ninth highest in the NFL (76.02%). In his catalog, he actually breaks down the accuracy of each QB in specific ranges: behind the LOS, 1 to 5 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 11 to 15 yards, 16 to 20 yards, 21+ yards. Two out of Taylor's three most accurate ranges were the parts of the field that I think will be the focus in the West Coast offense. He was the ninth most accurate quarterback in the 6 to 10 range. He was the eighth most accurate quarterback in the 11 to 15 range. As you might guess, the other category he ranked highly in was the 21+ range, where he was ninth.

 

 

I've brought this up before, but I really think you saw this when Lynn took over last year. Lots of plays designed even over the middle in that 6 to 15 range. To me, that's the bread-and-butter of the West Coast offense.

 

The general criticism that Taylor was the reason that the Bills were so poor in YAC because he doesn't put the ball in places where WRs can gain any extra yardage is questionable, at best.

 

A few months ago when this issue came up, I started with the plan to do the whole season, but after doing the first 3 games and realizing time was an issue (wish I had more of it), I decided to jump to what I thought was his worst 4 game stretch. What I did was just rewatch the completions for ball placement to see how many of his completions were poorly placed and left yardage on the field. This is more about ball placement than accuracy, something Fahey said he's not looking at as he's just looking for "catchable balls"... and yes, I think the 2 should be examined separately because accuracy would include all those incompletions. But there seems to be this general belief by some that Taylor's WRs were somehow always bailing him out and that Taylor is responsible for leaving yards on the field.

 

Well, in those 7 games (BALT, NYJ, ARI, CIN, JAX, OAK, PITT), Taylor completed 111 passes.

 

By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field.

 

1- A high pass to Clay on 3rd down in the Ravens game

2- A 3rd down pass to Woods in the Ravens game

3- A 2nd down pass to Goodwin in the Cardinals game

4- A 1st down pass that was low to a wide open Woods on the sideline in the Cardinals game

5- A 3rd down and 1 to Harvin in the Bengals game that was a little behind him... he was gonna get clobbered, anyway.

6- A 1st down pass to Clay that was a little behind him in the middle and really didn't have much chance for YAC... in fact, the chance for that YAC may have been to the middle, where the ball was thrown.

7- A 3rd down pass to Goodwin around the sideline that was a 1st down conversion, anyway

[3rdand12]

 

 

 

It's not a mistake that more than one defense came in last year saying "Make him be a quarterback." The defense DOES load up against the run and try and take it away. They can't, because the run offense was simply terrific. Even when they play eight in the box, the run game is simply not stopped.

 

And yes the Bills scored a lot. Again, mostly the run game. 17 passing touchdowns last year, which was 27th in the league. That ain't good. Whereas the run game had 29 TDs, 1st in the league, and by a wide margin. The second team scored nearly 20% less, the Cowboys with 24 and the third and fourth teams in the league tied at 20. In other words they had almost a third more TDs than the two teams tied for third place. The run game was terrific.

 

29 running TDs and 17 passing TDs. Which is outright bizarre, because not a single other team scored more running TDs than they did passing TDs, while we scored more than half again as many run TDs as passing TDs.

 

"Make him be a quarterback." That's the game plan these days. They try to take away the run, and last year the run game was so good the defenses just couldn't do it.

This is a great post. We heard many times last season about other teams quoted as "making him play QB" and it was picked up by media for abit. That was how they would shut us down.

 

for those that critique Lynn with O playcalling. He did a pretty nice job taking over.

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

I like that you bring this point up. I actually feel like the timing West Coast offense will work really well for Taylor. I think when he has A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will only A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will help him rather than hurt him. help him rather than hurt him.

Somewhere in this thread, another poster posted a link to a WGR interview of Cian Fahey talking specifically about Taylor for about 14 minutes. One of his points about the whole YAC thing was that Taylor threw the ball down the field a lot more than the majority of NFL QBs (7th highest Average Depth of Throw) and that, in general, any NFL QB throwing deeper throws will be less likely to get YAC out of those throws. And he also points out that Taylor's accuracy percentage (% of "catchable balls" vs "uncatchable balls") was still the ninth highest in the NFL (76.02%). In his catalog, he actually breaks down the accuracy of each QB in specific ranges: behind the LOS, 1 to 5 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 11 to 15 yards, 16 to 20 yards, 21+ yards. Two out of Taylor's three most accurate ranges were the parts of the field that I think will be the focus in the West Coast offense. He was the ninth most accurate quarterback in the 6 to 10 range. He was the eighth most accurate quarterback in the 11 to 15 range. As you might guess, the other category he ranked highly in was the 21+ range, where he was ninth.

I've brought this up before, but I really think you saw this when Lynn took over last year. Lots of plays designed even over the middle in that 6 to 15 range. To me, that's the bread-and-butter of the West Coast offense.

The general criticism that Taylor was the reason that the Bills were so poor in YAC because he doesn't put the ball in places where WRs can gain any extra yardage is questionable, at best.

A few months ago when this issue came up, I started with the plan to do the whole season, but after doing the first 3 games and realizing time was an issue (wish I had more of it), I decided to jump to what I thought was his worst 4 game stretch. What I did was just rewatch the completions for ball placement to see how many of his completions were poorly placed and left yardage on the field. This is more about ball placement than accuracy, something Fahey said he's not looking at as he's just looking for "catchable balls"... and yes, I think the 2 should be examined separately because accuracy would include all those incompletions. But there seems to be this general belief by some that Taylor's WRs were somehow always bailing him out and that Taylor is responsible for leaving yards on the field.

Well, in those 7 games (BALT, NYJ, ARI, CIN, JAX, OAK, PITT), Taylor completed 111 passes.

By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field.

1- A high pass to Clay on 3rd down in the Ravens game

2- A 3rd down pass to Woods in the Ravens game

3- A 2nd down pass to Goodwin in the Cardinals game

4- A 1st down pass that was low to a wide open Woods on the sideline in the Cardinals game

5- A 3rd down and 1 to Harvin in the Bengals game that was a little behind him... he was gonna get clobbered, anyway.

6- A 1st down pass to Clay that was a little behind him in the middle and really didn't have much chance for YAC... in fact, the chance for that YAC may have been to the middle, where the ball was thrown.

7- A 3rd down pass to Goodwin around the sideline that was a 1st down conversion, anyway

 

That's good analysis there

[3rdand12]

I like that you bring this point up. I actually feel like the timing West Coast offense will work really well for Taylor. I think when he has A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will only A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will help him rather than hurt him. help him rather than hurt him.

 

Somewhere in this thread, another poster posted a link to a WGR interview of Cian Fahey talking specifically about Taylor for about 14 minutes. One of his points about the whole YAC thing was that Taylor threw the ball down the field a lot more than the majority of NFL QBs (7th highest Average Depth of Throw) and that, in general, any NFL QB throwing deeper throws will be less likely to get YAC out of those throws. And he also points out that Taylor's accuracy percentage (% of "catchable balls" vs "uncatchable balls") was still the ninth highest in the NFL (76.02%). In his catalog, he actually breaks down the accuracy of each QB in specific ranges: behind the LOS, 1 to 5 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 11 to 15 yards, 16 to 20 yards, 21+ yards. Two out of Taylor's three most accurate ranges were the parts of the field that I think will be the focus in the West Coast offense. He was the ninth most accurate quarterback in the 6 to 10 range. He was the eighth most accurate quarterback in the 11 to 15 range. As you might guess, the other category he ranked highly in was the 21+ range, where he was ninth.

 

 

I've brought this up before, but I really think you saw this when Lynn took over last year. Lots of plays designed even over the middle in that 6 to 15 range. To me, that's the bread-and-butter of the West Coast offense.

 

The general criticism that Taylor was the reason that the Bills were so poor in YAC because he doesn't put the ball in places where WRs can gain any extra yardage is questionable, at best.

 

A few months ago when this issue came up, I started with the plan to do the whole season, but after doing the first 3 games and realizing time was an issue (wish I had more of it), I decided to jump to what I thought was his worst 4 game stretch. What I did was just rewatch the completions for ball placement to see how many of his completions were poorly placed and left yardage on the field. This is more about ball placement than accuracy, something Fahey said he's not looking at as he's just looking for "catchable balls"... and yes, I think the 2 should be examined separately because accuracy would include all those incompletions. But there seems to be this general belief by some that Taylor's WRs were somehow always bailing him out and that Taylor is responsible for leaving yards on the field.

 

Well, in those 7 games (BALT, NYJ, ARI, CIN, JAX, OAK, PITT), Taylor completed 111 passes.

 

By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field.

 

1- A high pass to Clay on 3rd down in the Ravens game

2- A 3rd down pass to Woods in the Ravens game

3- A 2nd down pass to Goodwin in the Cardinals game

4- A 1st down pass that was low to a wide open Woods on the sideline in the Cardinals game

5- A 3rd down and 1 to Harvin in the Bengals game that was a little behind him... he was gonna get clobbered, anyway.

6- A 1st down pass to Clay that was a little behind him in the middle and really didn't have much chance for YAC... in fact, the chance for that YAC may have been to the middle, where the ball was thrown.

7- A 3rd down pass to Goodwin around the sideline that was a 1st down conversion, anyway

well done !

[Rocky Landing]

I like that you bring this point up. I actually feel like the timing West Coast offense will work really well for Taylor. I think when he has A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will only A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will help him rather than hurt him. help him rather than hurt him.

 

Somewhere in this thread, another poster posted a link to a WGR interview of Cian Fahey talking specifically about Taylor for about 14 minutes. One of his points about the whole YAC thing was that Taylor threw the ball down the field a lot more than the majority of NFL QBs (7th highest Average Depth of Throw) and that, in general, any NFL QB throwing deeper throws will be less likely to get YAC out of those throws. And he also points out that Taylor's accuracy percentage (% of "catchable balls" vs "uncatchable balls") was still the ninth highest in the NFL (76.02%). In his catalog, he actually breaks down the accuracy of each QB in specific ranges: behind the LOS, 1 to 5 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 11 to 15 yards, 16 to 20 yards, 21+ yards. Two out of Taylor's three most accurate ranges were the parts of the field that I think will be the focus in the West Coast offense. He was the ninth most accurate quarterback in the 6 to 10 range. He was the eighth most accurate quarterback in the 11 to 15 range. As you might guess, the other category he ranked highly in was the 21+ range, where he was ninth.

 

 

I've brought this up before, but I really think you saw this when Lynn took over last year. Lots of plays designed even over the middle in that 6 to 15 range. To me, that's the bread-and-butter of the West Coast offense.

 

The general criticism that Taylor was the reason that the Bills were so poor in YAC because he doesn't put the ball in places where WRs can gain any extra yardage is questionable, at best.

 

A few months ago when this issue came up, I started with the plan to do the whole season, but after doing the first 3 games and realizing time was an issue (wish I had more of it), I decided to jump to what I thought was his worst 4 game stretch. What I did was just rewatch the completions for ball placement to see how many of his completions were poorly placed and left yardage on the field. This is more about ball placement than accuracy, something Fahey said he's not looking at as he's just looking for "catchable balls"... and yes, I think the 2 should be examined separately because accuracy would include all those incompletions. But there seems to be this general belief by some that Taylor's WRs were somehow always bailing him out and that Taylor is responsible for leaving yards on the field.

 

Well, in those 7 games (BALT, NYJ, ARI, CIN, JAX, OAK, PITT), Taylor completed 111 passes.

 

By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field.

 

1- A high pass to Clay on 3rd down in the Ravens game

2- A 3rd down pass to Woods in the Ravens game

3- A 2nd down pass to Goodwin in the Cardinals game

4- A 1st down pass that was low to a wide open Woods on the sideline in the Cardinals game

5- A 3rd down and 1 to Harvin in the Bengals game that was a little behind him... he was gonna get clobbered, anyway.

6- A 1st down pass to Clay that was a little behind him in the middle and really didn't have much chance for YAC... in fact, the chance for that YAC may have been to the middle, where the ball was thrown.

7- A 3rd down pass to Goodwin around the sideline that was a 1st down conversion, anyway

Interesting stuff!

[reddogblitz]

For me it's about pinpoint accuracy. Tyrod hasn't shown to be a guy that consistently hits guys in stride for YAC. He has proven to be a playmaker. When the jailbreak happens he makes plays with his arm and legs. There are some other good QBs that are good in that situation.

How do we know that Hotrod can't hit quick timing routes?

 

I did see him throw some effectively last year, but most of the time he either held onto it reading the D too long or throwing it to guys that were standing still. The plan seemed to be suck them in with the run game and throw over the top. Not a bad strategy btw.

 

I think short timing routes without him having to read or think too much may be a good thing. I think he can throw well enough for that.

[major]

Before you run down tyrod, remember that there aren't a lot of good qb's in the NFL. Case in point, Miami interviewing tebow and then signing cutler. I'll admit that tyrod is a poor man's Michael Vick. Which means I'm a poor man

[Rocky Landing]

Before you run down tyrod, remember that there aren't a lot of good qb's in the NFL. Case in point, Miami interviewing tebow and then signing cutler. I'll admit that tyrod is a poor man's Michael Vick. Which means I'm a poor man

Screw that. Michael Vick is a poor man's Tyrod Taylor.

[Maury Ballstein]

Screw that. Michael Vick is a poor man's Tyrod Taylor.

if you ignore record books and playoff appearances sure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Those guys were both considered accurate, efficient QBs coming out. That's why they were both picked 1st overall. It didn't always work out that way but that's who those guys are. They were in bad situations but always had those skills.

 

At camp it felt like the running plays were slow developing. The Bills running game was ELITE. They had a higher ypc than any team in like 20 years. It doesn't necessarily mean that the running game will be bad but I expect them to regress. Will the improved passing game offset the running game regression? I hope so.

 

Kirby, I don't follow college football much but I thought Bradford was regarded as a bit of a question mark?

"As a junior he only threw 69 passes and was constantly pressured while he was in the game.

Bradford is as good as a top five pick. But his durability concerns might push him out of the top 10. He's by far the biggest question mark heading into the 2010 NFL Draft."

I can't find links but I can remember some back-and-forth in the local St Louis press when he was drafted. Some were all "yea, Saviour!" others were "Rams bet the farm on a guy who had 1 good year"

 

Anyway certainly I agree their draft status as top picks is very different than TT, my point was just that once they were in the league, they weren't "all that and a bag of chips" for a time.

 

Thanks for explaining your take on the run game

[Augie]

THAT is a thread in it's own. Who would you prefer, Tyrod or Vick? Vick was the talk of the league, but I'd take Tyrod.

[John from Riverside]

if you ignore record books and playoff appearances sure.

wins and losses is a team stat

 

Although I think TT does need to improve on a couple of things to be in the Mike Vick (young Mike Vick before he went to prison) category

[billsfan89]

I think Tyrod is a lower mid level to mid level NFL QB. I believe there is some room for growth being that he has only been a starter for two full seasons. But at best he in my opinion only projects to be an above average QB at best. I just don't see him being a top 10 QB in his career.

 

That being said you can win with even an average QB. The talent at Quarterback in the league is in a state where having one that is mid level is a modest advantage if you are paying him for the right type of contract. A mid level QB on an affordable contract or even a good value contract is something that teams can win with if the rest of the team is stacked (Which with fewer dollars and draft picks dedicated to the QB position makes it easier to build up the rest of the roster.)

 

I like Tyrod since the Bills have him on an affordable contract and I do think the team is in a good position with him. At worst he allows the Bills to compete while picking their spots to bring on a higher potential QB. At best he develops a bit more and the team can build the roster around him for more serious contention.

[Rocky Landing]

if you ignore record books and playoff appearances sure.

And prison sentences...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Yeah I looked again, and it seems like last year was a down year. I feel like expecting top 3-6 is a bit unreasonable, but in 2015 there were like 12 QBs with 30+ (14 on pace, but ultimately injured). Rescinded! It will likely mean less TDs for shady though, unless he's catching them.

True, but I buy into the mantra if you can stop the run you can stop the Bills. That's why I think an effective passing game will help in the red zone.

[Scott7975]

True, but I buy into the mantra if you can stop the run you can stop the Bills. That's why I think an effective passing game will help in the red zone.

Getting to the red zone I would say. We were 7th in red zone scoring last year.